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Why did the world reject the Messiah when He Did come?

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
It was 1260 Years, fulfilling Prophecy. I do not need to calculate the days.

AD 622 was the start of the Islamic calendar, After the Hijra AH, AH1260 was the year 1260 on the Muslim Calendar, 1844 of the Gregorian Calendar.

The Bible foretold of this calendar in Prophecy. Again proving the Message of Islam is foretold in the Bible.

Regards Tony
You know the thing I'm stuck too is that 1260 years plus 622 equals 1882. So a conversion is needed to get to 1844. 622 to 1844 might be 1260 in a year that only lasts 354 days. But we've been calculating everything with 30 days months and 360 day years. Please don't blow off another important and knowledgeable poster. If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, it is people like him that must be convinced. But, if the Baha'i Faith isn't the truth, then it is people like him, with the questions he asks, that will make it evident.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Revelation 10:1 Then I saw another mighty angel coming down from heaven. He was robed in a cloud, with a rainbow above his head; his face was like the sun, and his legs were like fiery pillars.
And yet another angel. Who is this one? This is during The Bab's 2nd Woe. But other stuff happens during the 2nd Woe.

Chapter 11:1 ...“Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.
2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.
3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city...
9 For three and a half days...
11 But after the three and a half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe has passed; the third woe is coming soon.
So... the 2nd Woe is supposedly The Bab, but what are these 2 Witnesses doing here? Baha'is say that the 2 Witnesses are Muhammad and Ali. They've been and gone. Or, the is not about The Bab. Which is it? And then this mysterious earthquake. Baha'is say an earth happened right after The Bab was killed. Is there proof of it happening? And, did a tenth of the city collapse and did 7000 people die? And so ends the 2nd Woe. And now the 3rd Woe and the 7th Angel.

Rev 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.
2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads.
4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born.
5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.
6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.
What? This is Baha'u'llah's Woe. Why are we going back to some more references to 1260 days that get converted to years that get converted to lunar years that show that the time from the Hegira to the declaration of The Bab is year 1260 in the Islamic calendar? We are done with that. Now we need some indication that this 3nd Woe is Baha'u'llah. And that this Angel is him also. What do we have? We have beasts and dragons.

Rev 13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed...
5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months.
11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed...
The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.
And what does this have to do with Baha'u'llah? Baha'is have told me these beasts and dragons are the Umayyads and Abbasids. We are going back to the time of the 1st Woe? Anyway, next comes some interesting stuff.

Rev 14:1 Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
6 Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people.
7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
8 A second angel followed and said, “ ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great,’ which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand,
10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury..
The Lamb? Who's the Lamb? The 7th Angel/3rd Woe who Baha'is say is Baha'u'llah has already come. Now what? Are you going to say Baha'u'llah is the Lamb also? But who are these 144,000? They are the ones that sing the new song. But we've got more angels. Are they manifestations too? But the 3rd angel is still talking about the mark of the beast. But what about this mark or number of the beast... the 666? One Baha'i said that it is the year that the Umayyads took control of Islam. How again does that work? I mean in context. I know how he made it work. I believe 661 was the year he needed so he added 5 years to that to get to 666. He got the 5 years because Jesus was born approximately 5 years before year zero. But, whatever.

Rev 15:1 I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues—last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.
Now what? 7 more angels? But the 7th one out of the last group of angels was Baha'u'llah? And, it is with this one the wrath of God is completed? Hmmm? Plagues and disasters follow... ugly stuff then...

Rev 18:10 “ ‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, you mighty city of Babylon! In one hour your doom has come!’
16 ...“ ‘Woe! Woe to you, great city...
17 In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!’
More "Woes"? I thought Baha'is said "Woes" are manifestations? I guess not, huh?

Rev 19:7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.” (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”
10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers and sisters who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For it is the Spirit of prophecy who bears testimony to Jesus.”
11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war...
19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
We're not even at the end of Revelation yet. But here we've got this Lamb again. Jesus is mentioned by name. And the beast is finally captured and thrown into a fiery pit. This beast that the Baha'is say was either the Umayyads or Abbasids or both. If ever Revelation would be talking about Baha'u'llah, it would be now and to the end of Revelation. Are you sure you have all this interpreted correctly? Are you sure Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophesies? Of course you are. Let me end with the final words of Revelation again...

Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
Why does it say "I, Jesus"? Why does it say "Come, Lord Jesus"? I cannot blame Christians one bit for believing it is Jesus coming back. And, I cannot blame them for not believing that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ.
The beast from sea is the Roman empire. The 10 are Nero, Caligula, Claudius, Titus, vespasian etc . 7 are countries in the Roman empire.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
William Miller was the Daniel prophecy, not the 1260 from Revelation. Could you go over that one again. I have never seen a Christian refute it, yet.

The 1260 prophecy is most likely the clearest prophecy ever to unfold. In confirming the Message of the Bab, it proves the Message of Muhammad and ties the prophecy in Revelation with the Message given by Muhammad and the events that unfolded with the Islamic dispensation.

Far beyond a coincidence. It is very simple, not complicated and Islam will always be tied to the Holy Land

We can use what William Miller found about Biblical prophecy in determining 1844 from Daniel, using the 2300 day prophecy.

1) That a bible month is 30 days
2) That each day can be a year.

We then find prophecy that contain the time prophecies of;

Times, times and half a time,
3 1/2 years
42 months, and
1260 days.

It can now be seen that Times, times and half a time, is 3 1/2 years, which is
42 months, which are all the same way of saying 1260 days. 1260 days = 1260 years in Biblical prophecy.

All this Prophecy is end of age, end of era, end of world prophecy.

Then we find out that the year AD1844 predicted by William Miller for the return of Christ, is also the year AH1260.

That may be mere coincidence, except a Message was proclained in 1844, 1260 by the Bab who claimed on pilgrimage at the most holy place for Muslims, the Qibla at the black Stone that He was The 'Gate' to the Promised 'Day of God'. Later at a trial resulting from the turmoil this declaration created the Bab said;

"I am, I am, the promised One! I am the One whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at whose mention you have risen, whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten.” – the Bab

The significance of that is that the year 1260 is also a Quranic prophecy. The 12th Iman disappeared in AH260 and a Thousand years would have elapsed prior to him returning.

I would ask you CG, has any Faith got a stronger connection to prophecy than those mentioned above. Daniel ws the first to mention the 1260 prophecy, Revelation confirmed it and it unfolded in proven historical events.

If people can not accept this as valid fulfillment, then I see they will always wait for a Christ to come surfing in on a cloud to vindicate their belief in fairytails, or for stars to fall upon earth obliterating all life.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You know the thing I'm stuck too is that 1260 years plus 622 equals 1882. So a conversion is needed to get to 1844. 622 to 1844 might be 1260 in a year that only lasts 354 days. But we've been calculating everything with 30 days months and 360 day years. Please don't blow off another important and knowledgeable poster. If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, it is people like him that must be convinced. But, if the Baha'i Faith isn't the truth, then it is people like him, with the questions he asks, that will make it evident.

AD622 is the year AH1
AD1844 is the year AH1260

Solar and Luna calenders and prophecy uses one, or the other and sometimes both.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You know the thing I'm stuck too is that 1260 years plus 622 equals 1882. So a conversion is needed to get to 1844. 622 to 1844 might be 1260 in a year that only lasts 354 days. But we've been calculating everything with 30 days months and 360 day years. Please don't blow off another important and knowledgeable poster. If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, it is people like him that must be convinced. But, if the Baha'i Faith isn't the truth, then it is people like him, with the questions he asks, that will make it evident.

AD622 is the year AH1
AD1844 is the year AH1260

Solar and Luna calenders and prophecy uses one, or the other and sometimes both.

Regards Tony

This may now also assist in understanding the 666 beast Prophecy. That the year 666 is a Gregorian calendar date for an Islamic event where power was seized by men and the TRUE Spirit of the Message of Muhammad was lost.

Regards Tony
 

sooda

Veteran Member
This may now also assist in understanding the 666 beast Prophecy. That the year 666 is a Gregorian calendar date for an Islamic event where power was seized by men and the TRUE Spirit of the Message of Muhammad was lost.

Regards Tony
What happened with Islam in 666.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What happened with Islam in 666.

666 is the Mark of the Beast. It is the Umayyad Caliphate which came into power in AD661.

In the writings of the Bahá'í Faith, Abdu'l-Bahá states that the numerical value given to the beast referred to the year when the Umayyad ruler Muawiyah I who took office as Caliph in 661 AD. He opposed the Imamate, according to the beliefs of Shia Islam.

Regards Tony
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So Rev 11:15 is Baha'u'llah? Here's what Revelation says:

Chapter 8: 1 When he opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.
2 And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and seven trumpets were given to them.​

Who are the other 6 angels?

12
The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.
13 As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: “Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!”
So the 3 Woes are Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah and the 7th Angel is also Baha'u'llah?

Chapter 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.
2 When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss.
3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.
4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months.
This is part of the first Woe. And Baha'is believe this to be about Muhammad. What are the 5 months? Are you going to convert them to days then years then lunar years?

The first woe is past; two other woes are yet to come.
13 The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God.
14 It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, “Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.”
15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.
16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.
17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur.
18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths.
The 1st Woe is past, and now we get into the 2nd Woe, The Bab. 4 more angels are released. Who are they? Are all angels manifestations or only the 7th Angel? When did a third of mankind get killed during The Bab's time as being the 2nd Woe. Then, when did that massive army assemble and kill the people? I'll continue...
As I once told you, I do not even attempt to figure out what the Book of Revelation means. Since Abdu'l-Baha explained it I believe what he wrote, but I do not know about the rest and I do not think it really matters in the overall scheme of things.

But some Baha'is went to the trouble to parse it out and wrote this book:
Apocalypse Secrets: Baha'i Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Sorry, I thought you may have looked up the detail, you seem to keep saying you had read quite a few references I had previously given, thus my intent was not to burden you with those details. More than happy to go into the details.

In the Islamic calendar the year AD1844 is the year AH1260. This does not need interpretation, it is a fact.

All the 1260 years prophecy shown as either; times, time and half a time, or 3 1/2 Years, or 42 month or 1260 days is all a reference to the dispensation of the Islamic Faith which was brought to a close by the Bab in AH1260, Ad1844. These are shown to be the same by converting the years and the months to days, using the 30 day month calculation and each day for a year biblical passages.

Thus times, time and half a time = 3 1/2 Years = 42 month x 30 = 1260 days = 1260 Years.

1844 is arrived at by using other prophecy, which is the Biblical edict to rebuild the temple of 457 and the 2300 year prophecy for the rebuilding of the sanctuary. This is what William Miller used. William Miller was not aware of the Date AH1260, had he been I am sure much more excitement would have resulted. Great Disappointment - Wikipedia This link shows some graphs that are helpful to visually see the prophecy.

Thus the Two Witnesses of Revelation that would give Prophecy for 1260 years are Muhammad and Ali. There is no greater proofs in the Bible for Muhammad, but at the same time it proves the Message of the Bab.

Regards Tony
Except they didn't prophecy for 1260 solar years. So how many days in 3 1/2 lunar years? 1239. How many days in 42 lunar years? Hmmm? 1239? That can't be right? What happened to 1260? Besides, what we need is 1222 solar years to get to 1844 from 622. How do we do that? We claim the prophecy was all about 1260 lunar years. Then why are we using 30 days per month and 360 days in a year? If we do, why change it? So can you quote the Bible passage that justifies Baha'is to switch from solar to lunar years? That should clear things up.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Are you sure you have all this interpreted correctly? Are you sure Baha'u'llah has fulfilled all the prophesies? Of course you are. Let me end with the final words of Revelation again...

Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21 The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God’s people. Amen.
Why does it say "I, Jesus"? Why does it say "Come, Lord Jesus"? I cannot blame Christians one bit for believing it is Jesus coming back. And, I cannot blame them for not believing that Baha'u'llah is the return of Christ.
To me, it is completely illogical to assume it is going to be Jesus who returns simply because it says:
“Yes, I am coming soon. ”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

For one thing, it is NOT Jesus saying He is coming, it is someone hoping Jesus would come. Of course if people want to believe it they will use this verse to try to bolster their beliefs...

Secondly, Jesus clearly said His work was finished here and He was going to the Father and He was no more in this world. This is clear language, Revelations is anything but clear.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

*****************************************************************


John 16:28 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

That is exactly what Baha’u’llah did.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
666 is the Mark of the Beast. It is the Umayyad Caliphate which came into power in AD661.

In the writings of the Bahá'í Faith, Abdu'l-Bahá states that the numerical value given to the beast referred to the year when the Umayyad ruler Muawiyah I who took office as Caliph in 661 AD. He opposed the Imamate, according to the beliefs of Shia Islam.

Regards Tony
This is like playing nostradamous
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
666 is the Mark of the Beast. It is the Umayyad Caliphate which came into power in AD661.

In the writings of the Bahá'í Faith, Abdu'l-Bahá states that the numerical value given to the beast referred to the year when the Umayyad ruler Muawiyah I who took office as Caliph in 661 AD. He opposed the Imamate, according to the beliefs of Shia Islam.

Regards Tony
Wrong beast.
Rev13:1 The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.
3 One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.
4 People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast​

So we have a dragon and a beast. As I recall one of them the Baha'is say is the Umayyads and the other is the Abbasids. Which one is which, and did one give its power to the other?

5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months...
7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.
8 All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
The dragon has already had its time. This beast has authority for 42 months. Starting when and ending when? 622 to 1844? No. But Baha'is don't care. 42 months is 1260 lunar years and that's all the matters. But, who is this Lamb? One Baha'is says it is The Bab, but The Bab hasn't been born yet. But another problem, the 1st and 2nd Woes ended two chapters ago. This is in the time of the 3rd Woe. which is supposed to be about Baha'u'llah. But that's a minor problem. Now comes the good stuff.

11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon.
12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed.
13 And it performed great signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to the earth in full view of the people.
14 Because of the signs it was given power to perform on behalf of the first beast, it deceived the inhabitants of the earth. It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads,
17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man. That number is 666.
So that other beast already had power for 42 months. Now comes another beast. The other beast is the one that had a fatal wound. As I recall Baha'is say that is I believe an Umayyad leader who ruled from Andalucía. So which Islamic leader is this new one? That exercised authority on behalf of the other one? But anyway, this one sets up an image of the other beast and anyone that doesn't worship the image is to be killed. But then, this beast forces people to get a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads. They can't buy or sell without this mark. And what is this mark? It is 666. It has absolutely no relationship to the year 661AD when the first Umayyads leader took over. Unfortunately, it appears Abdul Baha is making things up. Which is fine... except Baha'is claim to have fulfilled all prophecies. Hopefully, you can show me how your interpretation of Revelation is indeed the true one.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
As I once told you, I do not even attempt to figure out what the Book of Revelation means. Since Abdu'l-Baha explained it I believe what he wrote, but I do not know about the rest and I do not think it really matters in the overall scheme of things.

But some Baha'is went to the trouble to parse it out and wrote this book:
Apocalypse Secrets: Baha'i Interpretation of the Book of Revelation
Just take a quick glance at all those verses from Revelation, and if you say that the Baha'i interpretation is dead on, then that's fine. I wouldn't you to dive to deeply into all this. I certainly don't. I'm just scratching the surface and finding all kinds of problems areas.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm just scratching the surface and finding all kinds of problems areas.
I guess that means you think you can disprove Baha'u'llah using your interpretation of the Book of Revelation...
Good luck and have fun with Tony, he knows a lot more than I know. :)
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
To me, it is completely illogical to assume it is going to be Jesus who returns simply because it says:
“Yes, I am coming soon. ”Amen. Come, Lord Jesus."

For one thing, it is NOT Jesus saying He is coming, it is someone hoping Jesus would come. Of course if people want to believe it they will use this verse to try to bolster their beliefs...
And the quote from Thessalonians and the one from Revelation?
1Thessalonians 4:14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the LORD's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the LORD himself will come down from heaven...

Rev 22:16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony..." 20 He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

So of course you and I don't believe this $%&^. But Christians do. The first quote is supposedly Paul. You and I don't trust nor do we believe anything he says. But Christians do. He says that God will bring with Jesus those that have "fallen" asleep. But who cares who he brings. I don't. But Paul makes it sound like it is Jesus coming back. But who is Paul talking about when he says "the coming of the LORD"? Who do you think he's speaking about? I think he's talking about Jesus. What do you think?

Next, in Revelation, it says "I, Jesus"? That is someone else or is that Jesus talking? Then later it says "I am coming soon" Who's coming soon? In context I think that is Jesus. What do you think? Then it is this person John that says "Come, Lord Jesus." Why trust him? And if we don't why believe any of his supposed revelation? Except, Baha'is do believe it and use it to prove their prophet. If you and I think it is the stupidest thing in the world, that's us. But Christians believe this stuff. They can't reason like you and me and see that when it says "Jesus" it doesn't mean "Jesus" it means the "Spirit" that was in Jesus. Those goofballs. They gotta take everything so dang literal.​
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I guess that means you think you can disprove Baha'u'llah using your interpretation of the Book of Revelation...
Good luck and have fun with Tony, he knows a lot more than I know. :)
You read it and then talk. But I know you won't. So much for investigating the truth for yourself.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The locusts of Revelation 9 are Roman soldiers and the General Titus is the human reflection of Apollyon.
Unfortunately, Baha'is don't care about that interpretation. Are you able to follow how they interpret Revelation? The biggy is that the 3 Woes about Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah. So chapter 9 is supposedly about Muhammad and Islam. And then the Two Witnesses are again about Muhammad along with Ali. Then the beasts and the dragons are the Umayyads and Abbasids leaders of Islam.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
And the quote from Thessalonians and the one from Revelation?
1Thessalonians 4:14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the LORD's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the LORD, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the LORD himself will come down from heaven...
Only, as I have already posted to you many times, Jesus says He is not coming back to the world...
Also, who is the LORD? Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah was the Lord of Hosts.
The Lord of Hosts did come down from heaven just as Jesus came down from heaven the first time.
Except, Baha'is do believe it and use it to prove their prophet.
Nope, Baha'is do not need the Bible as proof of who bahaullah was. Baha'u'llah clearly wrote what the proof is:

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

“Say: The verses We have revealed are as numerous as those which, in the preceding Revelation, were sent down upon the Báb. Let him that doubteth the words which the Spirit of God hath spoken seek the court of Our presence and hear Our divinely-revealed verses, and be an eye-witness of the clear proof of Our claim.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 258

If you and I think it is the stupidest thing in the world, that's us. But Christians believe this stuff. They can't reason like you and me and see that when it says "Jesus" it doesn't mean "Jesus" it means the "Spirit" that was in Jesus.
Christians cannot reason because emotions trump reason. They WANT Jesus so it has to be the same Jesus in the same body, regardless of how much sense it makes. Jesus said "it is done" when He died on the cross, but then the resurrection stories were written to bring Jesus back to life so they could keep Jesus alive and more stories were added to that story, so now we have Jesus going up into the clouds and 2000 years later descending from the clouds, only there is no Jesus anywhere and there never will be because Baha'u'llah was the return of the Christ Spirit, the return of the Son of man. If you do not know this by now you never will.
 
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