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I could never blame an atheist for being an atheist

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I probably should not post this today because I won’t have much time to answer posts after today, till the weekend, unless the posts are short. But I had a heartfelt feeling and I just had to share it.

These ideas for threads often come to me after a day in the trenches reading what people post and then it reaches critical mass when I see Christians arguing about *what the Bible means.* One Christian believes it means x, another one believes it means y, and another one believes it means z. These beliefs are contradictory so any logical person would know that either only one is right and all the others are wrong or they are all wrong.

Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe. The atheists are right that most belief is emotional, and this pertains more to Christians than to other believers because they are emotionally attached to Jesus. They are also attached to the belief that Jesus is going to return, after which time they will be resurrected and go to heaven or live forever on earth in a Garden of Eden, depending upon which belief they have. All this comes with a guarantee, because they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Who would want to give all that up unless they had a *reason* to give it up?

I cannot comment on other religions because I am not very familiar with them, but most Christians and Jews do not understand that they believe what they do mostly because of religious traditions they came to believe without question. Moreover, human behavior is driven more by emotion than by reason, so unless one makes a concerted effort to think rationally and overcome emotion that will not happen.

Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology. I just happen to have a lot of education in psychology and wore that hat much longer than any religion hat. I became a Baha’i based upon logic and reason, not emotion. It just made sense to me. I have no emotional attachment to Baha’u’llah or God. I should love God more but given all the suffering I see in the world that is difficult.

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? Just look at all the religions on this forum, and look at all the different beliefs within the same religion. Then there are believers who have no religion at all. How can any atheist be expected to parse this all out? If I was an atheist, I would probably just forget the whole thing, but then I was never very interested in God anyhow.

I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God, because it would be a near impossible feat. Of course, I think that God would guide them if they were sincere and made the effort, because that is what I believe. That does not mean they would end up believing in the true religion, but it sure would help.

““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

Now I want to post a passage that explains why people are so confused in this new age. Mind you, I do not fully understand what this passage means. For example I do not know why “This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation” or why “the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error.” Baha’u’llah’s Writings are often very deep and I am not very mystical, I am an analytical type of person.

“What “oppression” is greater than that which hath been recounted? What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind. As the traditions referred to are well known, and as the purpose of this servant is to be brief, He will refrain from quoting the text of these traditions.” The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 31-32


You are makeing several negative accusations here that are rather arrogant.

Assumption that people do not understand emotion, logic and reason for whatever your 'superior' reasoning is.

Assumption that an atheist has not studied religion, i think you will find many atheist have studied several religions to some degree or other, and for various reasons. And are generally far more conversant with various religion than most religious people who are only interested in their own.

Assumption that because atheist gave no belief in god they are inferior to those who believe in bronze age mythology or a volcano or a planet in the night sky
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
You are makeing several negative accusations here that are rather arrogant.

Assumption that people do not understand emotion, logic and reason for whatever your 'superior' reasoning is.

Assumption that an atheist has not studied religion, i think you will find many atheist have studied several religions to some degree or other, and for various reasons. And are generally far more convenient with various religion than most religious people who are only interested in their own.

Assumption that because atheist gave no belief in god they are inferior to those who believe in bronze age mythology or a volcano or a planet in the night sky
I was making no accusations at all, I was only making observations.

I make no such assumptions that my reasoning is superior to anyone else's.

I only made the observation that Imo many people do not understand why they believe what they do, and that it is based upon emotions. It was atheists who have pointed this out to be.

I made no assumption that atheists have not studied religions or that atheists are ignorant of religions. I am only stating what atheists have posted to others or told me directly, because how else could I know what atheists think? I do not assume what people think, I listen to what they say. They say they are confused about which religion they would pick, if they were to pick any religion, because there are so many religions, each with different beliefs.

Finally, I made no assumption that because atheists gave no belief in god they are inferior to those who believe in bronze age mythology or a volcano or a planet in the night sky, and in fact I was saying the exact opposite of that. I was saying that it makes sense to withhold belief given the religions that have been offered, especially the bronze age religions based upon an ancient text that is so confusing nobody who believes in it can even agree as to what it means. The sad thing is that apparently that is the only religion I hear anyone discussing so I tend to think that is the only one atheists consider a viable option.... but of course I could be wrong, since I do not know what others are thinking, only what they say in posts.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I was making no accusations at all, I was only making observations.

I make no such assumptions that my reasoning is superior to anyone else's.

I only made the observation that Imo many people do not understand why they believe what they do, and that it is based upon emotions. It was atheists who have pointed this out to be.

I made no assumption that atheists have not studied religions or that atheists are ignorant of religions. I am only stating what atheists have posted to others or told me directly, because how else could I know what atheists think? I do not assume what people think, I listen to what they say. They say they are confused about which religion they would pick, if they were to pick any religion, because there are so many religions, each with different beliefs.

Finally, I made no assumption that because atheists gave no belief in god they are inferior to those who believe in bronze age mythology or a volcano or a planet in the night sky, and in fact I was saying the exact opposite of that. I was saying that it makes sense to withhold belief given the religions that have been offered, especially the bronze age religions based upon an ancient text that is so confusing nobody who believes in it can even agree as to what it means. The sad thing is that apparently that is the only religion I hear anyone discussing so I tend to think that is the only one atheists consider a viable option.... but of course I could be wrong, since I do not know what others are thinking, only what they say in posts.

Either way, you defame on your "observations" which are decidedly incorrect

I suggest you re-read you own post. I am sure you didnt realise how you wrote it but you wrote it

i quote your OP

"Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology"​

"How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? "​

"I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God"

So how does it read to you?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Either way, you defame on your "observations" which are decidedly incorrect

I suggest you re-read you own post. I am sure you didnt realise how you wrote it but you wrote it

i quote your OP

"Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology"​

"How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? "​

"I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God"

So how does it read to you?
I know what I wrote and what I meant by what I wrote.
Those were my observations solely based upon what people say.
I was just trying to put myself in the shoes of an atheist based upon what they say.
They were my heartfelt feelings towards atheists.
I have a right to my feelings.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I know what I wrote and what I meant by what I wrote.
Those were my observations solely based upon what people say.
I was just trying to put myself in the shoes of an atheist based upon what they say.
They were my heartfelt feelings towards atheists.
I have a right to my feelings.

If you say so, i could not excuse myself so easily
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I probably should not post this today because I won’t have much time to answer posts after today, till the weekend, unless the posts are short. But I had a heartfelt feeling and I just had to share it.

These ideas for threads often come to me after a day in the trenches reading what people post and then it reaches critical mass when I see Christians arguing about *what the Bible means.* One Christian believes it means x, another one believes it means y, and another one believes it means z. These beliefs are contradictory so any logical person would know that either only one is right and all the others are wrong or they are all wrong.

Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe. The atheists are right that most belief is emotional, and this pertains more to Christians than to other believers because they are emotionally attached to Jesus. They are also attached to the belief that Jesus is going to return, after which time they will be resurrected and go to heaven or live forever on earth in a Garden of Eden, depending upon which belief they have. All this comes with a guarantee, because they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Who would want to give all that up unless they had a *reason* to give it up?

I cannot comment on other religions because I am not very familiar with them, but most Christians and Jews do not understand that they believe what they do mostly because of religious traditions they came to believe without question. Moreover, human behavior is driven more by emotion than by reason, so unless one makes a concerted effort to think rationally and overcome emotion that will not happen.

Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology. I just happen to have a lot of education in psychology and wore that hat much longer than any religion hat. I became a Baha’i based upon logic and reason, not emotion. It just made sense to me. I have no emotional attachment to Baha’u’llah or God. I should love God more but given all the suffering I see in the world that is difficult.

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? Just look at all the religions on this forum, and look at all the different beliefs within the same religion. Then there are believers who have no religion at all. How can any atheist be expected to parse this all out? If I was an atheist, I would probably just forget the whole thing, but then I was never very interested in God anyhow.

I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God, because it would be a near impossible feat. Of course, I think that God would guide them if they were sincere and made the effort, because that is what I believe. That does not mean they would end up believing in the true religion, but it sure would help.

““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

Now I want to post a passage that explains why people are so confused in this new age. Mind you, I do not fully understand what this passage means. For example I do not know why “This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation” or why “the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error.” Baha’u’llah’s Writings are often very deep and I am not very mystical, I am an analytical type of person.

“What “oppression” is greater than that which hath been recounted? What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind. As the traditions referred to are well known, and as the purpose of this servant is to be brief, He will refrain from quoting the text of these traditions.” The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 31-32

Emotionality is unavoidable. In Jungian psychology outbursts of emotionality or "affect" are seen as problematic BUT they are also seen as vital clues to the particular bias or configuration of the individual psyche. These emotionally charged parts of ourself require our acknowledgement and attention. They offer us spiritual riches if we dare to encounter them.

One poster here recently spoke of how they found a way around an inner "selfish" dark voice by focusing on the "right" sort of inspiration in the area of music. I felt that they may be missing an opportunity by circumventing this font of darkness and not trying to encounter it. By listening only to positive music one may defend ones self against the depth of ones own soul.

I will readily admit that feelings of despair have driven my own faith. I think that suffering is a common denominator behind religious faith. But those who do not fully acknowledge their suffering or who do not take their interest in fantasies or fictions seriously may also be actively denying a need for spiritual truth. Rampant literalism doesnt help in that it muddles spiritual play with the boast of "one way" factuality.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267
Neither need any blessings nor any guidance. :)
It's interesting, though, that there are those who blame God for not being chosen when it's entirely possible that God "chooses" anyone who pays attention (or more accurately, those who pay attention realize it's not "God" that does the choosing). :)
An attention-seeker God. :)
 
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HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
These ideas for threads often come to me after a day in the trenches reading what people post and then it reaches critical mass when I see Christians arguing about *what the Bible means.*
Isn’t Baha’I essentially based on one man presenting his own argument of what it all means?

The atheists are right that…
Atheists don’t all say the same thing beyond the one and only thing which entirely defines the term. Anytime you want to say atheists do something, consider how it would sound to say theists do that thing. If it sounds ridiculously generalised with theists, it is ridiculously generalised with atheists too. There terms are direct opposites and both are rarely relevant or appropriate terms to defined specific groups of people.

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true?
Why do you assume atheists want or need to figure out which religion is true? Why do you assume atheists can’t already follow a religion they’d presumably already satisfied themselves of the truth of? Are you sure you’re really talking about atheists at all?

I don’t claim to speak for anyone else but I don’t really care what is actually true and I certainly don’t expect any of us could or will ever know. I do care what people actually do and when they believe they’ve determined the one true religion, that can significantly impact what they do, often for the worse. The only truth I’d like to convince people of is our own ignorance. The problem is that is a scarier prospect than any god, demon of hell you might care to imagine. :cool:
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
I probably should not post this today because I won’t have much time to answer posts after today, till the weekend, unless the posts are short. But I had a heartfelt feeling and I just had to share it.

These ideas for threads often come to me after a day in the trenches reading what people post and then it reaches critical mass when I see Christians arguing about *what the Bible means.* One Christian believes it means x, another one believes it means y, and another one believes it means z. These beliefs are contradictory so any logical person would know that either only one is right and all the others are wrong or they are all wrong.

Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe. The atheists are right that most belief is emotional, and this pertains more to Christians than to other believers because they are emotionally attached to Jesus. They are also attached to the belief that Jesus is going to return, after which time they will be resurrected and go to heaven or live forever on earth in a Garden of Eden, depending upon which belief they have. All this comes with a guarantee, because they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Who would want to give all that up unless they had a *reason* to give it up?

I cannot comment on other religions because I am not very familiar with them, but most Christians and Jews do not understand that they believe what they do mostly because of religious traditions they came to believe without question. Moreover, human behavior is driven more by emotion than by reason, so unless one makes a concerted effort to think rationally and overcome emotion that will not happen.

Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology. I just happen to have a lot of education in psychology and wore that hat much longer than any religion hat. I became a Baha’i based upon logic and reason, not emotion. It just made sense to me. I have no emotional attachment to Baha’u’llah or God. I should love God more but given all the suffering I see in the world that is difficult.

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? Just look at all the religions on this forum, and look at all the different beliefs within the same religion. Then there are believers who have no religion at all. How can any atheist be expected to parse this all out? If I was an atheist, I would probably just forget the whole thing, but then I was never very interested in God anyhow.

I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God, because it would be a near impossible feat. Of course, I think that God would guide them if they were sincere and made the effort, because that is what I believe. That does not mean they would end up believing in the true religion, but it sure would help.

““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

Now I want to post a passage that explains why people are so confused in this new age. Mind you, I do not fully understand what this passage means. For example I do not know why “This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation” or why “the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error.” Baha’u’llah’s Writings are often very deep and I am not very mystical, I am an analytical type of person.

“What “oppression” is greater than that which hath been recounted? What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind. As the traditions referred to are well known, and as the purpose of this servant is to be brief, He will refrain from quoting the text of these traditions.” The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 31-32

Can God blame atheists for spreading atheistic views to others? Is that okay?
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I probably should not post this today because I won’t have much time to answer posts after today, till the weekend, unless the posts are short. But I had a heartfelt feeling and I just had to share it.

These ideas for threads often come to me after a day in the trenches reading what people post and then it reaches critical mass when I see Christians arguing about *what the Bible means.* One Christian believes it means x, another one believes it means y, and another one believes it means z. These beliefs are contradictory so any logical person would know that either only one is right and all the others are wrong or they are all wrong.

Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe. The atheists are right that most belief is emotional, and this pertains more to Christians than to other believers because they are emotionally attached to Jesus. They are also attached to the belief that Jesus is going to return, after which time they will be resurrected and go to heaven or live forever on earth in a Garden of Eden, depending upon which belief they have. All this comes with a guarantee, because they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Who would want to give all that up unless they had a *reason* to give it up?

I cannot comment on other religions because I am not very familiar with them, but most Christians and Jews do not understand that they believe what they do mostly because of religious traditions they came to believe without question. Moreover, human behavior is driven more by emotion than by reason, so unless one makes a concerted effort to think rationally and overcome emotion that will not happen.

Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology. I just happen to have a lot of education in psychology and wore that hat much longer than any religion hat. I became a Baha’i based upon logic and reason, not emotion. It just made sense to me. I have no emotional attachment to Baha’u’llah or God. I should love God more but given all the suffering I see in the world that is difficult.

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true? Just look at all the religions on this forum, and look at all the different beliefs within the same religion. Then there are believers who have no religion at all. How can any atheist be expected to parse this all out? If I was an atheist, I would probably just forget the whole thing, but then I was never very interested in God anyhow.

I do not expect any atheist to figure out which religion is true unless they are really enthusiastic about believing in God, because it would be a near impossible feat. Of course, I think that God would guide them if they were sincere and made the effort, because that is what I believe. That does not mean they would end up believing in the true religion, but it sure would help.

““Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267

Now I want to post a passage that explains why people are so confused in this new age. Mind you, I do not fully understand what this passage means. For example I do not know why “This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation” or why “the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error.” Baha’u’llah’s Writings are often very deep and I am not very mystical, I am an analytical type of person.

“What “oppression” is greater than that which hath been recounted? What “oppression” is more grievous than that a soul seeking the truth, and wishing to attain unto the knowledge of God, should know not where to go for it and from whom to seek it? For opinions have sorely differed, and the ways unto the attainment of God have multiplied. This “oppression” is the essential feature of every Revelation. Unless it cometh to pass, the Sun of Truth will not be made manifest. For the break of the morn of divine guidance must needs follow the darkness of the night of error. For this reason, in all chronicles and traditions reference hath been made unto these things, namely that iniquity shall cover the surface of the earth and darkness shall envelop mankind. As the traditions referred to are well known, and as the purpose of this servant is to be brief, He will refrain from quoting the text of these traditions.” The Kitab-i-Iqan, pp. 31-32

This oppression is spoken of by William James in his book The Varieties of Religious Experience. You might check out Lecture VIII:

The Project Gutenberg EBook of The Varieties of Religious Experience by William James
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
It's interesting, though, that there are those who blame God for not being chosen when it's entirely possible that God "chooses" anyone who pays attention (or more accurately, those who pay attention realize it's not "God" that does the choosing). :)
What about those of us who couldn't care less what God chooses in any circumstance unless the effects of His choices can actually be demonstrated to:
A. Have truly been His choices in the first place
B. To truly have been the direct cause of the effect

?
Count me in this number. Don't care until someone can actually demonstrate to me why I should care. Note I did not say "tell me" why I should care - talk is so cheap we may as well call it "free." I want a demonstration, evidence, dependability/reproduce-ability, fundamental explanations for items of reality that cannot rationally be denied - something more than hearsay for goodness sake. Can't produce that? I don't care. Don't care.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think it would be more accurate to say that God guides those who He knows will be guide-able.
Which may be that atheism is more in touch with God than all the religions that claim they are the truth to the exclusion of all other perspectives. Have you ever considered that atheism may be more spiritually awake than most religions?

BTW, I'm going to respond to you OP later, perhaps, but will just say this right now. All beliefs are subjectively held, regardless if they are "objective" or not. They are all "beliefs" and those are held by the individual themselves, making them both subjective and emotional, be they beliefs in a theistic reality, or a non-theistic reality. They are still beliefs in the nature of reality. So your premise sort of falls apart at that point.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@Trailblazer , you rated my previous post "Creative", but I think that it comes with the premise.

If Ibrahim/Abraham's God somehow exists, he clearly did not "come for everyone" equally. The very fact that the creeds that refer to that God rely so much on intermediaries (in the form of prophets and written revelations) is witness to that simple reality.

Even more significant is that so many people reach so many wildly divergent conclusions while referring to either the Bible or the Qur'an (I see Judaism as a bit of a special case). How interested can a hypothetical ominipotent God be in reaching all people if he apparently can't be bothered to achieve a clear message even for those who go out of their way to refer to him?
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I would never blame an atheist for not believing because the Bible teaches that God calls those who He wants. This implies that He does NOT call everyone. Atheists are those God has not called. It is not thier fault.

In the same way, reason did not call the theists :)

Ciao

- viole
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Of course it usually takes an atheist to parse this out because those believers who *want to believe* something will find a way to interpret the Bible so they can believe what they want to believe. The atheists are right that most belief is emotional, and this pertains more to Christians than to other believers because they are emotionally attached to Jesus.
As I touched on in my previous post, all beliefs are subjectively held, be they beliefs in a theistic reality, or beliefs in a non-theistic reality. They are still both beliefs about reality, with a different colored sky is all. They are both held individually, which makes them subjective, regardless of the degree of corroborating support they have, anywhere from 0% to 100%.

As subjective beliefs, they are all held with emotional investments to one degree or another. An individual cares about the return of what he believes in. None are absent of any emotional investment. As such, everything seen through that lens of belief, will be colorized by that emotional investment, be that theistic or atheistic in nature. They are not opposites in this regard, just different flavors of the same base ice cream recipe.

They are also attached to the belief that Jesus is going to return, after which time they will be resurrected and go to heaven or live forever on earth in a Garden of Eden, depending upon which belief they have. All this comes with a guarantee, because they were saved by the blood of Jesus. Who would want to give all that up unless they had a *reason* to give it up?
Not all Christians believe all that is literally true. A great many understand them as metaphors for spiritual truths, not literal places, or literal blood sacrifices to appease a god's literal anger and such. Many understand those as spiritual truths spoken through the vehicle of cultural mythologies, that don't need to be taken literally.

I cannot comment on other religions because I am not very familiar with them, but most Christians and Jews do not understand that they believe what they do mostly because of religious traditions they came to believe without question. Moreover, human behavior is driven more by emotion than by reason, so unless one makes a concerted effort to think rationally and overcome emotion that will not happen.
Most people, yourself included, do not thoroughly investigate everything they are told. We would get nowhere in life if we had to rationally dissect everything we were told as a truth. We all adopt the perspectives of the larger group, unless we have a need due to some conflict, to critically examine something. All you are describing is not "overcoming emotion", but rather challenging the framework. The emotion is still there, just invested in resolving a conflict. You don't "get rid of the emotion", you redirect it.

Most people do not understand the emotional component of belief because most people do not have an in depth understanding of psychology.
I would simplify that to say, most people are not motivated enough to do the hard work of developing self-awareness, to where we question reality as it has been programmed for us through culture. Very few see the man behind the curtain, as it were.

Understanding psychology and how the mind works, can help, but it's the tension between beliefs and application in the real world that is the real driving force. How uncomfortable the person is because of that, will determine the investment of struggle. Most people choose to ignore it, and say, "good enough" and go on their way. Safety found in the mass-illusion, is preferable to being alone in a raft in the middle of an empty ocean, for most people.

I just happen to have a lot of education in psychology and wore that hat much longer than any religion hat. I became a Baha’i based upon logic and reason, not emotion. It just made sense to me.
Nonsense. I do not believe this. I do not believe it either when an atheist says they followed logic and reason and that is what led them to reject religion. No. That is what it may "seem", if we ignore emotional motivations. However logically, let's' examine this.

If people are satisfied with their current beliefs, if they are bringing fulfillment and the sense of security that belief systems offer, then they are not going to deliberately choose to critically examine them and seek out flaws. That would introduce tension and conflict, which results in emotional distress. Aside from a masochist who seeks out to inflict pain and displeasure for some sort of exciting stimulus, most everyone else seeks to avoid conflict and emotional pain. Challenging one's belief systems, is very much an emotionally disruptive experience. Losing one's faith, is a painful, and frightening thing to experience.

Here's what I see really happens. Everything they believe is "true" so long as it works for them in their situation. It's only when it is failing to do so, only when the emotional stress of that failure is sufficiently strong enough that it will lead them to "examine" the belief, in order to try to resolve it. They need to find a better system, that where they are at as a person can find a new ground of reality to "believe in".

So then, first motivated by emotional conflict,they will bring in the rational mind to help examine what is wrong with the picture that is causing this emotional distress. Once reason provides some possible resolution by finding a new framework of understanding, then the emotion can be satisfied with the new belief structure to find it's sense of equilibrium again.

So no, logic and reason do not guide us into truth. It's emotions at the base that call upon them to help resolve an emotional conflict. Emotions are at the base of all of it. People do not question beliefs when they are happy with them.

I have no emotional attachment to Baha’u’llah or God. I should love God more but given all the suffering I see in the world that is difficult.
Surely, you have some emotional reward for believing what you are. If not, then why bother?

How the hell could any atheist ever figure out which religion is true, or if any religion is true?
By following their heart. And to make it clear, it is figuring out what it truth for them. There is no "true religion" objectively outside subjective emotional truth. To me, your religion fails to meet the need, so it is not "true" for me, or any others it doesn't speak truth to. It speaks truth to you in some way. From a purely logical argument, it does not stand the test of a dispassionate examination. No religion does. Nor does atheism either.

Just look at all the religions on this forum, and look at all the different beliefs within the same religion. Then there are believers who have no religion at all. How can any atheist be expected to parse this all out?
If they are aware enough about the nature of truth and relativism. If they are, then they don't need to figure out which one is "right", because such criteria is an illusion to begin with.

If I was an atheist, I would probably just forget the whole thing, but then I was never very interested in God anyhow.
Which then begs the question, why did you join a religion? I think there are things about yourself you may not really be in touch with if you think you were not motivated by some need to believe in God. Unless, you're just in it purely for the aesthetics, and are effectively an atheist?
 

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Weakness and strength of God's religion, depends on how manifest the proof of it is.

In the phases of nights, there is excuse.
In the phases of days, who witnesses them, has no excuse.

What is a day? It's when miracles are manifestly in the open, like Moses splitting the sea type miracles. That high level type miracles, if met with opposition leads to the night.

When God hides his miracles and proofs is hidden, and harder to see, only a few can perceive the religion as what it meant to be. Even clear reminders of God's existence become ambiguous when no guide is clarifying and presenting miracles.


Long story short, we are in a very dark night, and so must not judge any human, an Atheist maybe excused, a polytheist maybe excused, etc, it's not the same.

God doesn't forgive polytheism, but under certain conditions only.

If God provided day all the time with clear signs, we would have long perished because we chose to rebel.

If God provided night all the time, we would never get light to seek guidance from.

It's a balance.

God can manifest miracles, there are reasons right now, access to them is not in the public ability but only for some humans who are striving for God and turning to him often, God will guide them by the hands of his Guide on earth.

And disbelief is condemned in Quran in context of that it was a day.

Of course, the night doesn't excuse everyone. Some people have the ability and know how to search for God, but if they choose to go against their knowledge, they will be accounted for.
 
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