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The biogeographic evidence for evolution

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
The bible is not my opinion. Your belief based so called science interpretations are belief.

It is your interpretation of the Bible, so it is your opinion. You have no reason, given your position, to think the Bible is now the same as it was in the past. So the Bible you read (in the present) may well be unreliable. It is your *opinion* that it isn't.
 

dad

Undefeated
It is your interpretation of the Bible, so it is your opinion. You have no reason, given your position, to think the Bible is now the same as it was in the past. So the Bible you read (in the present) may well be unreliable. It is your *opinion* that it isn't.
God will be the same when the new world comes on earth. The bible also!

We may read the record of the past as stated in Scripture and see, regardless of interpretation, that the old world was distinctly different in basic ways. Now if you want to challenge the obvious you will need to pony up and provide some sort of case.
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
God will be the same when the new world comes on earth. The bible also!

In your opinion.

We may ead the record of the past as stated in Scripture and see, regardless of interpretation, that the old world was distinctly different in basic ways. Now if you want to challenge the obvious you will need to pony up and provide some sort of case.

No, that is purely a matter of interpretation. If, for example, it is all allegory, then your claim fails. If it is simply a myth made up by people in the past, your claim also fails. If whatever changes you think happened in the past also affected all of our books, then you can't rely on what our books say (just like you claim we can't rely on the processes going on today to judge the past), and your claim fails.

The 'obvious' is that you have an interpretation that disagrees with the interpretations of others. You have your opinion, and others have theirs. Others consider it to be obvious that the Bible is a collection of stories with little or not factual basis.
 

dad

Undefeated
In your opinion.



No, that is purely a matter of interpretation. If, for example, it is all allegory, then your claim fails.
If evolution is an allegory your claim fails...so?

If whatever changes you think happened in the past also affected all of our books
Before the time of Babel we do not even know there was writing let alone books. Relax. All books are present state.


The 'obvious' is that you have an interpretation that disagrees with the interpretations of others.

No, either we believe it or not.

Like your religion.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Speak for yourself!

He is speaking for himself. You on the other hand, are trying to speak for him. You are trying to tell other people what their world view is and how that supposedly impacts society. Here we have one of those "other people" telling you that you're wrong about his views and I find it absolutely hilarious that you get mad about that and even go so far as to argue with it.

You are a complete joke.

I am not in there with you in any way. My relatives were people. Nothing else. As much as you think you are relatives with fruit, and bugs, sorry, don't include rational people in your fantasies.

Equal footing with slugs in a pond that you might steal a person's farm to protect!
Jesus made a way for all to have life everlasting. Man will never be united or save the planet or himself. Man needs saving and is fallen and hopelessly lost. Man would destroy life and the planet if Jesus did not step in from heaven to intervene.

Yeah, your worldview sounds SO MUCH better!

"Don't bother trying to solve the world's problems, because my imaginary friend is going to come and save the planet for us!"

Good luck with that.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
No. Mine is that we have an eternal destiny to rule and reign with Him forever. My view of the world is that He will come and fix it rather than greenies saving the planet.

So, as per your very own admission....


"our" view, is that we need to work together to make the world a better place.
"your" view, is that there's no need to do that because some god that you believe on faith exists will come and solve the problems for us.



I wonder which view will actually lead to a better world.................................................................


:rolleyes:

Ever heared the saying "2 hands working, accomplish more then 1000 hands clasped in prayer"?
Maybe you should think about it for a second.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
If evolution is an allegory your claim fails...so?

The obvious difference is that we know that people write allegory and collect them into books like the Bible. Evolution is based on evidene we collect that isn't simply the writings of people in the past (which can be allegory, biased, uninformed, myth, etc).

Before the time of Babel we do not even know there was writing let alone books. Relax. All books are present state.

Which means you can't rely on them to tell you about the past, right? At least, that is *your* position on every other attempt to understand the past.

No, either we believe it or not.

Like your religion.

Where is the evidence? Which is more reliable? Written evidence by people who made up myths, were not knowledgeable about the world, and who were promoting a particular political point, OR the physical evidence we can look at, analyze, model, etc?

To me, the answer is obvious.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
We've been through all this before, you just are eager to find an out that does not exist.

You wrote "Hitler and Stalin did what they did as Darwinists."

I compacted that to Darwin=Hitler.

It is precious that you call it a lie, when it is your thesis - something that you seem to find very important despite the fact that it is based on, at best, unwarranted extrapolation, shoddy scholarship, and an obvious desperation to attack evolution at all costs, even using logical fallacies to do so - a thesis of ignorance, as I demonstrated when you actually cited a paper that not only took down right-wing scumbag Weikart's claims, but concluded with:


In order to sustain the thesis that Hitler was a Darwinian one would have to ignore all the explicit statements of Hitler rejecting any theory like Darwin’s and draw fanciful implications from vague words, errant phrases, and ambiguous sentences,neglecting altogether more straight -forward, contextual interpretations of such utterances. Only the ideologically blinded would still try to sustain the thesis in the face of the contrary, manifest evidence.

Remember?

here, let me remind you:

TX Lt. Gov. Blames El Paso Shooting on Not Letting Kids “Pray in Our Schools”


Which is a lie.


We are all animals.

Hitler came up with his hatred of Jews and the like when he was a Christian, doing, according to him, "the Lord's work."

I trust that you will stop using the pathetic, lie-based argument against evolution that Darwin=Hitler from now on, but I doubt you will do so. Creationists have so little going for them and their sad arguments that lies are about the best they can offer these days.

YES, Hitler and Stalin both spoke of man's struggle for survival, fittest against weakest, more Spencer than Darwin, but there you have it.

If Hitler was doing the Lord's work when he murdered Jews and born again Christians, and had nuns and priests put in death camps, whose work are you doing when you assault me the way he did? Who is your Lord?
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Only someone with either a vast ignorance concerning the subject of biological evolution and/or with a hidden political agenda would say such things.

Biological evolution is a model that explains what happens in nature and which processes all living things (due to the condition of "living") are inevitably subject to.

It is NOT a sociological model against which we should model our society. Those who think that that is a "logical implication" of natural processes, either don't comprehend the natural processes or they have an agenda.

In reality the science of biology doesn't mean we should shoot disabled people in the head at birth, just like the model of gravity doesn't mean we should push people off of buildings.

What ignorant absurd things to say...........



No, we humans are definatly animals. That is just our biological classification. It's not a prescription on how you should live your life or about how you should interact with other humans (or not).

The classification ONLY deals with your biological make-up.

Perhaps you should study Darwinism and Social Darwinism more. This is chapter and verse for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, you know, atheist dictators:

Social Darwinism: the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. Now largely discredited, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was used to justify political conservatism, imperialism, and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Perhaps you should study Darwinism and Social Darwinism more

Case in point: "social darwinism", is not evolution theory and has nothing to do with it.


This is chapter and verse for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, you know, atheist dictators:

Social Darwinism: the theory that individuals, groups, and peoples are subject to the same Darwinian laws of natural selection as plants and animals. Now largely discredited, social Darwinism was advocated by Herbert Spencer and others in the late 19th and early 20th centuries and was used to justify political conservatism, imperialism, and racism and to discourage intervention and reform.


So, just like I said: only people with vast ignorance on the subject of biology or who have socio-political agenda's will be saying such stupid things.

Funny how actually agree while claiming that I'm wrong.

I can only repeat myself:
The theoy of biological evolution only deals with the processes that all living things are subject to due to the mere condition of being alive. ALL living things. It speaks to our biological makeup and, you know... how biology works.

It is not a prescription for how to treat eachother nore for how to organize a society.
No matter how many times you repeat it or how many times you wish to be juvenile and invoke godwin to make your silly point.

It's not going to change the facts.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
YES, Hitler and Stalin both spoke of man's struggle for survival, fittest against weakest, more Spencer than Darwin, but there you have it.


"fit" in context of evolution, doesn't mean what you apparantly think it means.
Nore does it imply what you apparantly think it implies.

This is the root of your error.
But you're not interested in learning, are you?

You are only interested in trying to compare "evilutionists" with nazi's and implying that they are one and the same. Whatever you can use to try and demonize scientists and any view that is counter to your warped bronze aged view of the world, you will happily use. No matter if it makes sense. No matter if it is based on ignorance or even straight up lies. No matter how many people point your errors out to you.

It's quite sad, actually.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
False. It is carrying to absurd levels of pagan imagination results of some processes we see today.
Nope, it's true. Evolution isn't a worldview. It has absolutely nothing to do with pagans, or religion at all. It is merely a description of a process at work in nature all around us, gleaned from careful and rigorous observation and testing.

If you want to know my world view, it's secular humanism.

Speak for yourself!
I am not in there with you in any way. My relatives were people. Nothing else. As much as you think you are relatives with fruit, and bugs, sorry, don't include rational people in your fantasies.

It is demonstrably true that all living things are related, to varying degrees. You've heard of DNA, right?

Equal footing with slugs in a pond that you might steal a person's farm to protect!
Huh?

Jesus made a way for all to have life everlasting. Man will never be united or save the planet or himself. Man needs saving and is fallen and hopelessly lost. Man would destroy life and the planet if Jesus did not step in from heaven to intervene.
This reinforces my point, I think.
 
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SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
He is speaking for himself. You on the other hand, are trying to speak for him. You are trying to tell other people what their world view is and how that supposedly impacts society. Here we have one of those "other people" telling you that you're wrong about his views and I find it absolutely hilarious that you get mad about that and even go so far as to argue with it.

You are a complete joke.



Yeah, your worldview sounds SO MUCH better!

"Don't bother trying to solve the world's problems, because my imaginary friend is going to come and save the planet for us!"

Good luck with that.
This is so much better than my response!! :thumbsup:
Pretend I didn't say anything. :D
 

dad

Undefeated
So, as per your very own admission....


"our" view, is that we need to work together to make the world a better place.
"your" view, is that there's no need to do that because some god that you believe on faith exists will come and solve the problems for us.

Working together is a fine dream. Never seen it happen yet in history. The only time the bible prophesies that will happen to a large degree is when the final short termed dictator rules.


Ever heared the saying "2 hands working, accomplish more then 1000 hands clasped in prayer"?
Or this one
'The devil flees when he sees the weakest saint on his knees'

or these..

“Prayer is not overcoming God’s reluctance, but laying hold of His willingness.” — Martin Luther


“More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of.” — Lord Alfred Tennyson
 

dad

Undefeated
He is speaking for himself.

Great! He can imagine himself kin to cockroaches all the live long day then.


You on the other hand, are trying to speak for him. You are trying to tell other people what their world view is and how that supposedly impacts society. Here we have one of those "other people" telling you that you're wrong about his views and I find it absolutely hilarious that you get mad about that and even go so far as to argue with it.

Truth marches on. Rejecting the creator and replacing it with worship of the creatures does not result in more respect and love in mankind.

"Don't bother trying to solve the world's problems, because my imaginary friend is going to come and save the planet for us!"
Nothing imaginary about Jesus actually.
 

dad

Undefeated
The obvious difference is that we know that people write allegory and collect them into books like the Bible. Evolution is based on evidene we collect that isn't simply the writings of people in the past (which can be allegory, biased, uninformed, myth, etc).
The theory that life came from the process of evolving is not based on anything but belief actually.


Which means you can't rely on them to tell you about the past, right? At least, that is *your* position on every other attempt to understand the past.
Written records tell us about the past of course. Only Scripture tells us of the past before the flod though of course, since it is God's record piped to man, and He was there.

Where is the evidence? Which is more reliable? Written evidence by people who made up myths, were not knowledgeable about the world, and who were promoting a particular political point, OR the physical evidence we can look at, analyze, model, etc?

Your religious beliefs foisted and imposed and smeared all over evidences is reliably unreliable! Count on it!
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Boy oh boy, you really missed the point, Dad. Try reading more carefully.

Oh, and nobody is talking about the "worship of creatures." Not all of us think inside of a religion box.
 
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