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Lawyers Are Merely the Extension of Trump's Will

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Trump is so unfit to hold office not only can he not organize the appointment of individuals to fill the roles of government, keep individuals in those positions because try as they might they cannot maintain a sense of integrity, cannot cooperate and negotiate even with his own party to accomplish any legislative goals, having run out of executive orders that circumvent the need to negotiate with Congress, Trump is now using personal attorneys to conduct foreign affairs. I suspect his number of golf games is also far greater than any other President before him.

This article anticipate the testimony that will be heard in Congress today of a diplomat whose work was basically circumvented by the use of a lawyer, who is merely the extension of Trump's will which is his own and not the will of any group of individuals within and without his administration.

Gordon Sondland deposition: Ambassador breaks with Trump testifying that the President directed diplomats to work with Giuliani on Ukraine - CNNPolitics

Trump's failure as President is such an archetypal example of what is wrong with an extreme, self-centered, competitive attitude (competition for its own sake) that we will most certainly see his name go down in ridicule and infamy for generations to come.

I thank you for hearing out my rant about Trump for the week.

Whether you cheer this or are gnashing your teeth, all sincere comments as welcome.

Substantive articles to backup any claims will also get my attention.
 

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
So you're saying the US political system is so bad people clearly unfit for office can be elected easily

Why bother voting at all?
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
The way I understand the rules is that once they vote all accusers, accusations, and evidence can be cross examined also there can be investigations into the accusers themselves, I may be wrong.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
So you're saying the US political system is so bad people clearly unfit for office can be elected easily

Why bother voting at all?

That is too simplistic of a way to look at this and that simplisticity yields exactly the wrong conclusion.

There are many, many people who treat government with the simple-mindedness of a caring parent who they want to follow the model of either a stern father or a nurturing mother. Then there are people that understand that government requires the participation of the governed...that at the end of the day for the government to act like adults with values it requires that the children hold them accountable actively and often.

A Democracy will deteriorate if its people become acquiescent or apathetic. If its people become more responsive to fear than to compassion, more focused on being right than listening to others. A Democracy embraces the conflict of differing opinions, of misunderstandings mutual or otherwise and allows grass roots movements to overcome those differences and misunderstandings so that our common humanity will be expressed more so than our relatively unimportant differences.

As with any natural system energy can get bottled up in separate regions causing a polarizing dynamic. But that polarizing dynamic, in a healthy system, will yield great creative new insight and effort that will provide a transcending effort to bring those separate regions back into a more coordinated dynamic.

As a member of a democracy one should find time to participate, to listen to representative's ideas, to express your own, to participate in physical or financial support of those ideas and, most especially, to cast your vote.

I will be the first to point out that one person's vote doesn't count for much. However, that vote doesn't just represent an individual's opinion, it also (should) represent an effort to understand one's self and one's fellow citizens and to show support for a process in which we the people are truly in charge. The more you get educated about the issues and participate your effort and energy in promoting your knowledge and the knowledge of others, the more value will be packed into that vote and the more likely that vote will sync with the vote of others of good will to direct our efforts as a nation forward toward solutions acceptable to all who choose to engage in our collective effort.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
The way I understand the rules is that once they vote all accusers, accusations, and evidence can be cross examined also there can be investigations into the accusers themselves, I may be wrong.

Ii suspect that the Impeachment process is as much about a marathon effort to create visibility into presidential dealings and that normally a president who is so under fire that his own party is becoming damaged as a result will feel compelled to step down...or not. It is really the people who vote, and there are many people who still back the president, and how that popular pressure acts on the representatives in Congress that will determine the outcome as much as anything. As infuriating as the Republicans lack of outrage regarding the ethical conduct of the president is, they are also actively responding to pressure from the people who put them in office. This is actually a healthy dynamic in our democracy.

What is not healthy, perhaps, is that on the side of Trump there seems to be a strong association of hate and ignorance regarding the threat that Others bring to our country. My feeling is that that isolationist and prejudicial attitude is on the wain and will continue to wain. But for whatever reason the dynamics of our polarized politics is such that that group has attained just enough consolidation and momentum to seize the reins at the highest level. How long this seizure will last will depend greatly on the stomach of the Trump supporters to see the chaos and damage to our nation that their chosen leader represents as not worth the focus on conservative issues he also represents.
 

joe1776

Well-Known Member
So you're saying the US political system is so bad people clearly unfit for office can be elected easily

Why bother voting at all?
I think the problem isn't confined to the US political system. The problem is that democratic elections are a poor way to select decision-makers for many reasons.

We are at the point in human history where we have begun to realize that we have a flawed system but we haven't a clue about how to solve it.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Trump is so unfit to hold office not only can he not organize the appointment of individuals to fill the roles of government, keep individuals in those positions because try as they might they cannot maintain a sense of integrity, cannot cooperate and negotiate even with his own party to accomplish any legislative goals, having run out of executive orders that circumvent the need to negotiate with Congress, Trump is now using personal attorneys to conduct foreign affairs. I suspect his number of golf games is also far greater than any other President before him.

This article anticipate the testimony that will be heard in Congress today of a diplomat whose work was basically circumvented by the use of a lawyer, who is merely the extension of Trump's will which is his own and not the will of any group of individuals within and without his administration.

Gordon Sondland deposition: Ambassador breaks with Trump testifying that the President directed diplomats to work with Giuliani on Ukraine - CNNPolitics

Trump's failure as President is such an archetypal example of what is wrong with an extreme, self-centered, competitive attitude (competition for its own sake) that we will most certainly see his name go down in ridicule and infamy for generations to come.

I thank you for hearing out my rant about Trump for the week.

Whether you cheer this or are gnashing your teeth, all sincere comments as welcome.

Substantive articles to backup any claims will also get my attention.
He's the most successful 'unfit' president I've ever seen!
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
So you're saying the US political system is so bad people clearly unfit for office can be elected easily

Why bother voting at all?
The cynical answer to why vote is so that we have the right to complain about the result.

The less cynical answer is that mistakes can be corrected through voting.

Another answer is that voting is the worst possible way of selecting good leaders except for all the others which produce despots, evil dictators and so forth.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Ii suspect that the Impeachment process is as much about a marathon effort to create visibility into presidential dealings and that normally a president who is so under fire that his own party is becoming damaged as a result will feel compelled to step down...or not

If you were accused of multiple things would you just throw up your hands and give up or would you want to have the opportunnity to question all accusers and put the evidence to the test? So far it has been a one way street but they will get their time in the near future.
-The Democrats have no real strong front runner
-The election is about a year away
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
If you were accused of multiple things would you just throw up your hands and give up or would you want to have the opportunnity to question all accusers and put the evidence to the test? So far it has been a one way street but they will get their time in the near future.
-The Democrats have no real strong front runner
-The election is about a year away

You would if you felt that you were part of a team and that you were doing damage to that team and that cause. I don't think Trump sees himself as in a society with which he must cooperate and unify. He sees himself as an authority with the power to act unilaterally against everyone. He seeks out confirmation from those who think the same way and who run countries which do not exhibit the qualities of an open and free democracy.

Scared U.S. citizens elected a dictator. Now it remains to be seen if those citizens come to fear the person that they elected or not. Time will tell.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
You would if you felt that you were part of a team and that you were doing damage to that team and that cause.

So if you were accused of multiple things and not had the chance yet to examine the evidence and question the witnesses you would give up and concede defeat if you thought the untested claims were hurting your team in the eyes of the crowd? It's not a middle school popularity contest for the weak, it's a question of what is and isn't facts at the end of the day and their time is coming soon. I think there will be more than a little room for reasonable doubt just like with the Russia investigation.

 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Trump is so unfit to hold office not only can he not organize the appointment of individuals to fill the roles of government, keep individuals in those positions because try as they might they cannot maintain a sense of integrity, cannot cooperate and negotiate even with his own party to accomplish any legislative goals, having run out of executive orders that circumvent the need to negotiate with Congress, Trump is now using personal attorneys to conduct foreign affairs. I suspect his number of golf games is also far greater than any other President before him.

This article anticipate the testimony that will be heard in Congress today of a diplomat whose work was basically circumvented by the use of a lawyer, who is merely the extension of Trump's will which is his own and not the will of any group of individuals within and without his administration.

Gordon Sondland deposition: Ambassador breaks with Trump testifying that the President directed diplomats to work with Giuliani on Ukraine - CNNPolitics

Trump's failure as President is such an archetypal example of what is wrong with an extreme, self-centered, competitive attitude (competition for its own sake) that we will most certainly see his name go down in ridicule and infamy for generations to come.

I thank you for hearing out my rant about Trump for the week.
I think an article relating to testimony that hasn´t occurred yet is not worth much. Lets wait till the democrats selectively leak what they think he said, then compare it to what he actually said if the people ever get a chance to see the transcripts.

A private citizen to act as a personal aid to the president in foreign policy is neither illegal or unprecedented.

The executive branch, headed by the president is responsible for foreign policy and has wide latitude to conduct it.


Whether you cheer this or are gnashing your teeth, all sincere comments as welcome.

Substantive articles to backup any claims will also get my attention.
 

Callisto

Hellenismos, BTW
I suspect his number of golf games is also far greater than any other President before him.

There is a website that tracks this very thing. While Trump frequently criticized Obama whenever he golfed, the number of times Obama did golf over the course of 8 years is 306. That averages out to 38 times in a given year.

Whereas Trump has gone golfing at least 104 times in the 2.75 years he's been in office, with a projected total of 323 times assuming he finishes his 4-year term - which would be a projected average of 81 times in a year.

Trump so far has spent 166 days (5.5 months) golfing, costing taxpayers about $110,000,000 to date and counting.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
You would if you felt that you were part of a team and that you were doing damage to that team and that cause. I don't think Trump sees himself as in a society with which he must cooperate and unify. He sees himself as an authority with the power to act unilaterally against everyone. He seeks out confirmation from those who think the same way and who run countries which do not exhibit the qualities of an open and free democracy.

Scared U.S. citizens elected a dictator. Now it remains to be seen if those citizens come to fear the person that they elected or not. Time will tell.
A dictator ? Complete and total control of every aspect of American life ? You are afflicted with terminal hyperbole !

You do realize that the so called resist and impeach ideas, adopted by most democrats in Congress, and by the biggest mouthed deocrats began before Trump ever took office, don´t you ?

How in hell can he co operate and unify when the democrats have vowed never to cooperate ?

Unify, tell me about that. Domestically I have no interest in forming a union with those who despise me, want to limit my Constitutional rights, slaughter innocent babieś, want to raise taxes and shove socialism down my throat.

The modern democrat party wants the government, their government, to intrude into every aspect of life. They want open borders, and higher taxes and wealth redistribution.

As Margaret Thatcher said "socialism is wonderful, till you run out of other peoples money".

Scared citizens elected..................?

No, we were sick of political family dynasties who promised much and delivered little. We were sick of the nanny state and its creeping strangulation of freedom.

Personally, I was a Ted Cruz supporter, and was quite pissed at how the party hierarchy allowed democrats and knot heads to vote in the primaries which should have been reserved for Republicans only.

No matter, I would vote for Donald Duck before a Clinton, any one of that family crime syndicate.

So, don´t whine about compromise and being brought together, your side promised on election day that neither would happen.

The precedent has been set. When a democrat president is elected, another resist movement will be born, you wanted a cultural civil war, you have it.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
There is a website that tracks this very thing. While Trump frequently criticized Obama whenever he golfed, the number of times Obama did golf over the course of 8 years is 306. That averages out to 38 times in a given year.

Whereas Trump has gone golfing at least 104 times in the 2.75 years he's been in office, with a projected total of 323 times assuming he finishes his 4-year term - which would be a projected average of 81 times in a year.

Trump so far has spent 166 days (5.5 months) golfing, costing taxpayers about $110,000,000 to date and counting.
Man, those are HUGE green feeś !!!
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
A dictator ? Complete and total control of every aspect of American life ? You are afflicted with terminal hyperbole !

You do realize that the so called resist and impeach ideas, adopted by most democrats in Congress, and by the biggest mouthed deocrats began before Trump ever took office, don´t you ?

How in hell can he co operate and unify when the democrats have vowed never to cooperate ?

Unify, tell me about that. Domestically I have no interest in forming a union with those who despise me, want to limit my Constitutional rights, slaughter innocent babieś, want to raise taxes and shove socialism down my throat.

The modern democrat party wants the government, their government, to intrude into every aspect of life. They want open borders, and higher taxes and wealth redistribution.

As Margaret Thatcher said "socialism is wonderful, till you run out of other peoples money".

Scared citizens elected..................?

No, we were sick of political family dynasties who promised much and delivered little. We were sick of the nanny state and its creeping strangulation of freedom.

Personally, I was a Ted Cruz supporter, and was quite pissed at how the party hierarchy allowed democrats and knot heads to vote in the primaries which should have been reserved for Republicans only.

No matter, I would vote for Donald Duck before a Clinton, any one of that family crime syndicate.

So, don´t whine about compromise and being brought together, your side promised on election day that neither would happen.

The precedent has been set. When a democrat president is elected, another resist movement will be born, you wanted a cultural civil war, you have it.

I'll let Trump speak for himself...

Everything President Trump Has Said That Sounds Like He Wants to be a Dictator (No, Really)

A dictator is one who thinks they do not have to listen to others or make compromises. They always know best and ideally should be granted the power to do what they want.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
My Attorney's Get Arrested = MAGA

Lawyers are Trumps way of covering his illegal activities through attorney-client privilege. They can act as his agents and are obligated to be silent or risk their ability to be lawyers.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
I'll let Trump speak for himself...

Everything President Trump Has Said That Sounds Like He Wants to be a Dictator (No, Really)

A dictator is one who thinks they do not have to listen to others or make compromises. They always know best and ideally should be granted the power to do what they want.
He will never have the power to be a dictator, and if he somehow tried to be one, the country would rise against him. It won´ t happen with Trump.

So, he thinks he knows best, an idiotic mindset to ignore advisers.

It isn´t new, JFK ignored his advisers and withdrew the air support he had promised for the bay of pigs operation, at the last minute, and got many hundreds slaughtered, any more hundreds imprisoned till they died.

He also bonked anything with a skirt on in the white house, so he was just as totally depraved as Trump.

The point ? Every president in one way or another has tried to grab power, and many were arrogant SOBs who dictated to their advisers.

I get it, you hate Trump with every fiber of your being, but don´t try and pretend he is the only president who didn´t listen to advisers, or is arrogant. He may be the the worst, but the chicken little the sky is falling act is getting old.

I have heard it many, many times in the past. It wasn´t true then, and it isn´t now.
 
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