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Why do you think society is so badly adjusted to disabled people?

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
Here, in California USA, reasonable modifications and reasonable accommodations are mandatory under the law.

Self-Advocacy Publications | Disability Rights California

Click on "Businesses and Government Entities"

Click on
Screenshot_2019-10-16 Businesses and Government Entities Disability Rights California.png



"Discrimination is the exclusion, segregation, and unequal treatment of people with disabilities in public accommodations. This includes the failure to make changes in policies and practices (known as “reasonable modifications” or “reasonable accommodations”) to allow a person with a disability equal access to the services and facilities of a business. These changes are required if they do not fundamentally alter the nature of the business’ goods and services and do not impose an undue financial or administrative burden."
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Here, in California USA, reasonable modifications and reasonable accommodations are mandatory under the law.

Self-Advocacy Publications | Disability Rights California

Click on "Businesses and Government Entities"

Click on
View attachment 33602


"Discrimination is the exclusion, segregation, and unequal treatment of people with disabilities in public accommodations. This includes the failure to make changes in policies and practices (known as “reasonable modifications” or “reasonable accommodations”) to allow a person with a disability equal access to the services and facilities of a business. These changes are required if they do not fundamentally alter the nature of the business’ goods and services and do not impose an undue financial or administrative burden."
I am happy to hear that it is well-taken care of where you live :)
Here in Norway, it is in the law too, but it is not followed up by the government,but i hope it will be better soon
 

Earthtank

Active Member
I am happy to hear that it is well-taken care of where you live :)
Here in Norway, it is in the law too, but it is not followed up by the government,but i hope it will be better soon

The harsh reality might be there that there is not enough money to be made from helping disabled people. They can put all the laws they want in the books but, who will enforce them? Issues like these need to be fought either 1) from the top (politicians) 2) those with money or 3) A huge number of regular people like you and I
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
The harsh reality might be there that there is not enough money to be made from helping disabled people. They can put all the laws they want in the books but, who will enforce them? Issues like these need to be fought either 1) from the top (politicians) 2) those with money or 3) A huge number of regular people like you and I
Norway has 6 trillion million in the government system, so it should not be a problem to help every disabled people but yes it is politics. But thinking of speaking with each shop in our area to hear if they can get a removable ramp to use when my fianceè want to access their shop.
Some will say yes, some will say no :)
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
Since my fianceė become disabled we have noticed that transport and especially shops/restaurants are badly adjusted toward handicaped people.
Now in 2019 should it not be mostly fixed so disabled people could get same treatment as those who are fully Heathy?

I think you have already answered your own question: You have only noticed the problem when it began to affect you. I expect your fellow citizens to have the same lack of awareness.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I think you have already answered your own question: You have only noticed the problem when it began to affect you. I expect your fellow citizens to have the same lack of awareness.
Well, i have been seeing it for many years, but yes when my fianceè now have to use wheelchair more mobility scooter it is more easy to open the eyes to the problems.

But would it not be better if every store that opens had to have some sort of equipment to help disabled people from day one? example collapsible ramp they could put down when a person in wheelchair come.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Since my fianceė become disabled we have noticed that transport and especially shops/restaurants are badly adjusted toward handicaped people.
Now in 2019 should it not be mostly fixed so disabled people could get same treatment as those who are fully Heathy?
Possibly because so many people believe in the primitive ethics of ancient Scripture.

For most of human history there wasn't much problem with disabilities. People just died.

It's one of the many new moral issues created by science and improvements to technology. Issues that aren't addressed in the dominant ethical codes people live by.
Tom
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Possibly because so many people believe in the primitive ethics of ancient Scripture.

For most of human history there wasn't much problem with disabilities. People just died.

It's one of the many new moral issues created by science and improvements to technology. Issues that aren't addressed in the dominant ethical codes people live by.
Tom
So an awareness campaign of some sort could help people be more aware of the problem, or at least the people who own stores and shops?
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Since my fianceė become disabled we have noticed that transport and especially shops/restaurants are badly adjusted toward handicaped people.
Now in 2019 should it not be mostly fixed so disabled people could get same treatment as those who are fully Heathy?
It should be. The local provincial and municipal governments looked at barrier free design in the 1990s, and some changes were incorporated into building specifications, such that they are still used today, but then it seems to have been forgotten. Dedication to the idea waivers at the pleasure of the incoming government, who believe that their initiatives support the immediate wants of their electorate. Today's 'wants' are on a much larger, global scale. So while it's interesting to see what the incoming governments' initiatives will address, it's sad that they can't see that one person struggling with his wheelchair to go half a block down the sidewalk to board the ramp and roll half a block back just to get to the door.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
It should be. The local provincial and municipal governments looked at barrier free design in the 1990s, and some changes were incorporated into building specifications, such that they are still used today, but then it seems to have been forgotten. Dedication to the idea waivers at the pleasure of the incoming government, who believe that their initiatives support the immediate wants of their electorate. Today's 'wants' are on a much larger, global scale. So while it's interesting to see what the incoming governments' initiatives will address, it's sad that they can't see that one person struggling with his wheelchair to go half a block down the sidewalk to board the ramp and roll half a block back just to get to the door.
Yes, I must say i agree fully with you. Ramps are very good, but if they are installed in the wrong way, they are less useful, and often to irritation for people who are not disabled and then it is not good.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Since my fianceė become disabled we have noticed that transport and especially shops/restaurants are badly adjusted toward handicaped people.
Now in 2019 should it not be mostly fixed so disabled people could get same treatment as those who are fully Heathy?
Such changes cost money, and when it comes to money, our empathy for the plight of others tends to vanish.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Such changes cost money, and when it comes to money, our empathy for the plight of others tends to vanish.
True, This is the reason some stores have given me when i spoke with them about the issues of how to access their store with a wheelchair. they say it cost to much.
Well, i did some research and found that a ramp needed to get in would cost about 3000-6000 Norwegian kroner (295 USD to 655 USD) so technically not a huge investment for a store who want customers (they can also get some refunded by government in Norway)
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Since my fianceė become disabled we have noticed that transport and especially shops/restaurants are badly adjusted toward handicaped people.
Now in 2019 should it not be mostly fixed so disabled people could get same treatment as those who are fully Heathy?

That's begging the question, don't you think?

I'll admit that there are still plenty of places that aren't ADA compatible, but as far as I can tell, most people are trying. Converting all the old buildings is a problem, still.

And then there are the idiocies.

For instance, for nearly forty years I've been able to park in the back of one of my favorite stores, and enter that store through the back. It was far shorter for me to walk (didn't matter 40 years ago but it sure does now...) and MUCH easier to navigate with walking aids when I need them, and even wheel chairs. I never went in the front door.

Now, however, some people in the city have fined the owner. They made him resurface the back parking lot (YAY!!!) and install handicap spaces....(wait...what? the 'normal' spaces are actually closer to the store...) and forced him to close his back doors to customers because those entrances are not ADA compliant. Dunno WHY, mind you; they might be too narrow.

Which means that I have to park at the end of the lot and walk all the way around the block to the front of the store; quite literally ten times more walking than I ever had to do before. Matt (the store owner) has no choice. He has to redo all his counters, etc., too, which I honestly don't get.

What He has done is to put a buzzer/bell by the handicap parking spaces. If the walk is too much, just push the button and he'll come out and help you in, with a wheelchair or whatever. Now he can do this; He and his wife are the owners and only employees.

The problem with him is that his business is sewing machines, and he sells fabric and embroidery thread (among many other things). His 'disabled' customer base is probably larger than most businesses: he provides goods and services that many 'crafty' disabled people can do and enjoy doing. So what's with the handicap access rules that have actually made it harder for disabled people to access his store ?

Well, what the hey....I usually get my stuff from Amazon anyway.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
That's begging the question, don't you think?

I'll admit that there are still plenty of places that aren't ADA compatible, but as far as I can tell, most people are trying. Converting all the old buildings is a problem, still.

And then there are the idiocies.

For instance, for nearly forty years I've been able to park in the back of one of my favorite stores, and enter that store through the back. It was far shorter for me to walk (didn't matter 40 years ago but it sure does now...) and MUCH easier to navigate with walking aids when I need them, and even wheel chairs. I never went in the front door.

Now, however, some people in the city have fined the owner. They made him resurface the back parking lot (YAY!!!) and install handicap spaces....(wait...what? the 'normal' spaces are actually closer to the store...) and forced him to close his back doors to customers because those entrances are not ADA compliant. Dunno WHY, mind you; they might be too narrow.

Which means that I have to park at the end of the lot and walk all the way around the block to the front of the store; quite literally ten times more walking than I ever had to do before. Matt (the store owner) has no choice. He has to redo all his counters, etc., too, which I honestly don't get.

What He has done is to put a buzzer/bell by the handicap parking spaces. If the walk is too much, just push the button and he'll come out and help you in, with a wheelchair or whatever. Now he can do this; He and his wife are the owners and only employees.

The problem with him is that his business is sewing machines, and he sells fabric and embroidery thread (among many other things). His 'disabled' customer base is probably larger than most businesses: he provides goods and services that many 'crafty' disabled people can do and enjoy doing. So what's with the handicap access rules that have actually made it harder for disabled people to access his store ?

Well, what the hey....I usually get my stuff from Amazon anyway.
In your case, it looks like the local government made it more difficult, and that is sad hear. And yes my fianceè do experience similar, but not totally the same as you have done. But the problem for her is that the doors are either to narrow or too high to get in to. and the stairs in front of the stores it means she can not shop there anymore after she becomes mostly in need of her wheelchair. if the shops had a form of the ramp they could put down when she gets there (or others in the same situation) and remove when they leave, that would help disabled people a lot.

Time will show what happens :)
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
In your case, it looks like the local government made it more difficult, and that is sad hear. And yes my fianceè do experience similar, but not totally the same as you have done. But the problem for her is that the doors are either to narrow or too high to get in to. and the stairs in front of the stores it means she can not shop there anymore after she becomes mostly in need of her wheelchair. if the shops had a form of the ramp they could put down when she gets there (or others in the same situation) and remove when they leave, that would help disabled people a lot.

Time will show what happens :)

Takes awhile.

And sometimes the shops CAN'T do what is required; it is physically impossible.

I have found that in those cases, the stores will do their best to figure out a workaround. I haven't run across any mean people.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Takes awhile.

And sometimes the shops CAN'T do what is required; it is physically impossible.

I have found that in those cases, the stores will do their best to figure out a workaround. I haven't run across any mean people.
True, most shop owners do their best as you say. And sometimes the owner of the building does not want to pay for the extra cost to facilitate the disabled.
So yes there are many factors in this. But we (my fianceè and I) can not give up before we tried to benefit everyone who shares the problems with disabilities and access to shops :)
 
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