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Supreme Court completes its hearing of Ayodhya/Babri Mosque case

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
A five judge bench of Supreme Court which includes the Chief Justice Gogoi and the Chief Justice designate Mishra (in India, the senior most judge gets to be the Chief Justice) has completed today the day-to-day hearing of the 206 year old case in 40 days. They are expected to give their judgment in 23 days, i.e., around Nov. 8/9.

The government is making strong arrangements to ensure that nothing untoward happens in case the judgment goes against one party or the other. People connected with the case have been provided security. There is a rumor that the Sunni Muslim litigants are ready to abandon their claim on the mosque and would be satisfied if alternate space is provided to them. Let us see what happens.

rama.png


I am not satisfied with the design of the proposed temple. There will be millions of people visiting it in future (if it is built, of which there is all the possibility now). This old style temple will lead to unmanageable crowds, long lines and perhaps stampedes too.

They should think of a temple which has a lot of open space, something like al-bayt al-ḥarām in Mecca. The crowds at Ram temple in Ayodhya will easily exceed the crowds at Ka'aba. The temple builders have designed a two-lane road where the need will be for a 64-lane road.

images
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
A five judge bench of Supreme Court which includes the Chief Justice Gogoi and the Chief Justice designate Mishra (in India, the senior most judge gets to be the Chief Justice) has completed today the day-to-day hearing of the 206 year old case in 40 days. They are expected to give their judgment in 23 days, i.e., around Nov. 8/9.

The government is making strong arrangements to ensure that nothing untoward happens in case the judgment goes against one party or the other. People connected with the case have been provided security. There is a rumor that the Sunni Muslim litigants are ready to abandon their claim on the mosque and would be satisfied if alternate space is provided to them. Let us see what happens.

rama.png


I am not satisfied with the design of the proposed temple. There will be millions of people visiting it in future (if it is built, of which there is all the possibility now). This old style temple will lead to unmanageable crowds, long lines and perhaps stampedes too.

They should think of a temple which has a lot of open space, something like al-bayt al-ḥarām in Mecca. The crowds at Ram temple in Ayodhya will easily exceed the crowds at Ka'aba. The temple builders have designed a two-lane road where the need will be for a 64-lane road.

images

What makes you think so many people will actually want to go? Is it really that talked about?
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
The numbers at Kumbha, Char Dham, Amarnath, Tirupati, really at any other temple too, even when the conditions (climatic or security-wise) are not favorable. Ayodhya is very much / all the time in the heart of a Hindu. Rama is an avatara which close to all, whether a Shaiva or a Vaishnava. Did not he worship Shiva at Rameshwaram? Did not Mother Sita worship Gauri to get Lord Rama as her husband?

According to Wikipedia the Kumbh at Haridwar on April 14, 2010 - 60-80 million. Only Arba'een Pilgrimage at Karbala in Iraq is anywhere close (30 million). Ka'aba is not even in the top two lists in Wikipedia. It is in the third group with 2 to 5 million.
List of largest peaceful gatherings - Wikipedia
 
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Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The numbers at Kumbha, Char Dham, Amarnath, Tirupati, really at any other temple too, even when the conditions (climatic or security-wise) are not favorable. Ayodhya is very much / all the time in the heart of a Hindu. Rama is an avatara which close to all, whether a Shaiva or a Vaishnava. Did not he worship Shiva at Rameshwaram? Did not Mother Sita worship Gauri to get Lord Rama as her husband?

According to Wikipedia the Kumbh at Haridwar on April 14, 2010 - 60-80 million. Only Arba'een Pilgrimage at Karbala in Iraq is anywhere close (30 million). Ka'aba is not even in the top two lists in Wikipedia. It is in the third group with 2 to 5 million.
List of largest peaceful gatherings - Wikipedia
Thanks. My guess is there will be an original 5 year surge or so, and then it'll level off. Course I could be wrong.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Kumbh is held at four places in India for the last 800 years or so, has there been a diminution in the number of pilgrims?
Don't underestimate religiosity of Hindus. The numbers are increasing every year (population and money with the people too). :)

"A record over 24 crore people visited Kumbh-2019 (Prayagraj - Allahabad), i.e., 240 million*. The Maha Kumbh Mela held in 2013 had seen 78.6 million pilgrims, .."
* That is over a period of some six weeks.

A record over 24 crore people visited Kumbh-2019, more than total tourists in UP in 2014-17
Remember the Kumbh gathering are not held only at one place. They are held simultaneously in Ujjain, Nashik and Haridwar too. Those who cannot go to these places take the various baths (Kartik and Magha Purnima snana) in the holy ponds and rivers in their area. There is nothing comparable to it in the world.

1522404707_3.jpg
Prayagraj (Allahabad)
Third_Shahi_Snan_in_Hari_Ki_Pauri.jpg
Haridwar


Or the crowds in Mathura on Janmashtami or Holi. Ayodhya's Ram is just as close to our hearts.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"Elsewhere in many parts of India, similar but smaller community pilgrimage and bathing festivals are called the Magha Mela, Makar Mela or equivalent. For example, in Tamil Nadu, the Magha Mela with water-dip ritual is a festival of antiquity. This festival is held at the Mahamaham tank (near Kaveri river) every 12 years at Kumbakonam, attracts millions of South Indian Hindus and has been described as the Tamil Kumbh Mela. Other places where the Magha-Mela or Makar-Mela bathing pilgrimage and fairs have been called Kumbh Mela include Kurukshetra, Sonipat and Panauti (Nepal)."

"The earliest mention of Prayag and the bathing pilgrimage is found in Rigveda Pariśiṣṭa (supplement to the Rigveda). It is also mentioned in the Pali canons of Buddhism, such as in section 1.7 of Majjhima Nikaya, wherein the Buddha states that bathing in Payaga (Skt: Prayaga) cannot wash away cruel and evil deeds, rather the virtuous one should be pure in heart and fair in action."

So, that means the tradition existed even in Buddha's time, i.e., 2,600 years ago. :)

"The 7th-century Buddhist Chinese traveler Xuanzang mentions king Harsha and his capital of Prayag, which he states to be a sacred Hindu city with hundreds of "deva temples" and two Buddhist institutions. He also mentions the Hindu bathing rituals at the junction of the rivers."

"On amavasya – one of the three key bathing dates, over 5 million attended the 1954 Kumbh, about 10 million attended the 1977 Kumbh while the 1989 Kumbh attracted about 15 million."

"Maha Kumbh at Allahabad is the largest in the world, the attendance and scale of preparation of which keeps rising with each successive celebration. For the 2019 Ardh Kumbh at Prayagraj, the preparations include a US$610 million or €540 million temporary city over 2,500 hectares with 122,000 temporary toilets and range of accommodation from simple dormitory tents to 5-star tents, 800 special trains by the Indian Railway, artificially intelligent video surveillance and analytics by IBM, disease surveillance, river transport management by Inland Waterways Authority of India, and an app to help the visitors."
Kumbh Mela - Wikipedia

240 million makes it more than the population of Pakistan or Brazil and a little less than Indonesia. :)
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
My guess is there will be an original 5 year surge or so, and then it'll level off. Course I could be wrong.
That there will be a dearth of pilgrims at a place connection with Lord Rama and Mother Sita is a sort of blasphemy for us back here in India. This is in North India. I have not included the places associated with Lord Rama in South India and the festivals there.

Kalash Yatra at Sitamarhi; Haleshwar temple, Punaura Dham, where the legend says King Janaka was plowing the field and found the casket with Mother Sita (we can say the Temple of the Plow); King Janak's palace in Janakpur, Nepal; Chitrakoot Dham where Lord Rama spent some time of his exile.
janki_navmi_1524545185.jpg
haleshwar.jpeg
janakpur.jpg
chitrakoot.jpg


I see Sikhs in the image, which is not surprising as three orders of Sikhs are associated with Hindus, Udasi (larger faction), Udasi (smaller faction) and Nirmohi akharas.
 
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Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
A five judge bench of Supreme Court which includes the Chief Justice Gogoi and the Chief Justice designate Mishra (in India, the senior most judge gets to be the Chief Justice) has completed today the day-to-day hearing of the 206 year old case in 40 days. They are expected to give their judgment in 23 days, i.e., around Nov. 8/9.
A small correction, though it would not mean much to our non-Indian members; but still for propriety's sake, I must mention it.

The next Chief Justice of India will be Justice Sharad Arvind Bobde, who is the senior most judge of the Supreme court after Chief Justice Ranjan Gogoi, and not Justice Arun Kumar Mishra. I got it wrong. After Justice Bobde it will be Justice N. V. Ramana. Justice Arun Kumar will retire in the meantime and will not be the Chief Justice. Next in line are U.U. Lalit and D. Y. Chandrachud; the last just for two days - Nov. 9-10, 2024. Justice Chandrahud's father also was a Chief Justice of Indian Supreme Court. The succession is very orderly, no ambiguity, no political interference.
List of sitting judges of the Supreme Court of India - Wikipedia (by seniority)
 
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