About Faith...

Sunstone · Oct 18, 2019

(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

_________________________
And now, some fun...

JJ50 · Oct 18, 2019

I don't believe in the word 'faith'.

TransmutingSoul · Oct 18, 2019

Neither and no.

Regards Tony

Shadow Wolf · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
New (1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

?
(the question mark is my reply to how I'd describe myself in that regard)

Sunstone said:
(a) I have faith in god.

Sunstone said:
(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

Those two are very different. Or at least to me. God is entirely a matter of faith. However, I can reasonably assume my car will start tomorrow because it started today and everything is in proper working order and condition. God is unknowable. I know that unless something happens, my car is very likely to start tomorrow.

Skwim · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

Agnostic.

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

Faith, meaning trust, it can function the same way in all.

.

wizanda · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
How would you describe yourself religiously?

Groovy - like always down the Middle Line.

Sunstone said:
(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."
(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

Both sentences apply: my mind is well coordinated on what it believes and why, to the point I'd apply the trust in my heart logically into something from my brain, that has been thoroughly tested to be trustworthy.

Sunstone said:
(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

Faith meant to trust; until Pauline Christianity influenced us to believe in "the faith" which is a religious belief or even a cult mentality, not a trust in our own convictions.

Thus slowly the language has become bastardized where 'faith' can mean a 'religious belief', and it didn't mean that originally in the language; so even the reading of religious texts have become cult like, where everyone now plays follow the leader.

Anything we practise we can gain trust within, and really our faith should be likewise; thus in your questions, it depends on what we've seen in previous encounters, to what equation of trust we apply to each.

If the car always breaks down, it will have a low rating of trust like political leaders.

In my opinion.

Stevicus · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

_________________________
And now, some fun...

I look at "faith" as being somewhat synonymous with "hope."

I hope there's a God.
I hope my car will start tomorrow.
I hope my team wins the big game.

Mock Turtle · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

Irreligious mainly with a touch of agnosticism as to any creative force in the universe.

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

A bit of both actually, since most religious people probably have varying amounts of each.

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

No.

(a) I have faith in god.

Meaning the usual sense often applied to religious beliefs, and which generally doesn't apply to all others. Such as:

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

I might believe and trust that they are competent, have the same views as myself, and will try to project these views - but of course I don't and generally see them all as lying ********! No faith ever enters into this arena!

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

Being an ex-engineer, and having tinkered with the innards of several cars, I generally know if this will occur - so no faith involved. And hopefully I will not have let my battery run down or have any other problems to make this not so. Such that experience and knowledge is what is important here rather than faith.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

Experience tells me that the probability is exceptionally high that this will happen so faith is not an issue.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

More hope (and possibly some knowledge) over faith - just the word used wrongly more than anything.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

Who needs friends when one has Sunstone.

Rival · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

Fundamentalist put-all-my-trust-in-Heaven-doesn't-care-what-you-think and could't drop G-d belief if I tried. Prepared to argue with G-d over stuff.

Sunstone said:
(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."
(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

Both. Trust requires my belief in this thing in which I'm trusting and faith in the belief.

Sunstone said:
(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

Yes.

lewisnotmiller · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

I used to say I'm as religious as concrete, but pantheists mistakenly thought I was one of them. To clarify, I'm not religious.

Sunstone said:
(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

A) seems to fit better with what I've seen from my Christian friends.

Sunstone said:
(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

Pretty much. I'd generally use the word in association with positive outcomes, so (f) feels a little forced. Whether the faith is justified in each case is a different story.

Aupmanyav · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?
(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."
(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."
(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.
(b) I have faith in my political leaders.
(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.
(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.
(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.
(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

(1) See the description on right: I am an advaitist (non-dualist) Hindu pagan and a strong atheist.
(2) Question not meant for strong atheists.
(3) a. Not meant for strong atheists. b. I do have faith in my political leader. The present one is a boon to India. Honest, hard-working. c. I use the car infrequently, normally it is my son and daughter-in-law. He disposes the car as soon as it develops any serious problem. d. Fairly certain that the sun would rise tomorrow, I might or might not be there to witness it. That is what I have experienced in 77 years of my life. e. Win or loss is not all that important. If they tried, that is sufficient (I am talking about cricket, the most popular game in India). I appreciate good performance, be it friend or foe. f. Sunstone is a nice entertaining intelligent chap, makes Religious Forums more interesting. Nothing wrong with him.
And now, some fun ..: Sorry friend. I am Beethoven. Love Music but can't hear. Enjoyed music all my life, am sustained by those memories.

dybmh · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

I would not describe myself religiously. It's like oil and water.

I'm too much of a rebel. The idea of doing something repeatedly, consistently, correctly, for the rest of my life is not comforting. It sounds like hell to me. That's how I define religious. It's like taking medicine... religiously. Everyday. Without fail. Without consideration of whether is helps or harms.

Sunstone said:
(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."
(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

"belief"

Sunstone said:
(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

I vote: yes. Faith in each example communicates a desire for the unlikely outcome.

sealchan · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

_________________________
And now, some fun...

As I have long claimed...I have a believer on one shoulder and an atheist on the other.

I'm also a Gemini.

And words are tricksy.

Erebus · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

1. I usually just say Pagan and leave it at that. If I were to be more specific then I'd explain that I view the gods as being both natural forces coupled with various human concepts. Erebus is therefore both literal darkness and the concept of darkness, including the various associations make when people think of that concept.

2. I lean towards (b) myself but make allowances for the fact that quite a few people lean towards (a). Faith, along with god, is one of those words where it's best to find out what people mean on an individual basis.

3. Not really. I've already covered the fact that (a) can vary from person to person. As for the rest, it's important to remember that a definition constitutes only part of a word's meaning. People often undervalue both context and connotation.*

You might use (d) as a means of expressing that you don't hold a solipsistic worldview but still acknowledge that you can't necessarily claim absolute knowledge that an exterior reality exists. You might also use it as a means of equating faith in the sun rising with all other forms of faith, implying that every expression of faith is essentially equal.

Both (b) and (e) suggest trust rather than belief in something's existence. Rather than having faith that the politician/team exist, it's faith that their qualities are sufficient to achieve a desired result.

Finally, I'm going to come back to context for a moment and point out that a lot of these statements could be used ironically. For example, if somebody with an old, unreliable car says, "Yeah, I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning," it's entirely possible they mean the exact opposite.

*Example: Take the sentence, "homosexuality is not normal." Normal might refer to the fact that there are more people who aren't homosexual and therefore homosexuality isn't the norm. However, the word normal also carries connotations of what is right or proper and so describing something as not normal can often be a condemnation. Now imagine that sentence being used in both an academic setting and in a fundamentalist church. The context of where that sentence appears can change its meaning.

Jainarayan · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

A believer, rather firm and confident in my beliefs. I try to live my beliefs (Gods know I fail more than I succeed). I draw hope and comfort, even inspiration.

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

In my views "belief in" is pretty much the same as "trust in". I believe in God's existence, I also trust in him.

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

No, not at all. Only a, d, and f

are certainties.

9-10ths_Penguin · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

Non-religious.

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

Between those two, (a), but I would define "faith in God" as either:

Trust in God, period. Mainly trust that God will fulfill his promises.
Loyalty to God (i.e. faithfulness to God).

I think the use of the word "faith" to mean "belief without evidence" is a fairly recent change in response to a general lack of evidence for God.

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

No.

sun rise · Oct 18, 2019

1. Spiritual but not religious.

2. Faith is belief and should lead to trust.

3. There are nuances in the list.

savagewind · Oct 18, 2019

Sunstone said:
(1) How would you describe yourself religiously?

I am a nonreligious believer in God.

(2) Which of these two sentences comes closest to expressing how you yourself define "faith in god":

(a) "Faith is trust in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

(b) "Faith is belief in god in the absence of absolute or certain knowledge."

I think that the belief comes first and then the trust. I have had both.

(3) Does the word "faith" mean exactly the same thing in all six of the following sentences:

(a) I have faith in god.

Yes! I shall try to reserve all my faith for God alone. How about that?

(b) I have faith in my political leaders.

LOL

(c) I have faith my car will start tomorrow morning.

No!

(d) I have faith the sun will rise tomorrow morning.

A tough one. No because I may die tonight.

(e) I have faith my team will win the big game.

I don't have one.

(f) I have faith my incompetent friend, Sunstone, will screw up.

No! Not possible.

_________________________
And now, some fun...

Wonderful! Thank you.

About Faith...

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora

JJ50

Well-Known Member

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber

Skwim

Veteran Member

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts

Stevicus

Veteran Member

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!

Rival

se Dex me saut.

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש

sealchan

Well-Known Member

Erebus

Well-Known Member

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist

sun rise

The world is on fire

savagewind

Veteran Member