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(Muslims only) Mary the nabiyyya (prophetess) of Christianity and Islam?

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Very much debate within the scholarship of the Muslim community has speculated whether or not Mary the mother of Jesus, was considered a prophet. A very small minority within the Shi'ite tradition (and Sunni) believe she is in accordance to verses in the Qur'an. Firstly, allow me to define the difference between a prophet (Anbiya) and messenger (Rasul). According to the Islamic tradition, a prophet is someone who receives revelation from divine providence, and a messenger is one who is given a message to deliver. So in essence a prophet is just one who receives a message from God but is not required to spread it, while a messenger is one who receives such a revelation and is given the task to spread it.

But what is the criteria of prophet-hood according to Islam?

1) Prophets receive revelation from divine providence that is assuredly from the Creator.

2) All prophets have a noble character

3) Prophets perform miracles

4) All prophets are devout

5) All prophets carry the same message as previous prophets


According to the Qur'an, it would appear that Mary qualified for all three:

"And (mention) when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed God has chosen you, purified you, and chosen you above the women of the worlds.’ ‘O Mary, be devoutly obedient to your Lord and prostrate and bow down along those who bow down (in prayer).’ That is from the news of the unseen which We reveal to you, [O Muhammad]. And you were not with them when they cast their pens as to which of them should be responsible for Mary. Nor were you with them when they disputed,” (Quran 3:42-44).

What was the miracle she performed?

Giving birth to Jesus. Her body was uniquely "blessed" to spontaneously create a living organism that gestated into a developed human baby. No other woman or human in recorded history has ever done that so I'd argue that although God has given her body the ability to perform this act, it was through Mary's body alone that has done that. We see in the Qur'an when Mary questions Gabriel on how she would have the ability to birth a child:


"She said, “My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?” [The angel] said, “Such is Allah; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is."

Surah 3:45-51

What are your thoughts?
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
If I were you I'd put this in same faith debates and confine the argument to a specific group such as Christians, Jews and Muslims or just Muslims etc. Personally I've absolutely no idea how to make a contribution to a debate that would never occur in my circles.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This was not unique to Mariam (as), Sarah (as) was given offspring in old age through supernatural means (too old to have kids). Same with Zakariya's (as) wife, Elizabeth (as).

The truth is Mariam (as) was chosen to be a huge trial that put children of Israel in a spot where they either believe in the miracles of Jesus and don't accuse him of sorcery, or they would have to a long with that accuse the best woman on earth, Mariam (as).

Mariam (as) is an Ayah, and Imam only in the sense that she guides by Amrallah, but she is not a Nabi or Rasool because a Nabi is one who receives a revelation to be held on as a divine book from God by the people and a Rasool is who conveys the message of God on behalf of God to people.


I think Nubuwa and Resalah interrelate and almost all the time are combined but are two different things.

A Rasool can be a Nabi.
A Nabi can be a Rasool.
A Nabi may not be Rasool.
A Rasool may not be a Nabi.,

All these are true. It's a false dichotomy, that one has to imply the other.

A Nabi that is not a Rasool is revealing a divine book but the divine book and his guidance, is not to revive the message to people nor to spread to people unaware of the message.
A Rasool that is not a Nabi is just conveying the message without a divine book, an easy example, would be the Mursaleen in Suratal Yaseen, only one believer, there may not be need of a divine book to be held on to by the people but just reveal words of God to him and not a book to safeguard which would be putting the man in a hard spot.

And when they are both, which is 99.999999999999999999% of the time, it's when they deliver the message a long with revealing a revelation from God that has the message which they explain and manifest as well. This is the case almost all the time.

It has to be a special case when a Messenger is not a Nabi or vice versa.

The special cases of course occurs with the 12 Imams, they (with exception of the last one who is yet to deliver his message) were Messengers trying to revive the Sunnah of the Nabi, but didn't reveal a divine revelation to be held along with Quran of Mohammad as Quran.

There is wisdom in sealing Nubuwa so as to canonize it to be undisputed. Right now, we don't have different versions of Quran and don't bicker about which words are part of it or not, which makes the Quran intriguing to many and easier for humanity to study.

But the interpretation and Sunnah is disputed, and so this where Messengers continue to make sense, and the Mahdi is a Messenger but not a Nabi.

Mariam is neither a Rasool or Nabi, but she is as I said an sign of God and star of guidance and a leader who guides by God's command in the spiritual realm, but she is not a full leader as she won't lead society nor govern them, like Jesus would've if they obeyed him!

Mariam is also part of the course that is one course to God! But she is not a navigating Captain for children of Israel as in the sense she will govern and navigate and lead society in justice.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
This was not unique to Mariam (as), Sarah (as) was given offspring in old age through supernatural means (too old to have kids). Same with Zakariya's (as) wife, Elizabeth (as).

The truth is Mariam (as) was chosen to be a huge trial that put children of Israel in a spot where they either believe in the miracles of Jesus and don't accuse him of sorcery, or they would have to a long with that accuse the best woman on earth, Mariam (as).

Mariam (as) is an Ayah, and Imam only in the sense that she guides by Amrallah, but she is not a Nabi or Rasool because a Nabi is one who receives a revelation to be held on as a divine book from God by the people and a Rasool is who conveys the message of God on behalf of people.


I think Nubuwa and Resalah interrelate and almost all the time care ombined but are two different things.

A Rasool can be a Nabi.
A Nabi can be a Rasool.
A Nabi may not be Rasool.
A Rasool may not be a Nabi.,

All these are true. It's a false dichotomy, that one has to imply the other.

A Nabi that is not a Rasool is revealing a divine book but the divine book and his guidance, is not to revive the message to people nor to spread to people unaware of the message.
A Rasool that is not a Nabi is just conveying the message without a divine book, an easy example, would be the Mursaleen in Suratal Yaseen, only one believer, there may not be need of a divine book to be held on to by the people but just reveal words of God to him and not a book to safeguard which would be putting the man in a hard spot.

And when they are both, which is 99.999999999999999999% of the time, it's when they deliver the message a long with revealing a revelation from God that has the message which they explain and manifest as well. This is the case almost all the time.

It has to be a special case when a Messenger is not a Nabi or vice versa.

The special cases of course occurs with the 12 Imams, they (with exception of the last one who is yet to deliver his message) were Messengers trying to revive the Sunnah of the Nabi, but didn't reveal a divine revelation to be held along with Quran of Mohammad as Quran.

There is wisdom in sealing Nubuwa so as to canonize it to be undisputed. Right now, we don't have different versions of Quran and don't bicker about which words are part of it or not, which makes the Quran intriguing to many and easier for humanity to study.

But the interpretation and Sunnah is disputed, and so this where Messengers continue to make sense, and the Mahdi is a Messenger but not a Nabi.

Mariam is neither a Rasool or Nabi, but she is as I said an sign of God and star of guidance and a leader who guides by God's command in the spiritual realm, but she is not a full leader as she won't lead society nor govern them, like Jesus would've if they obeyed him!

Mariam is also part of the course that is one course to God! But she is not a navigating Captain for children of Israel as in the sense she will govern and navigate and lead society in justice.

interesting perspective
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
If I were you I'd put this in same faith debates and confine the argument to a specific group such as Christians, Jews and Muslims or just Muslims etc. Personally I've absolutely no idea how to make a contribution to a debate that would never occur in my circles.

I’m sorry I honestly never thought about that if a moderator can move it I’d appreciate that.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
@Link but didn’t Mary fulfill the criteria of being a prophet. She performed the miracle of birth and was visited by Gabriel. She was also upright and pure in her faith and selected among all the women in the world.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
@Link but didn’t Mary fulfill the criteria of being a prophet. She performed the miracle of birth and was visited by Gabriel. She was also upright and pure in her faith and selected among all the women in the world.

A Nabi is one who receives a divine instance of the book. The book of God though people don't understand how but witness it to, guides in mysterious ways, that human words cannot replicate. You have to have a definition that includes the idea of this divine books from God concept. I believe Nabi is that.

Rasool is one who conveys the message of God which means they prove things to people through miracles and reason, and guide them to the truth, but not necessarily, do they reveal a divine book.

Mariam was talked to God but so was the Pharaoh talked to by God..... Being talked to God in fact is something that occur to believers who are not even chosen like Mariam is.

A Nabi that is not a Rasool would be revealing a revelation and not conveying the message because there would be no need to or it's better not to and just reveal a revelation and teach additional knowledge and interpretation than to convey the basics and the message.
A Rasool that is not a Nabi, I gave the example of Suratal Yaseen, there is no need to make the believer therein hold on to a revelation from God and spread it to the people, that's putting too much on to him, so one would be a Messenger but not a Prophet in that case.

It's important to look at verses of Quran that contextualize these words.

According to Quran, the Mursaleen (sent ones) were only males who God revealed to. They were never women.

Mursaleen are Messengers and Prophets, both of them are sent with something. A Messenger with the divine message, and Prophets with divine book, and most of the time, they are sent with both and their Nubuwa contains the message and vice versa, their message explains the Nubuwa (the book).
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Mahdi is "arsal" by God according to many hadiths, this means he sent with something. We know Nubuwa is put at end, so what he will be coming with is only a Message. So he is a Messenger but not a Nabi.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Mursal doesn't mean (brought out for humans) which Mariam would be included, and so would Sarah. These two woman are chosen by God and are of equal status with the Prophets of their household, but they are not "sent" as Quran is clear, only ones ever sent were males. And if God were to make an Angel a Prophet or Messenger he would make it a male.

Sorry for sounding sexists. But I do believe Fatima is equal rank of Mohammad, but she is not one of the 12 Navigating Captains, but her husband and offspring the pure are.

I believe Mariam is equal rank of Moses and Aaron and Jesus and all the Messengers in between those, but she is not a Prophet or Messenger.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
To be precise.

Nubuwa of Mohammad = Quran.

Resalah of Mohammad = Some of bringing Quran to light through his message, some or most of Quran is Resalah (clear conveying of the message), and also some the Sunnah (the way of the Prophet and his teachings).

His role as Ummatan (course to God), includes Resalah but is more then that, he will guide to truth of Quran beyond the clear message and conveyance, the Sunnah thus is more comprehensive then just Resalah.

His role as Imam be Amrallah, is that he will spiritually guide you to the truth and assist you with his spirit as he is an instance of the holy spirit.

His role as the name of God, connect you to God.

His right as God's beloved and chosen, though, includes following him but more than that, includes preferring him over oneself, but more than that.

He is God's beloved and chosen because of his utmost sincerity and submission to God. Whether he was a Prophet or Messenger that helped us and guided us, we would have to revere his status and exalt him above others! And Fatima has this status!

May God bless Mohammad and his family, peace be upon the family of Yaseen.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He was also God's King which mean humans had to obey him and refer disputes back to him, and make him the one who governs them.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I don't know what you mean, you have to elaborate.

well according to the Qur’an Gabriel gave her the revelation of Jesus and I’m sure gave her his details of his future mission. Is that not fulfilling the criteria of prophethood?
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
well according to the Qur’an Gabriel gave her the revelation of Jesus and I’m sure gave her his details of his future mission. Is that not fulfilling the criteria of prophethood?

Define Nubuwa clearly. Depending on how you define it can be. But the way I defined it, it's not.
 
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