• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Attempted Robbery

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
You have not answered my question.

Where a company allows its employees to bring guns to work, does employee error, abuse and accident get full public liability insurance cover by the employer, or is the employee expected to take out personal liability cover?

I wonder what such insurance cover would cost....? In fact, I'll bet that most companies would not consider paying such a premium, nor the employees.

I wouldn't go anywhere near a drive thru' takeaway in the small hours if I knew that the staff were allowed to carry guns.

I suppose if any employer prohibits their store clerks from being able to defend themselves from armed-robbers, then such employers should face a liability if one of their clerks were to get slaughtered without any chance of the store employee being able to defend himself/herself or bystanders with a comparable weapon used on them by their assailant.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I suppose if any employer prohibits their store clerks from being able to defend themselves from armed-robbers, then such employers should face a liability if one of their clerks were to get slaughtered without any chance of the store employee being able to defend himself/herself or bystanders with a comparable weapon used on them by their assailant.

Companies in the UK have to show that they have full 'all risks' Public Liability Insurance cover and all employees are protected for all risks while on the store premises. Some employers give cover to employees as soon as they leave home to travel to work.

All companies have to show a Certificate of Cover in their reception or other public areas of their company branches including the address of their registered offices.

But no retail employees in the UK are permitted or insured to bring any firearms to work! A very few employees in special security work are trained, qualified and insured to have night-sticks while on duty in very high-risk jobs...... but only on company property where there is no public access and where security provisions make it almost impossible for intruders to enter.

If your employees are allowed to bring guns to work then 'bad shootings' are probably happening in your country to honest customers.

There are ways to increase protection for employees in any country, and I would be pleased to help you with those, so if you have any scenarios of high-risk to offer (even in youir country, crammed full of firearms) then show them and let's see what could be done to increase employee safety, deter conflict and reduce conflict when it does happen. But armed lay people who are untrained, unsuited to conflict etc is not that best way forward.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Companies in the UK have to show that they have full 'all risks' Public Liability Insurance cover and all employees are protected for all risks while on the store premises. Some employers give cover to employees as soon as they leave home to travel to work.

All companies have to show a Certificate of Cover in their reception or other public areas of their company branches including the address of their registered offices.

But no retail employees in the UK are permitted or insured to bring any firearms to work! A very few employees in special security work are trained, qualified and insured to have night-sticks while on duty in very high-risk jobs...... but only on company property where there is no public access and where security provisions make it almost impossible for intruders to enter.

If your employees are allowed to bring guns to work then 'bad shootings' are probably happening in your country to honest customers.

There are ways to increase protection for employees in any country, and I would be pleased to help you with those, so if you have any scenarios of high-risk to offer (even in youir country, crammed full of firearms) then show them and let's see what could be done to increase employee safety, deter conflict and reduce conflict when it does happen. But armed lay people who are untrained, unsuited to conflict etc is not that best way forward.

We still have a bit of a Wild West attitude here. The sort of responsibility that you posted about sounds like a good idea, but does not exist here. That would take away many of the excuses for self arming. And the number of bad shootings is very very small. Far less than the crime rate so maybe an argument could be made for an employee that protects himself. but if we had your system there would be no need to do so. Instructions for what to do in case of a robbery would be clear. Very very few in the robbery business ever want to shoot someone because they know that causes heat to come down on them from all sides.

Quite often I realize that our system is penny wise but pound foolish.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
"A Dollar General clerk is resting at home today after he shot and killed an armed robber in the Dayton, Ohio store where he worked.

The police said that they did not arrest the clerk because he acted legally, and in self-defense."

dollar store clerk shoots armed robber - Yahoo Search Results

The above incident demonstrates a well-armed store clerk with a gun can stop a would-be robber with a gun.

Kudos to Dollar Store for allowing its clerks to be well-armed and put down a bad guy who shoves a gun into the faces of store clerks.
"let the hospital take care of it" isn't good heart attack risk management. It's not good with our gun problem either, to let hopes fix it once it's too late.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
We still have a bit of a Wild West attitude here. The sort of responsibility that you posted about sounds like a good idea, but does not exist here. That would take away many of the excuses for self arming. And the number of bad shootings is very very small. Far less than the crime rate so maybe an argument could be made for an employee that protects himself. but if we had your system there would be no need to do so. Instructions for what to do in case of a robbery would be clear. Very very few in the robbery business ever want to shoot someone because they know that causes heat to come down on them from all sides.

Quite often I realize that our system is penny wise but pound foolish.

Armed Robbery in countries that have lots of access to guns must mean that higher security measures are needed for employee, customer and property protection.

I have noticed (mostly in films) that many security officers and Value-in-Transit officers in the US are armed.

Mandatory Insurance cover for gun users (in the US) does seem to be gaining ground now, and I reckon that your whole country may be enforcing such insurance within a decade. Personal cover is inexpensive at this time, but 'employee at work' cover could be huge for companies to bear, and they might need to think of other ways to handle robbery risk.

I knew the head of security for a huge betting shop company in the UK. When he joined the company attacks on staff were occurring daily and the cost of installing anti-bandit protection around every staff kiosk was an impossible financial mountain for them. He saw this problem from a different perspective, because he had visited betting shops anmd watched hlow staff treated customers. When behind glass some staff were rude and careless to customers and this was causing many of the problems. He ordered all screening to be removed from hundreds of branches, and all staff received 'Customer Care' and 'Conflict Reduction' training in their stores. The attacks stopped ...... they just stopped! Obviously this is different to robbery scenarios, but most retailers in the UK have counter-caches ..... a kind of safe which can receive currency notes while not being opened. In robbery attempts the staff just step back, comply absolutely with the demands being made but point out that they can't get in to these safes any more than the robbers can...... and they throw open their tills for robbers to snatch what they can get. My local Bank has just ripped out all of its 'Teller screens' and installed open desks for tellers.

A till with just a basic 'float' and change is a much smaller loss than the compensation for severe injury or death of an employee.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Armed Robbery in countries that have lots of access to guns must mean that higher security measures are needed for employee, customer and property protection.

I have noticed (mostly in films) that many security officers and Value-in-Transit officers in the US are armed.

Mandatory Insurance cover for gun users (in the US) does seem to be gaining ground now, and I reckon that your whole country may be enforcing such insurance within a decade. Personal cover is inexpensive at this time, but 'employee at work' cover could be huge for companies to bear, and they might need to think of other ways to handle robbery risk.

I knew the head of security for a huge betting shop company in the UK. When he joined the company attacks on staff were occurring daily and the cost of installing anti-bandit protection around every staff kiosk was an impossible financial mountain for them. He saw this problem from a different perspective, because he had visited betting shops anmd watched hlow staff treated customers. When behind glass some staff were rude and careless to customers and this was causing many of the problems. He ordered all screening to be removed from hundreds of branches, and all staff received 'Customer Care' and 'Conflict Reduction' training in their stores. The attacks stopped ...... they just stopped! Obviously this is different to robbery scenarios, but most retailers in the UK have counter-caches ..... a kind of safe which can receive currency notes while not being opened. In robbery attempts the staff just step back, comply absolutely with the demands being made but point out that they can't get in to these safes any more than the robbers can...... and they throw open their tills for robbers to snatch what they can get. My local Bank has just ripped out all of its 'Teller screens' and installed open desks for tellers.

A till with just a basic 'float' and change is a much smaller loss than the compensation for severe injury or death of an employee.
One note, most store security that I have seen are unarmed. Perhaps banks and casinos are different. I have never seen a guard in my personal banks, armed or not. But every armored car worker that I have seen is armed. Never saw one with his gun out, but they are obviously holstered on the hips.
 
Top