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Was Jesus Only Human?

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I'm not buying your self-serving "academic history" vs. the Bible. For instance, was Jerusalem sacked by King Nebuchadnezzar or not?

So here's my challenge to you:

Cite your best ONE (1 - just ONE, your best one) example of a fictitious person, place, or event in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Cite the pertinent scriptures and your evidence. Let's see that bad boy.
Don't you love it when someone shifts the burden of proof? It is a silent admission that they are wrong.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I'm not buying your self-serving "academic history" vs. the Bible. For instance, was Jerusalem sacked by King Nebuchadnezzar or not?

So here's my challenge to you:

Cite your best ONE (1 - just ONE, your best one) example of a fictitious person, place, or event in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Cite the pertinent scriptures and your evidence. Let's see that bad boy.

What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Once again, you're not being accurate. There is outside evidence for the darkness during the crucifixion of Jesus.

"Concerning the Samaritan-born historian Thallus, circa 52 A.D: (The writings of Thallus no longer exist, yet were alluded to by the historian Julius Africanus, as follows): “Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun – unreasonably, as it seems to me – unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of a full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.

Likewise, Africanus wrote concerning the writings of another first century historian by the name of Phlegon: “….during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.”

Phlegon is also mentioned by the historian Origen in his work, “Contra Celsum,” book 2, sections 14, 39, and 59: “Phlegon mentioned the eclipse that took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Christ….and this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar.” Apparently at one time there were historical accounts of the strange darkness that came over the land that were kept in the official archives of Tiberius Caesar, though they are likely lost to history.

Finally, the 2nd century Roman born jurist and theologian Tertullian referred to a Roman archives report of an “unexplained darkness that took place during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, as can be seen in the archives of Pontius Pilate.”

Documenting A Miracle
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Once again, you're not being accurate. There is outside evidence for the darkness during the crucifixion of Jesus.

"Concerning the Samaritan-born historian Thallus, circa 52 A.D: (The writings of Thallus no longer exist, yet were alluded to by the historian Julius Africanus, as follows): “Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun – unreasonably, as it seems to me – unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of a full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.

Likewise, Africanus wrote concerning the writings of another first century historian by the name of Phlegon: “….during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.”

Phlegon is also mentioned by the historian Origen in his work, “Contra Celsum,” book 2, sections 14, 39, and 59: “Phlegon mentioned the eclipse that took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Christ….and this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar.” Apparently at one time there were historical accounts of the strange darkness that came over the land that were kept in the official archives of Tiberius Caesar, though they are likely lost to history.

Finally, the 2nd century Roman born jurist and theologian Tertullian referred to a Roman archives report of an “unexplained darkness that took place during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, as can be seen in the archives of Pontius Pilate.”

Documenting A Miracle
Your source was not reliable. Try to find a source that is not a biased one. I could not find anything about this outside of that source. That should tell you something.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Need references and citations of academic historical references that show the research at the time of Jesus Christ life.

Still waiting . . .

Why do you live in darkness?

We have the Gospels and various epistles. We have eyewitness testimony from the apostles of Christ himself. And you - in your infinite wisdom - kick it all to the curb because it doesn't seem to fit your jack-legged, revisionist criteria.

Feel sad for you that the truth constantly eludes you.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why do you live in darkness?

We have the Gospels and various epistles. We have eyewitness testimony from the apostles of Christ himself. And you - in your infinite wisdom - kick it all to the curb because it doesn't seem to fit your jack-legged, revisionist criteria.

Feel sad for you that the truth constantly eludes you.
What "eyewitness testimony"? Real scholars know that there is none.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Why do you live in darkness?

We have the Gospels and various epistles. We have eyewitness testimony from the apostles of Christ himself. And you - in your infinite wisdom - kick it all to the curb because it doesn't seem to fit your jack-legged, revisionist criteria.

Feel sad for you that the truth constantly eludes you.

I feel sad for you that your idea of 'truth' is mere belief, nothing more.

So called 'eye witness' testimony is unreliable as I know for a fact. Nothing in the Bible can be believed to be factual unless there is verifiable evidence to support it, which in most cases there isn't.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I feel sad for you that your idea of 'truth' is mere belief, nothing more.

So called 'eye witness' testimony is unreliable as I know for a fact. Nothing in the Bible can be believed to be factual unless there is verifiable evidence to support it, which in most cases there isn't.
And that gospels simply are not eyewitness testimony. He knows this. He has been shown this.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Why do you live in darkness?

We have the Gospels and various epistles. We have eyewitness testimony from the apostles of Christ himself. And you - in your infinite wisdom - kick it all to the curb because it doesn't seem to fit your jack-legged, revisionist criteria.

Feel sad for you that the truth constantly eludes you.

Now coherent response concerning the topic at hand.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Once again, you're not being accurate. There is outside evidence for the darkness during the crucifixion of Jesus.

"Concerning the Samaritan-born historian Thallus, circa 52 A.D: (The writings of Thallus no longer exist, yet were alluded to by the historian Julius Africanus, as follows): “Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun – unreasonably, as it seems to me – unreasonably, of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of a full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ died.

Likewise, Africanus wrote concerning the writings of another first century historian by the name of Phlegon: “….during the time of Tiberius Caesar an eclipse of the sun occurred during the full moon.”

Phlegon is also mentioned by the historian Origen in his work, “Contra Celsum,” book 2, sections 14, 39, and 59: “Phlegon mentioned the eclipse that took place during the crucifixion of the Lord Christ….and this is shown by the historical account itself of Tiberius Caesar.” Apparently at one time there were historical accounts of the strange darkness that came over the land that were kept in the official archives of Tiberius Caesar, though they are likely lost to history.

Finally, the 2nd century Roman born jurist and theologian Tertullian referred to a Roman archives report of an “unexplained darkness that took place during the reign of Tiberius Caesar, as can be seen in the archives of Pontius Pilate.”

Documenting A Miracle

Unreliable third hand and worse source long after the supposed event. There are other natural occurrences that can darken the skies.

What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Still waiting . . .
 
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lukethethird

unknown member
Why do you live in darkness?

We have the Gospels and various epistles. We have eyewitness testimony from the apostles of Christ himself. And you - in your infinite wisdom - kick it all to the curb because it doesn't seem to fit your jack-legged, revisionist criteria.

Feel sad for you that the truth constantly eludes you.
We just don't know what the truth is and some haven't committed to believing for the sake of believing, which is something that some believers have difficulty dealing with. The New Testament is subject to interpretation, it's not a science, it's a religion, and completely concerned with religion and the beliefs that follow from that so don't expect everyone to believe what they've read in the NT.
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Still waiting . . .

Not surprised you kicked the evidences for the darkness during the crucifixion to the curb. That's your SOP.

As for evidence DURING Jesus lifetime - he wasn't all that famous then so you're out of touch with that. It wasn't until after the resurrection that he caught on with the masses.

As for "Still waiting" - I'm still waiting on you to cite your best ONE (1 - just ONE, your best one) example of a fictitious person, place, or event in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Cite the pertinent scriptures and your evidence. Let's see that bad boy.

Where's the beef?
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
So called 'eye witness' testimony is unreliable as I know for a fact.

People get sent up to prison every day due to eyewitness testimony.

In addition, next time your significant other pays you a visit remember to get some DNA for testing to see if it really is the one you think, because like you say, eyewitnesses are unreliable.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
People get sent up to prison every day due to eyewitness testimony.

In addition, next time your significant other pays you a visit remember to get some DNA for testing to see if it really is the one you think, because like you say, eyewitnesses are unreliable.

Oh dear, nurse where are you?
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Not surprised you kicked the evidences for the darkness during the crucifixion to the curb. That's your SOP.

As for evidence DURING Jesus lifetime - he wasn't all that famous then so you're out of touch with that. It wasn't until after the resurrection that he caught on with the masses.

As for "Still waiting" - I'm still waiting on you to cite your best ONE (1 - just ONE, your best one) example of a fictitious person, place, or event in the Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). Cite the pertinent scriptures and your evidence. Let's see that bad boy.

Where's the beef?

No coherent response.

What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Still waiting . . .
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
No coherent response.

What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Still waiting . . .

See here: Was Jesus Only Human?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
People get sent up to prison every day due to eyewitness testimony.

In addition, next time your significant other pays you a visit remember to get some DNA for testing to see if it really is the one you think, because like you say, eyewitnesses are unreliable.
And you do not have even that.

And rarely are murder convictions based solely on eyewitness testimony. In fact I doubt if you could find any.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member

No coherent response.

What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Still waiting . . .
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
No coherent response.

What you have failed to do is present the objective evidence outside the Bible to support the existence of Jesus during his lifetime.

One problem of the record in the gospels is there is no evidence outside the NT for the earthquake, resurrection of many? and darkness at time of the death of Jesus on the cross. None, zip nada, negatory and nothing. By the known evidence this is a fictitious event.

Still waiting . . .

Don't hold your breath, you aren't likely to get a sensible answer!
 
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