ecco
Veteran Member
Apologies. I realized my mistake after the fact.
Oh, well. Maybe MJF read my post.
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If it could be proved no god exists
- Thread starter JJ50
- Start date
Oh, well. Maybe MJF read my post.
ecco
Veteran Member
You already are an atheist in regard to the vast majority of gods created by man's imaginings.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Well, if the "heavens" didn't create life then the earth created life.
And the earth is a part of the heavens.
It's all down to terminology - these guys thought planets were
wandering stars and the heavens revolved above them.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
It actually came from a Readers Digest article back in the late '60's.
I take it as factual.
Lots of new science can be a career destroying - it's just that
plate tectonics was likely the biggest career destroyer that I know
of in my life time.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
The theory postulates that nuggets of strange matter would punch right through the
earth. This matter is attracted to gravity so would spiral inwards to the earth's core.
We don't know - but the maths looks good to show its possible. And in science, as
they say, "If it's possible then its compulsory."
The pre-death comes from people like Peter Fenwick. His research is quite
scientific. He studied the experiences of many people facing death. Not only the
people dying but those who cared for them.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
I would have preferred a better description - God fearing MJFlores.
as the Bible says:
1 Corinthians 8:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.
But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled.
Shad
Veteran Member
A lot of suicides and violence. I have heard enough religious people admit the only reason they are not killing people is because of God and the threats about the afterlife.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
A theist only needs to believe in one god. To be an atheist, you con't believe in any. So, you're wrong. I'm not an atheist in any sense of the word.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is the best evidence you are going to get and it is the best evidence God has ever provided.That isn't evidence.
There are legitimate reasons why God does not come on down and show ALL of Himself:
“Were the Eternal Essence to manifest all that is latent within Him, were He to shine in the plentitude of His glory, none would be found to question His power or repudiate His truth. Nay, all created things would be so dazzled and thunderstruck by the evidences of His light as to be reduced to utter nothingness. How, then, can the godly be differentiated under such circumstances from the froward?” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 71-72
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am saying that reality is reality so if God exists, God exists and that is the reality.
There has to be a boatload of evidence that supports the CLAIM if someone was really a Messenger of God. There is really only one Messenger who would qualify in contemporary times, and there is no logical reason to look at Messengers who came hundreds or thousands of years ago, because their messages are not pertinent to the age we live in. There is only one true Messenger of God for every age in history, not several, so you need not concern yourself with contradictions. The *new* Messenger does not contradict the older Messengers either because God does not contradict Himself. God reveals *new truth* in every age, but it is additive, like building a new addition to a house; it does not conflict with what is already built.
Well, of course not, that is highly illogical. The Bible is the evidence, the only evidence we have for Christianity.
But that does not mean there isn’t any. I have not seen Alaska yet but Alaska is still up there.
I know how that sounds but I was overstating it to make a certain point, and that point is that if I *proved to you* that my religion is true to you and you believed it without getting your own proof then it would not be your decision to believe. I can provide evidence that might be convincing to you, but if you believed just because it was *evidence to me* then it would not be your own belief. A loose analogy would be if I got a college degree and then put your name on the diploma it would not be yours because you did nothing to earn it and you do not know what was necessary to get it.
I would probably be saying the same thing if I was not a Baha’i as I would see no reason to believe any of the older religions; even though they do have some good teachings, what humans have done to mess them up has made them far from what those older Messengers of God even taught.
It cannot be *shown* that one is right, but potentially we can discover that for ourselves if we do the homework. It is a stretch but it is possible. I have several college degrees and it was not easy getting all those but I was motivated so I worked really hard. I realize not everyone is like me and it might not even be necessary to work that hard, it all depends upon the person.
That is valid to withhold belief unless there is evidence that is sufficient for you to believe, but keep in mind there might still be a God out there guilty of existing, just like that man who got found not guilty could be guilty.Conversely, you could end up believing in a god who is not guilty of existing, and that is why it is important to watch your step.
Well, then there is no reason for you to go looking.
It is YOUR homework if you want to get the college degree. Why would anyone in their right mind go looking at older religions whose time/date stamp expired hundreds or thousands of years ago? Imo, that Bible should be put on the shelf, as it has seen its day.
I already did my homework 49 years ago, but I keep doing more homework as there is always more to learn.
Why do you think every theist has failed for the past 8000 years?
I am not saying you should, but sometimes I wonder why atheists are on a religious forum if they have no interest in God or religion.
No, I did not say that, pick your poison.
That was just the way I wrote the post because I was as always in a hurry.... I did not *just believe* like someone who goes shopping for a new pair of shoes. I did come to believe quicker than most Baha’is do though because I had no confirmation bias; since I had no religion growing up I was a blank slate open to seeing the Truth.
As I said, words in posts can be misconstrued and often are. That’s why we have more posts.
I was not suggesting you investigate all of them. I did not look at all the houses in town before I decided which one to purchase and I still have all three houses I purchased.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is correct. Baha'u'llah, Jesus, and Muhammad were Manifestations of God.
The evidence that God exists is and ever has been the *Person* of the Manifestation.
The Unseen God can never reveal His Essence to men.
The only way God can be known is through His Manifestation.
“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.” He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49
No, the Manifestation of God reveals the religion and later humans establish the religion. Here is an accurate definition of the nature of religion. That passage says a lot so let me know if you have any questions:
“And now concerning thy question regarding the nature of religion. Know thou that they who are truly wise have likened the world unto the human temple. As the body of man needeth a garment to clothe it, so the body of mankind must needs be adorned with the mantle of justice and wisdom. Its robe is the Revelation vouchsafed unto it by God. Whenever this robe hath fulfilled its purpose, the Almighty will assuredly renew it. For every age requireth a fresh measure of the light of God. Every Divine Revelation hath been sent down in a manner that befitted the circumstances of the age in which it hath appeared.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 81
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Whenever I say "atheists" I mean atheists in general, atheists I have known.
If it was meant to apply to you I would have used the word "you."
Sorry for the confusion.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Yes.
I agree that is kind of tricky. Christians have found a way around it by making Jesus into God, but Baha’is cannot do that with Baha’u’llah. So we are supposed to be able to relate to God on a personal level through Baha’u’llah, by reading and meditating upon what He wrote and saying prayers.
It means exactly what those words say.
All we can know about God are His Attributes which are revealed by and reflected in the Manifestations of God. They are like mirror images of God so if we see them we have seen God. That is why Jesus said “Anyone who has seen Me has seen the Father.”
Oh for crying out loud. Excuse me while I stop laughing. The very last thing Baha’u’llah was was self-serving. What do you think He got for Himself besides imprisonment, exile and banishment for 40 years as well as many attempts on His life?
I know we covered this before but apparently you need a reminder. Of course, everything He says in these passages can be verified by what He did on His mission:
“Who can ever believe that this Servant of God hath at any time cherished in His heart a desire for any earthly honor or benefit? The Cause associated with His Name is far above the transitory things of this world. Behold Him, an exile, a victim of tyranny, in this Most Great Prison. His enemies have assailed Him on every side, and will continue to do so till the end of His life. Whatever, therefore, He saith unto you is wholly for the sake of God, that haply the peoples of the earth may cleanse their hearts from the stain of evil desire, may rend its veil asunder, and attain unto the knowledge of the one true God—the most exalted station to which any man can aspire. Their belief or disbelief in My Cause can neither profit nor harm Me. We summon them wholly for the sake of God. He, verily, can afford to dispense with all creatures.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 85
“Incline your ears to the counsels which this Servant giveth you for the sake of God. He, verily, asketh no recompense from you and is resigned to what God hath ordained for Him, and is entirely submissive to God’s Will.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 127
“What! Believe ye in your hearts that ye possess the power to extinguish the radiance of the Sun, or to eclipse its splendor? Nay, by My life! Ye will never and can never achieve your purpose, though ye summon to your aid all that is in the heavens and all that is on the earth. Walk ye in the fear of God, and render not your works vain. Incline your ears to His words, and be not of them that are shut out as by a veil from Him. Say: God is My witness! I have wished nothing whatever for Myself. What I have wished is the victory of God and the triumph of His Cause. He is Himself a sufficient witness between you and Me. Were ye to cleanse your eyes, ye would readily perceive how My deeds testify to the truth of My words, how My words are a guide to My deeds.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 256-257
Do you think that David Koresh did anything for the sake of God?
As Jesus said, "you shall know them by their fruits."
Oh please. All you have to do is look at their character and their lives and their writings to see the difference. I cannot even believe you are saying this.
Not one man. Before Baha’u’llah came there was Muhammad and Jesus and Moses and others. They did not write their own scriptures but they were Manifestations of God.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
In my last post I was talking about John 3:16 and Jewish response, which is that Jews will never accept anyone as "the only begotten son of God." It seems to me that your above post is an attempt to avoid dealing with what I said.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
My theology doesn't have that idea, so it's a false equivalent to 'atheism'.
The English is interpreted in the way of a traditional belief, the english Bible just happens to use wording like that.
My belief is one Main God, with more than one form.
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dfnj
Well-Known Member
Hate much?
dfnj
Well-Known Member
Every religious text I've read defines God has being transcendent as well as being imminent. For an atheist to accept the existence of God, there is a presupposition God MUST be a certain way. And that way is like an "object" with boundaries. So for an atheist, they have a preexisting definition of God most theists do not use. Yet, the very essence of atheism is supposedly the simple idea of not having any belief in God or gods. What I have found is many atheists who are supposed to not having any belief in God have very STRONG opinions on what experiencing God in reality as evidence would be like.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I have experienced atheists like that, the ones I know seem to want objective proof of God as if He was a material being, an object, but most do not have any conception of what God would be like if god existed.
Neither do you. The image of a god you have constructed has no evidence to support it.