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Are we ready to find life on Mars in 2 years?

ecco

Veteran Member
I don't know how the universe is, and my claim is that science doesn't know whether time as we know it exists uniformly. Not sure it was created any different than it is now.

Nonsense. You have stated that the universe has changed. Haven't you claimed that the speed of light is different now than in earlier times?

The earth, on the other hand, judging from historical records seems to heave been quite different.

What are you trying to say? If you are saying that the earth went from a hot fireball 4.5 billion years ago to what we see now, I won't disagree. But I don't think that is what you are saying, is it?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I think I can one up that. BTW anyone who claims to believe in "God" or not, yet believes in the fables put out by origin 'sciences' are delusional within and without themselves.
The argument has been from science that they actually know better.
"from science that they actually know better"

This must be out of their trust/faith/belief in Science . How could Science claim that?

Regards
 

dad

Undefeated
What is it about "one clear, concise, specific prophesy that has actually come true" that you do not understand?

Is that supposed to be a prediction of Jesus? Did Jesus rule Israel?

It's far too vague to have any meaning.

So, I'll ask again. Present one clear, concise, specific prophesy that has actually come true.
Very precise He is to be the ruler. The part that you can deal with is how that this messiah was born in a specific little town, in a little country (and add detailed from other prophesies) at a certain time, to a virgin, who was rejected by His people, killed, rose on the third day, was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, had His feet and hands pierced, was the fulfillment of the sacrificial lamb sacrifices, was brought up both in Egypt and Nazareth, was born at a time when there was a great howling in Ramah, (Herod killed male babies) had his clothes divided based on casting of lots, rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, healed the lame and deaf and blind, and rose the dead, etc etc.
 

dad

Undefeated
Nonsense. You have stated that the universe has changed. Haven't you claimed that the speed of light is different now than in earlier times?
No. You kidding? It is not that a speed would 'change' in deep space if time did not exist there as we know it. However, there may not be the same (amount of) time involved in things such as movement of light.


What are you trying to say? If you are saying that the earth went from a hot fireball 4.5 billion years ago to what we see now, I won't disagree. But I don't think that is what you are saying, is it?
I am saying science doesn't know what forces existed in Noah's day, what 'nature'. Laws. They use today's nature and how laws work now to try and model the past.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
No. You kidding?


I am saying science doesn't know what forces existed in Noah's day, what 'nature'. Laws. They use today's nature and how laws work now to try and model the past.
"nature"

What is nature and how did it happen to exist?
Anybody, please

Regards
 

dad

Undefeated
"from science that they actually know better"

This must be out of their trust/faith/belief in Science . How could Science claim that?

Regards
Easy. Rather than agree with Scripture on Adam and Eve and creation, they conjured up other stories.
 

dad

Undefeated
"nature"

What is nature and how did it happen to exist?
Anybody, please

Regards
God created the world with certain rules in place to work. Rules like the forces that govern how atoms function, such as the strong nuclear force and etc that we know about in today's world. Those laws and forces or nature determine how things work. Things like genetics. Things like radioactive decay.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Easy. Rather than agree with Scripture on Adam and Eve and creation, they conjured up other stories.
I don't visualize that Science could have ever denied the existence of Adam and Eve. Do they have a list of all the humans beings from the inception to date to deny that?

Regards
____________
[2:31]وَ اِذۡ قَالَ رَبُّکَ لِلۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃِ اِنِّیۡ جَاعِلٌ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ خَلِیۡفَۃً ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اَتَجۡعَلُ فِیۡہَا مَنۡ یُّفۡسِدُ فِیۡہَا وَ یَسۡفِکُ الدِّمَآءَ ۚ وَ نَحۡنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمۡدِکَ وَ نُقَدِّسُ لَکَ ؕ قَالَ اِنِّیۡۤ اَعۡلَمُ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’ they said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? — and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness.’ He answered: ‘I know what you know not.’

https://www.alislam.org/quran/2:31
 

dad

Undefeated
I don't visualize that Science could have ever denied the existence of Adam and Eve. Do they have a list of all the humans beings from the inception to date to deny that?

Regards
____________
[2:31]وَ اِذۡ قَالَ رَبُّکَ لِلۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃِ اِنِّیۡ جَاعِلٌ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ خَلِیۡفَۃً ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اَتَجۡعَلُ فِیۡہَا مَنۡ یُّفۡسِدُ فِیۡہَا وَ یَسۡفِکُ الدِّمَآءَ ۚ وَ نَحۡنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمۡدِکَ وَ نُقَدِّسُ لَکَ ؕ قَالَ اِنِّیۡۤ اَعۡلَمُ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’ they said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? — and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness.’ He answered: ‘I know what you know not.’

https://www.alislam.org/quran/2:31
Their list includes animals and worms as ancestors. That denies Adam being created...then there are the imaginary times they claim, that's another story.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Their list includes animals and worms as ancestors. That denies Adam being created...then there are the imaginary times they claim, that's another story.
Too bad that fear keeps you from learning. We know that there never was just one man, or just two people. And you are the one with imaginary tales.

Here is how you tell the difference. There tends to be no reliable evidence for imaginary tales. There does tend to be reliable evidence for events that actually happened. Like it or not you are a son of a worm.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Too bad that fear keeps you from learning. We know that there never was just one man, or just two people. And you are the one with imaginary tales.

Here is how you tell the difference. There tends to be no reliable evidence for imaginary tales. There does tend to be reliable evidence for events that actually happened. Like it or not you are a son of a worm.
But how does one know that Adam and Eve never existed. The truthful religion tells us that humans evolved (in millions of years), two of them had names Adam and Eve. Why deny it, please?

Regards
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
But how does one know that Adam and Eve never existed. The truthful religion tells us that humans evolved (in millions of years), two of them had names Adam and Eve. Why deny it, please?

Regards
Genetics tells us that there never were only two people. Now you are changing the myth.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Genetics tells us that there never were only two people. Now you are changing the myth.
I didn't say there were only two people. There were many people but one of them was named Adam and his wife was named Eve. G-d selected Adam out of them. Science cannot deny it. Right, please?

Regards
______________
[2:31]وَ اِذۡ قَالَ رَبُّکَ لِلۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃِ اِنِّیۡ جَاعِلٌ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ خَلِیۡفَۃً ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اَتَجۡعَلُ فِیۡہَا مَنۡ یُّفۡسِدُ فِیۡہَا وَ یَسۡفِکُ الدِّمَآءَ ۚ وَ نَحۡنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمۡدِکَ وَ نُقَدِّسُ لَکَ ؕ قَالَ اِنِّیۡۤ اَعۡلَمُ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’ they said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? — and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness.’ He answered: ‘I know what you know not.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 2: Al-Baqarah
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I didn't say there were only two people. There were many people but one of them was named Adam and his wife was named Eve. G-d selected Adam out of them. Science cannot deny it. Right, please?

Regards
______________
[2:31]وَ اِذۡ قَالَ رَبُّکَ لِلۡمَلٰٓئِکَۃِ اِنِّیۡ جَاعِلٌ فِی الۡاَرۡضِ خَلِیۡفَۃً ؕ قَالُوۡۤا اَتَجۡعَلُ فِیۡہَا مَنۡ یُّفۡسِدُ فِیۡہَا وَ یَسۡفِکُ الدِّمَآءَ ۚ وَ نَحۡنُ نُسَبِّحُ بِحَمۡدِکَ وَ نُقَدِّسُ لَکَ ؕ قَالَ اِنِّیۡۤ اَعۡلَمُ مَا لَا تَعۡلَمُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
And when thy Lord said to the angels: ‘I am about to place a vicegerent in the earth,’ they said: ‘Wilt Thou place therein such as will cause disorder in it, and shed blood? — and we glorify Thee with Thy praise and extol Thy holiness.’ He answered: ‘I know what you know not.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 2: Al-Baqarah
It pretty much does. It also says that man was created. You are making your own interpretation that does not match the Bible. Don't worry, all theists tend to do this when reality shows their holy books to be wrong.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
It pretty much does. It also says that man was created. You are making your own interpretation that does not match the Bible. Don't worry, all theists tend to do this when reality shows their holy books to be wrong.
"man was created"

I said man was evolved (in millions of years). Didn't I, please? If from that one means that man was "created" then it is one's problem and is only semantics, it is not against Science. If, yes, then please quote from Science in this connection. Right, please?

Right, please?
______________
[7:20]وَ یٰۤاٰدَمُ اسۡکُنۡ اَنۡتَ وَ زَوۡجُکَ الۡجَنَّۃَ فَکُلَا مِنۡ حَیۡثُ شِئۡتُمَا وَ لَا تَقۡرَبَا ہٰذِہِ الشَّجَرَۃَ فَتَکُوۡنَا مِنَ الظّٰلِمِیۡنَ ﴿۲۰﴾
‘And O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in the garden and eat therefrom wherever you will, but approach not this tree lest you be among the wrongdoers.’

https://www.alislam.org/quran/7:20
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
"man was created"

I said man was evolved (in millions of years). Didn't I, please? If from that one means that man was "created" then it is one's problem and is only semantics, it is not against Science. If, yes, then please quote from Science in this connection. Right, please?

Right, please?
______________
[7:20]وَ یٰۤاٰدَمُ اسۡکُنۡ اَنۡتَ وَ زَوۡجُکَ الۡجَنَّۃَ فَکُلَا مِنۡ حَیۡثُ شِئۡتُمَا وَ لَا تَقۡرَبَا ہٰذِہِ الشَّجَرَۃَ فَتَکُوۡنَا مِنَ الظّٰلِمِیۡنَ ﴿۲۰﴾
‘And O Adam, dwell thou and thy wife in the garden and eat therefrom wherever you will, but approach not this tree lest you be among the wrongdoers.’

https://www.alislam.org/quran/7:20
Yes but that is not what the Bible says. You are reinterpreting the Bible after the fact since it is clearly wrong as written. It is wiser to simply treat it as a morality tale. The story itself is bad theology as written. It makes God look incompetent and evil.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Mic 5:2 “But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me The One to be Ruler in Israel, Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting.”

Very precise He is to be the ruler.
More specifically: "to be Ruler in Israel".

For that part of your prophecy to be true, Jesus would have had to have ruled Israel for a period of time. Jesus did not rule Israel - ever! So, this part of your prophecy is a failure. Therefore, the entire prophecy is a failure. That's not even a nice try. Perhaps you were going for a participation trophy.



The part that you can deal with is how that this messiah was born in a specific little town, in a little country (and add detailed from other prophesies) at a certain time, to a virgin,

The Mic 5:2 verse does indeed mention Bethlehem. It does not mention a time, nor does it mention a virgin. So, two of the three things you assert are part of a prophecy are not even in the prophecy. There are just things you made up.

That leaves you with Bethlehem.

However, Biblical scholarship has recently called the identification of Bethlehem as Jesus’ birthplace into question: If Jesus was indeed born in Bethlehem, why is he called a Nazorean and a Galilean throughout the New Testament, and why is Bethlehem not mentioned as Jesus’ birthplace outside of the infancy narratives in the Gospels? This has caused some to wonder if Jesus was actually born in Nazareth.
The question is:
Was Jesus born in Bethlehem as prophecised in Micah or did the gospel writers assign Bethlehem as the birthplace to be in accord with what Micah had written. Remember, there were no witnesses.



... who was rejected by His people, killed, rose on the third day, was betrayed for 30 pieces of silver, had His feet and hands pierced, was the fulfillment of the sacrificial lamb sacrifices, was brought up both in Egypt and Nazareth, was born at a time when there was a great howling in Ramah, (Herod killed male babies) had his clothes divided based on casting of lots, rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, healed the lame and deaf and blind, and rose the dead, etc etc.

There is nothing in the Micah verse that you posted as a prophecy that mentions rejection killing, rising or anything else you posted above.

Your posting of Mic 5:2 as a prophecy is a complete failure.

You did not comment on:
Whose goings forth are from of old, From everlasting
  • You skipped parts of the passage that didn't fit your narrative.
  • You made up stuff that is not in the passage.
It's no wonder you are a believer. You let your imagination and apologetics create your prophecies.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
No. You kidding? It is not that a speed would 'change' in deep space if time did not exist there as we know it. However, there may not be the same (amount of) time involved in things such as movement of light.
Duh! You don't want it to be the same so you make up stories. You make up a lot of stories. Instead of making up stories, --- NAH! That's your thing. That's what allows you to continue to have your literalist beliefs.

I am saying science doesn't know what forces existed in Noah's day, what 'nature'. Laws. They use today's nature and how laws work now to try and model the past.

Science doesn't know what forces existed in Noah's day any more than science knows what forces exist in and around Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.

Just because you need things to have been different, you must pretend that things were different "back then". Of course, you have no explanation for why that would be the case. Of course, you don't care that you have no explanation for why that would be the case. You have your little theories based on your literal reading of Genesis and you need to twist the laws of physics to support your make-believe. It's called pretending. It's called make-believe.
 
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