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What are White Folks Doing Wrong?

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I didnt see anything to disagree with either.

What do you think the dark people are doing wrong,
or do you think about that?

Flip it to test it (bias).

Disadvantaged groups grew up with the generations that achieved legal protections through group action. Maybe they are not fully recognizing that their suffering now is becoming more and more the suffering experienced across race. The fight against racism is not over but may now need to swing more in the direction of general forms of psychological bias.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Because "white privilege" is precisely meant to indicate "dominant group in US". By saying "white" we simply cut to the chase.

Now I agree that the scholars could very well be changing their language to be more abstract, but I am not sure it would serve the purpose of not triggering cries of foul play.

If you go back to the numbers and say 'group privilege' then it, perhaps becomes clear that in the US we are talking about white males and probably Christian. My hope is that statistics and numbers are a focus in these scholarly assertions.

What about the homeless white males I see asking for money at the gas station? Should I ask them to check their privilege?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
While discrimination obviously still exists, to some extent, and a concept like WP is not entirely baseless, it likely has a net negative effect on reducing discrimination.

Modern anti-racism tends to focus on making people hyper-aware of race in order to navigate a precarious balancing act in order to stay on the right side of whatever shifting sands are fashionable in identity politics at that precise moment.

White people (and all other demographics) who want to contribute positively:

A) don't be racist, and oppose overt racism
B) understand and be more sensitive regarding cultural differences
C) within these limits, aim to treat people as equals not as "member of demographic X"
D) don't treat anti-racism as a way to generate social capital via virtue signalling (white liberals are far more 'woke' than any other demographic which is quite telling)

This will take time and happen slowly, as it has been for decades as race has become less of a factor. Today, people want to make it more of a factor, and there are numerous scientific studies that show (completely unsurprisingly) that the more people focus on race as a primary marker of identity, the more people discriminate.

If much remaining discrimination is a result of implicit bias, identity politics is exactly the wrong way to go about it. Discrimination reduces when people perceive they belong to the same group (Americans, Christians, etc) and increases when you tell people "we are not the same".



Whites aren't the leading demographic on that front, does this mean there is anti-white bias at play compared to Asians? If you segment demographics further, you will find black demographics (Nigerians for example) that outperform white, and white demographics that outperform other whites (Russian aver Irish for example).

The logic A and B are not equal, therefore racism/privilege is highly flawed yet this is the mindset that "white privilege" creates.

Just to point out, since there seems to be a lot of conflating of White privilege and racism these are not the same things although there may possible be some overlap.

Here is a reference.
https://www.collegeart.org/pdf/diversity/white-privilege-and-male-privilege.pdf

White privilege is the idea that White people enjoy some advantages over non-Whites. Also as pointed out, not all White people enjoy the same avantages. White privilege is experiential. Individually one should review where they may have gained some unearned advantage based on being White. May experience would obviously be different than someone else's.

One thing I experience for example a certain amount of respect, difference from non-Whites. Hispanics, Blacks, Asians treat people of their own race like crap, whereas they will always treat me with respect. I don't get this from other Whites. White people generally don't see each other as anything special.

Folks tell me I look like a person they can trust. I always thought that kind of silly to think that just by looking at me they have decided I'm trustworthy since they don't really know me.

Not so much that White privilege is a bad thing only that these advantages are not universal.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I tend to think the premise behind "white privilege" is to foster guilt on people who have nothing to feel guilty about. Not to mention, it's essentially using racism to fight racism.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion. But personally I don't believe I have anything to feel guilty about.
I do, however, realise that over the course of history, different groups have been advantaged in different situations. In some cases this has been overt, and in some cases it's a mere by-product of circumstance.
In a sense, it's human nature. But I also think we can do better.

Mind you, I don't think I've ever uttered the words 'white privilege' IRL. Still, conceptually there will always be advantaged people in a society. And I'm a firm advocate of social mobility as a means of keeping a society healthy. Just as I've learned to be more aware of gender biases, so too do I try to be more aware of racial bias.

What I do with that awareness I then need to own. My actions....theoretically...could end up racist. But the awareness of racial bias around me is not racist at all.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
I would not categorize as what white folks are doing now as wrong as much as i think its the system that is wrong and broken. Fix the system and i think most things would fall in place. Starting with the school and Justice system.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
Ask them whatever you like. Do you really think the concept means all whites have great lives?

Of course, if it's called "white privilege" it means every single white person.

...But yet, it's politically incorrect to say Muslims are terrorists, because people say "not all Muslims are terrorists"

Do you see the double standard here?
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
What about the homeless white males I see asking for money at the gas station? Should I ask them to check their privilege?

It is a mistake to see White privilege as something universally experienced by all White. It's more that one should examine for themselves, in their own experience, how they have been treated differently because of being White.

The homeless White on the street, you don't know what their experience has been. So you can't use some other White guy as an example. You can only really judge your own experiences which will differ from individual to individual.

For example, for some silly reason, folks I just met tend to feel that they can trust me. Not really knowing me I have to assume this is based on my looks. Perhaps being light skinned and blue eyed has a bit to do with that.

Of course your personal experience is likely to be completely different than mine. :D
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
wag our heads back and forth and talk funny?

I like black people
I do
really

but now and then I have to look around that 'front'
the need to 'represent'

I don't go about......I'm white....so kiss my ***

let's just be calm

You don't have to and that is the weird thing for me. In my experience it is not about my actions or any expectations on my part. It's about how other folks treat me. In that I have little control over how I'm treated by other people, what am I supposed to do about that? Start asking people to treat me like crap?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The problem with the term "white privilege" is that it sounds like white people are getting things or treatment that they should not receive. This is what inflames some white people when they hear the term. It's a RIGHT, not a PRIVILEGE, to be treated fairly without regard for race. To whatever extent this RIGHT is protected more frequently for white people, than for people of color, that's racial discrimination. Victims of discrimination are just that, innocent victims. We should drop "white privilege" from the dialog and go back to framing the problem as racial discrimination. The meaning is more clear. I have no idea how I can stop having white privilege, since white privilege is simply the absence of being discriminated against. But I do know what I can do to not discriminate against people of color and to do my part to see that they maintain the same RIGHT that I have.

The laws maintain the rights of all people. Certainly we should make sure the laws treat everyone equally.

However individually, I notice people will treat me more positively. Not necessarily in a big way. They tend to trust me without really knowing me. That that I take advantage of ti our abuse their trust whereas someone else they will be more wary of. I don't have to prove myself as often.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
What about the homeless white males I see asking for money at the gas station? Should I ask them to check their privilege?

An all or nothing approach to dismissing a subject due to an exception isn't useful either. While the statistics back it up, white privilege is a thing worth talking about. Just because there are challenges with dealing with homelessness, poverty, mental illness, addiction, etc doesn't mean that group privilege isn't also a useful area to understand.

Are all these things mutually influential? Sure. For each individual might their economic status equivocate their privilege? You bet! This doesn't lay the groundwork for a complete dismissal of 'white privilege'.

As in all things, these matters involve the understanding of a complex, adaptive system with many moving parts and fields of influence. We must pull out what shows a pattern before we can re-integrate for a fuller understanding of the whole system.
 

Cooky

Veteran Member
It is a mistake to see White privilege as something universally experienced by all White. It's more that one should examine for themselves, in their own experience, how they have been treated differently because of being White.

The homeless White on the street, you don't know what their experience has been. So you can't use some other White guy as an example. You can only really judge your own experiences which will differ from individual to individual.

For example, for some silly reason, folks I just met tend to feel that they can trust me. Not really knowing me I have to assume this is based on my looks. Perhaps being light skinned and blue eyed has a bit to do with that.

Of course your personal experience is likely to be completely different than mine. :D

You trying to say you're better looking than me er' somethin'..? :cool:;)
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
To be sure, there is nothing wrong with being a "mongrel". At least you can be a decent human and a "mongrel" both. Can't say the same about being a racist and a decent human. Those two things just don't coexist.

Except that it's derogatory.
I disagree completely.

A "mongrel" is an organism with widely disparate parents.
Science shows that that's a good thing. The more widely disparate the parents, the more likely that their progeny will inherit the best genes from both gene pools. Multi-racial people are, generally, genetically superior to the racially pure.

It's no guarantee. But being a mongrel is statistically significant. Hybrid vigor is a thing.

Except that it's derogatory.
Only among racists. People who think that some races are inherently better than others.
Those of us who understand genetics know better.
Being genetically diverse is not a guarantee of anything. But it's an advantage.
Considering the description "mongrel" as derogatory is both unscientific and semantic nonsense.
Tom
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
I disagree completely.

A "mongrel" is an organism with widely disparate parents.
Science shows that that's a good thing. The more widely disparate the parents, the more likely that their progeny will inherit the best genes from both gene pools. Multi-racial people are, generally, genetically superior to the racially pure.

It's no guarantee. But being a mongrel is statistically significant. Hybrid vigor is a thing.


Only among racists. People who think that some races are inherently better than others.
Those of us who understand genetics know better.
Being genetically diverse is not a guarantee of anything. But it's an advantage.
Considering the description "mongrel" as derogatory is both unscientific and semantic nonsense.
Tom
Racists exist, regardless of science.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
You trying to say you're better looking than me er' somethin'..? :cool:;)

:shrug::D

Just thought it weird people thinking they could assess me by looking at me.

Also wonder how expectation affect behavior. People saying they could trust me and me wanting to live up to that expectation.

I find one can often manipulate others by putting such expectations out there. Trust, reliability, decency. Initially people maybe a bit wary or suspicious of your "motives" I guess. However if you assume an expectation of decency they respond in kind.

So maybe more than just looks but how I approach people as well.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Racists exist, regardless of science.

Yes, that is part of the problem. While a racist may assume superiority, White privilege doesn't require any such assumption from the individual. Therefore they are more likely oblivious to the influence.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The PRIVILEGED behavior is what would change. But you just posted that you don't want to know what that is, exactly. So I don't see how anyone could explain to you what would need to be changed. Do you?

I meant the definition of White privilege. Unless you feel that behavior defines it. Then of course I'd like to know your thoughts.
 
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