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Are you Greater than an Ape?

for lack of ability?.....does animals believe?

  • no....they cannot

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • we are dust as they are dust

    Votes: 6 66.7%
  • faith saves

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9
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dianaiad

Well-Known Member
What can be taken out of context in

"What's wrong with acknowledging that He just might have created us "
The part about "through evolution,' when you went on to lambaste me as if were arguing against evolution. Something about DNA, as I remember?

The IMPORTANT part of that sentence, the part that gives all the meaning to the sentence; the object of it.

What you did is the difference between "She went riding' and 'she went riding through the park.'

The two sentences are very different, have very different purposes.

"What's wrong with acknowledging that He just might have created us" is a VERY different sentence from "What's wrong with acknowledging that He just might have created us through evolution?"

You can't SEE that? The purposes behind them are very different. "What's wrong with acknowledging that He created us?" demands a huge change in world view, and would be addressed to unbelievers. It would be like you demanding 'what's wrong with acknowledging that there is no God?" It could be seen as insulting.

However, that's not what I wrote, is it? I wrote 'what's wrong with acknowledging that He created us through evolution?" Remember that the context was that you and I both were addressing believers, not non-believers. People who already believe that God created us. Specifically, addressing those who believe that God created us specifically the way Genesis has been interpreted.

So my question was to them...yes, we believe that God created us. What's wrong with the idea that He created us through evolution?

I can't believe that we are still having this...defugelty, frankly. You are an evolutionist. So am I. You like the evidence for it that we've found. So do I. Why in the world are you arguing with me as if I were a young earth creationist? Why are you taking EVERYTHING I write not only wrongly, but in many cases, having to work really hard to do so? I mean, really....you had to deliberately work hard to change this one.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Yes. I do think some animals can believe things. Not all animals, but some.

Of course they can.

For example: whenever my daughter goes out, my dogs sit on the couch and stare out the window. When she comes home, they go nutso; jumping around and being excited and welcoming.

They believe that she will come back and are joyful when she does.

....................

Same dogs will line up in front of her, sitting quietly. Doesn't matter whether she is in the kitchen, at her computer, in the yard...doesn't matter. They will do this, believing that if they sit there long enough, she'll 'cave' and give them milk bones.

Sometimes she shoos them away; no milk bones. However, they keep coming back and sitting for her. They believe that, well, THIS time a milk bone will appear. ;)

That's belief.

Do they believe in Gods, or that WE are 'gods?' Who knows? We can't read their minds, but you can take it to the bank that dogs can believe in the reappearance of their 'mommy,' ......and milk bones.
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
and does heaven give a damn?

Man is made in the image of God to reflect and reflect upon God in a way animals cannot
Man can be adopted and believers part of the church, the bride of Christ... not so animals.

In creation the creation was not declared 'very good' until the first marriage.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The poll is really, really strange. Not only is it poorly constructed from a grammar perspective (e.g. "does animals believe"), but the options are also not very coherent. "No... they cannot" does not fit with "we are dust as they are dust" which does not fit with "faith saves." The first seems to be set to answer the question of whether or not animals can "believe" (believe WHAT exactly?), the second seems to be answering a different question entirely (perhaps the OP title question - "Are you greater than an ape?"), and the third is just out in left field, standing there, picking its nose and has nothing to do with any of the rest of the post's content as far as I can tell. And then there's the enigmatically placed "for lack of ability?" - what is this in reference to?
I've seen some science work in documentary
the experiment aimed at determination of when a BELIEF in something unseen can take hold

seems the lesser primates cannot even consider
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
And with different thumbs. We have finer mobility and better at delicate manipulation. That and our brain development allowed us to devise more complex tools.
and yet we can be surpassed

given a touch screen and a reward
a chimp can learn to touch the screen where the numbers one through ten
were there just a moment ago

if the locations are repeated in order AND location
the chimp gets the good stuff

we humans cannot follow
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Heaven is not a person with opinions. It is a word used as a reference to something, either of the experiential kind, or a tenet of belief.

I like this version...

got a thread somewhere......something to the effect....

Where are YOU going?
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
and does heaven give a damn?
The possibilites given in your poll do not answer the question.

The truth is that the Great Ape nearest us, the Chimpanzee, does exhibit religious behavior, or at least if men did the same behaviors, we would immediately describe it as religious.

Technically, homo sapiens are grouped in the Family of Great Apes. Yet there is a difference between us and the other Great Apes that is of so great a quantity, that it rises to the level of quality. I strongly suggest l watching Dr. Robert Sapolky's video on this matter on YouTube "Are Humans just another Primate?"

 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
seems the lesser primates cannot even consider

Failure to consider fabricated conundrums hardly seems like a negative.

Humans need lots of therapy and even medication to arrive at such naked simplicity. Meditation works for some people too, unless they are actually seeking The Irrefutable Proposition.

In which case they’re sc**wed.
 

Howard Is

Lucky Mud
and yet we can be surpassed

given a touch screen and a reward
a chimp can learn to touch the screen where the numbers one through ten
were there just a moment ago

if the locations are repeated in order AND location
the chimp gets the good stuff

we humans cannot follow

Migrating butterflies that find their way to the same tree as their ancestors, , platypus electrically locating tiny larvae in swirling water, dogs that find their way home across continents, birds that learn the traffic light sequence so collecting food scraps on the road is safe, dolphins saving drowning humans....the list goes on....
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Migrating butterflies that find their way to the same tree as their ancestors, , platypus electrically locating tiny larvae in swirling water, dogs that find their way home across continents, birds that learn the traffic light sequence so collecting food scraps on the road is safe, dolphins saving drowning humans....the list goes on....
Animals do the darndest things. These are not examples of intelligence but instinct. You do have fascinating examples of animal intelligence, for example the occasional parrot that learns to speak (rather than just mimic). But human intelligence puts a man on the moon and builds computers. Nothing animals do is anything close to that.

Did you watch the Sapolsky video?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The possibilites given in your poll do not answer the question.
of course not

and linking somewhere else is ok

but what do YOU think?

sit at the table alongside an angel
and break bread?

and will he not look you in the eye?

he might even ask......should I give a damn?
 
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