How is Yeshua not the false prophet?

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

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Jesus ben Ananias ("the son of Ananias") [rendered as the "son of Ananus" in the Whiston translation[1]] was a plebeian farmer, who, four years before the First Jewish-Roman War began in 66 AD, went around Jerusalem prophesying the city's destruction. The Jewish leaders of Jerusalem turned him over to the Romans, who tortured him.

The procurator Albinus took him to be a madman and released him. He continued his prophecy for more than seven years until he was killed by a stone from a catapult during the Roman siege of Jerusalem during the war. His name is rendered ישוע בן חנניה (Yeshua ben Hananiah) in modern Hebrew histories.

PruePhillip · Oct 15, 2019

sooda said:
Jesus called the destruction of Jerusalem the "the days of vengeance" (Luke 21:22). The destruction of Jerusalem was an act of God's vengeance and judgment, not Rome's; these would be the days when people were punished for their sins.

Jesus came for the lost Jews.. Isaiah is speaking of Judah.

Yes, Isaiah speaks of Judah many times. He speaks of Israel too.
And the Gentiles. And the Messiah.
You can conflate all these into one entity but you can't support the
argument.

If you like, you could put your ideas here for how Judah (person or
tribe or nation?) was born of a virgin, rejected by his brothers and
sisters, raised as a tender plant, despised and rejected by his own
people, led as a sheep to the slaughter, his hands and feet pierced,
died for his people, raised again, rejoiced to finish his course and
see his people redeemed.

PruePhillip · Oct 15, 2019

sooda said:
Jump to search

Jesus ben Ananias ("the son of Ananias") [rendered as the "son of Ananus" in the Whiston translation[1]] was a plebeian farmer, who, four years before the First Jewish-Roman War began in 66 AD, went around Jerusalem prophesying the city's destruction. The Jewish leaders of Jerusalem turned him over to the Romans, who tortured him.

The procurator Albinus took him to be a madman and released him. He continued his prophecy for more than seven years until he was killed by a stone from a catapult during the Roman siege of Jerusalem during the war. His name is rendered ישוע בן חנניה (Yeshua ben Hananiah) in modern Hebrew histories.

Yes, Jesus was a common name.

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

PruePhillip said:
Yes, Isaiah speaks of Judah many times. He speaks of Israel too.
And the Gentiles. And the Messiah.
You can conflate all these into one entity but you can't support the
argument.

If you like, you could put your ideas here for how Judah (person or
tribe or nation?) was born of a virgin, rejected by his brothers and
sisters, raised as a tender plant, despised and rejected by his own
people, led as a sheep to the slaughter, his hands and feet pierced,
died for his people, raised again, rejoiced to finish his course and
see his people redeemed.

Judah hated Israel.. Keep that in mind.

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

PruePhillip said:
Yes, Jesus was a common name.

The Bible Journey | Isaiah prophesies the destruction of Judah
https://thebiblejourney.org/biblejourney2/33-judah-after-the-fall-of-israel/isaiah...
Isaiah had prophesied that a time would come when the Babylonians would conquer Judah and carry away all its wealth. Hezekiah’s descendents would be taken away and would become eunuchs in the palace of the King of Babylon .

PruePhillip · Oct 15, 2019

sooda said:
Judah hated Israel.. Keep that in mind.

I wouldn't be surprised. After all, Israel crucified Judah. And Judah
lay down her life for Israel, and in her resurrection saw how she
had redeemed Israel to God. All this happened while the temple
was still standing. And Israel, scattered throughout the Middle
East as the ten lost tribes, were saved.

Is that the Sooda Theory?

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

PruePhillip said:
I wouldn't be surprised. After all, Israel crucified Judah. And Judah
lay down her life for Israel, and in her resurrection saw how she
had redeemed Israel to God. All this happened while the temple
was still standing. And Israel, scattered throughout the Middle
East as the ten lost tribes, were saved.

Is that the Sooda Theory?

No.. just notice how often in scripture the demonization shows up. Judah thought Israel was Hellenized half breeds and fake Jews.

Samantha Rinne · Oct 15, 2019

Desert Snake said:
Yes I know that, Jesus isn't really a "prophet". The idea there is just 'leader'.

You don't seem to understand what I just said. So I'm going to repeat it.

Jesus did not destroy the Temple. The Romans did. Your initial premise is wrong.

And you're splitting hairs when the point of a prophet is not simply leader but one who warns the Jews to change their ways.

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

Samantha Rinne said:
You don't seem to understand what I just said. So I'm going to repeat it.

Jesus did not destroy the Temple. The Romans did. Your initial premise is wrong.

And you're splitting hairs when the point of a prophet is not simply leader but one who warns the Jews to change their ways.

Jesus called the destruction of Jerusalem the "the days of vengeance" (Luke 21:22).

A Vestigial Mote · Oct 15, 2019

Desert Snake said:
This question derives from, if Yeshua got rid of the Temple, then how is Yeshua not the false prophet?

This is strange.

However, since it's really Herodian, leadership, then this is even stranger, ie it isn't the original Temple, anyway.

•••
Any clarity, here.

[As a note, any theory can be presented, scriptural or otherwise

I have an extremely simple answer, but you're probably not going to like it:

Q: "how is Yeshua not the false prophet?"
A: Because there are no such things as "prophets."

Can't be a false one if there are none. Problem solved.

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

A Vestigial Mote said:
I have an extremely simple answer, but you're probably not going to like it:

Q: "how is Yeshua not the false prophet?"
A: Because there are no such things as "prophets."

Can't be a false one if there are none. Problem solved.

Prophets weren't fortunetellers.. They couldn't see the future.. They were more like a conscience of the community.. observant and wise..

And, most prophecy was written after the fact.

Vāticinium ex ēventū (Ecclesiastical Latin: [vatiˈtʃini.um ɛks eˈvɛntu], "prophecy from the event") is a technical theological or historiographical term referring to a prophecy written after the author already had information about the events being "foretold".

The text is written so as to appear that the prophecy had taken place before the event, when in fact it was written after the events supposedly predicted.

There were lots of schools for prophets beginning with the time of Samuel.

Basically, you had an observant person who saw that if the people continued to do whatever it would end badly. Protestants don't always get that.

Desert Snake · Oct 15, 2019

Samantha Rinne said:
You don't seem to understand what I just said. So I'm going to repeat it.

Jesus did not destroy the Temple. The Romans did. Your initial premise is wrong.

And you're splitting hairs when the point of a prophet is not simply leader but one who warns the Jews to change their ways.

It can easily be read into the text, that it was Jesus, who caused the destruction of the Temple. It can also be read into the text, that He didn't.

If you read the answers, given, to the question, you would realize that many christians believe that the Temple was actually against christian concepts, of worship.

That is why, 'which Temple', was brought up, so forth.

You are giving the explanation that was already noted, ie it was the Romans, who destroyed the Temple.

So, if that's all the context you want to provide.
The premise says 'if', Jesus got rid of the Temple.

Desert Snake · Oct 15, 2019

Samantha Rinne said:
You don't seem to understand what I just said. So I'm going to repeat it.

Jesus did not destroy the Temple. The Romans did. Your initial premise is wrong.

And you're splitting hairs when the point of a prophet is not simply leader but one who warns the Jews to change their ways.

You didn't refute anything.
So, here is another 'interpretation'.

What did the centurion, "notice" at the crucifixion? The centurion 'notices' something, certainly not a veil, tearing. So it was something big. Ie the Temple, tearing in two. (At the middle part.

That is why the centurion says 'this was truly the Lord '.

Mark 15
Mark 15:38
Mark 15:39

Desert Snake · Oct 15, 2019

Mark 15:38
Mark 15:39

The centurion 'notices' something, which makes him exclaim loudly. Certainly not a veil tearing. No, it is the Temple, he notices, tearing in two, at the middle, ie 'at the veil' area. The centurion is a distance away from the Temple, the structure itself has to tear in two, for him to notice that.

1213 · Oct 15, 2019

Desert Snake said:
It can be derived from Scripture, that Jesus basically destroyed the Temple, because it was a den of thieves, thusly not worthy to be called God's Holy house.....

Sorry, I think there is nothing to support the idea of destruction. Jesus cleaned the temple, he told that it should be dedicated to God, not for all kind of other earthly business.

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

1213 said:
Sorry, I think there is nothing to support the idea of destruction. Jesus cleaned the temple, he told that it should be dedicated to God, not for all kind of other earthly business.

Luke 21:22 King James Version (KJV) 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

sooda · Oct 15, 2019

Desert Snake said:
That's the idea. However there is also the context, like Timothy's speech, where he seems to be saying, the Temple, [Solomons Temple, actually, is bad.

So there is context.

See Early Christian Writings

1 Timothy
At a Glance
Letter
Genre:
(3/5) ***
Reliability of Dating:
(2/5) **
Length of Text:
Greek
Original Language:
Ancient Translations:

Modern Translations:
English

Estimated Range of Dating: 100-150 A.D.

1 Timothy

PruePhillip · Oct 15, 2019

sooda said:
Estimated Range of Dating: 100-150 A.D.

1 Timothy

Hey, wait a minute. Paul wrote to Timothy, both of them were in the
Ministry. Paul knew Timothy's mother and grandmother.
Paul died ca 68 AD
.... and he wrote this letter about 125 AD.

You gotta' laugh, you really do.

1213 · Oct 16, 2019

sooda said:
Luke 21:22 King James Version (KJV) 22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Nice scripture, but it doesn’t say Jesus destroyed the temple.

sooda · Oct 16, 2019

1213 said:
Nice scripture, but it doesn’t say Jesus destroyed the temple.

I know.. The Romans and foreign legions did that..

How is Yeshua not the false prophet?

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