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Evidence That Jesus Is God

Skwim

Veteran Member
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Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god. In fact, several times Jesus made a distinction between god and himself. (The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't finally formulated until 381AD.)
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JJ50

Well-Known Member
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Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god. In fact, several times Jesus made a distinction between god and himself. (The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't proposed until the second century.)

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He was no sort of god, just a human with faults like the rest of us.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
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Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god. In fact, several times Jesus made a distinction between god and himself. (The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't finally formulated until 381AD.)
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The Bible does not say that Jesus was God.
Jesus never claimed to be God.
It was Christians who formulated the doctrine that Jesus was God.

Did the Jews Accuse Jesus of Claiming to Be “God” or “a God”?

May 28, 2014 by Kermit Zarley2 Comments

The Gospel of John relates one incident in which the Jews accused Jesus of “making himself equal to God” and another incident in which they said to him, “you, though only a human being, are making yourself God” (Jn 5.18; 10.33). (All scripture quotations are from the NRSV.) Since Christians have been taught that Jesus is God, they have been taught that these Jews were correct in making these accusations. But in each instance, Jesus’ immediate response represents a denial of those allegations (Jn 5.19-46; 10.34-38). In the second incident, did they charge Jesus with making himself “God,” as has been traditionally translated, or “a god”? In the Greek text of Jn 10.33, the word for “God,” theos, does not have the article, thus making it “a god.” But English Bibles don’t translate it that way. Versions with “God’s Son” include the NIV, NRSV, NEB, and versions with “the Son of God” include KJV, NASB, ESV.

The first incident, in Jn 5.1-9, was precipitated by Jesus healing a man on the Sabbath. Then we read, “the Jews started persecuting Jesus because he was doing such things on the sabbath. But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father is still working, and I also am working’” (vv. 16-17). Thus, Jesus here calls God his Father, as he so often did, and he implicitly identifies his work as the Father’s work. Then we read, “For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God” (v. 18)……

In the second incident, in which the Jews accused Jesus of “making yourself God” (Jn 10.33), the Greek text has theos without the article. Ordinarily, this would be translated “a god” rather than “God.” But because most translators believe Jesus is God, they have translated it “God” rather than “a god.”

What precipitated this accusation by the Jews, in Jn 10.33? They asked Jesus to tell them plainly if he was the Messiah (Jn 10.24). He replied that he had already done so. He added that his miracles, which he had done in his Father’s name, testify to who he is (v. 25). He further added that his Father had given him his disciples, to whom he gives eternal life, and no one can snatch them out of both his hand and the Father’s hand (vv. 28-29). He concluded, “The Father and I are one” (v. 30). Some church fathers asserted that Jesus’ word “one” (Greek hen) was a claim to be of the same essence as that of the Father. On the contrary, Jesus meant he and the Father were unified in their relationship and work………

To sum, Jesus’ interlocutors in Jn 10.33 more likely accused him of making himself out to be a god rather than the God of Israel. And Jesus likely responded by calling himself “a son of God” in parallel to Ps 82 from which he quoted. Nevertheless, Jesus is “the Son of God” par excellence, and a huge majority of the huios texts applied to Jesus in the Greek New Testament so identify him.

Did the Jews Accuse Jesus of Claiming to Be “God” or “a God”?

(To see a titled list of over fifty, two-three page posts (easily accessible) about the Bible not saying Jesus is God, click here.)
 
(The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't finally formulated until 381AD.)

That is actually a completely different point and relates to the formalisation of belief regarding the Holy Spirit (although it was not a new belief).

Jesus as God (binity) and Holy Spirit as God (Trinity) have differing histories, and the former was more widely established much earlier (1st C).
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god.
Your method of looking therefore sucks, and it is about time we solved this repeated question:

We need Esword Bible software to even remotely understand some of the intricacy in the Bible, as we need to see all the cross-referencing in Hebrew to see the parable metaphors across the Tanakh.

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Yeshua means the Salvation of God, and we see this separate the Red Sea (Exodus 14:13), fight the children of Ammon (2 Chronicles 20:17); it was something real, that has been seen by thousands of people in the past... Before it turned its face away from us, for us murdering its representatives.

Then it says it will come as David being a reincarnated version as Yehoshua/Yeshua (Psalms 89:19-21, Isaiah 52:10-14, where they will pay 30 pieces of silver for him (Zechariah 11), and then after God will cut them off, persecuting the Jews from nation to nation (Deuteronomy 28)...

The idea all that happened as recorded historically, and thus the Source of reality has to have created it all, for it all to exist - thus proves it is real.

The other problem is many people's concept of what a God is, it isn't a human being; it is ultimately the Source of all reality to be maximumly great, and something we all can call God.

For Yeshua to exist God created it, for you to exist God created it, so all of us have aspects of the Divine within, it is just recognizing it.

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 
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Skwim

Veteran Member
Yeshua means the Salvation of God,
It also means help, deliverance, health, save, saving, and welfare.


and we see this separate the Red Sea (Exodus 14:13), fight the children of Ammon (2 Chronicles 20:17), it was something real, that has been seen by thousands of people in the past... Before it turned its face away from us, for us murdering its representatives.

Then it says it will come as David being a reincarnated version as Yehoshua/Yeshua (Psalms 89:19-21, Isaiah 52:10-14, where they will pay 30 pieces of silver for him (Zechariah 11), and then after God will cut them off, persecuting the Jews from nation to nation (Deuteronomy 28)...

The idea all that happened as recorded historically, and thus the Source of reality has to have created it all, for it all to exist - thus proves it is real.

The other problem is many people's concept of what a God is, it isn't a human being; it is ultimately the Source of all reality to be maximumly great, and something we all can call God.

For Yeshua to exist God created it, for you to exist God created it, so all of us have aspects of the Divine within, it is just recognizing it.

In my opinion.
:innocent:

Your opinion sucks. I waded through all your prose expecting evidence that Jesus was god, and all I got was zip. So be it.

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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Your opinion sucks.
Saying your method sucks, is nothing to do with you, it is the way your looking at it that is confusing you; the idea you then need to be personal for offering complex advice, says why you'll never understand the topic.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
There are a few different ways one infers thst Jesus is God. One, is that Jesus is pre'existant form of the Lord, manifested, and the Lord is called God. The other is that Jesus is higher than the angels, therefore [God, because above the angels, is God. The other way is that as a representative with knowing, thusly spirit of the Lord, is the persona, and therefore Jesus just resumes Lordship.

Biblically, one can have no other God, besides Jesus, [being the Lord.


So, verses verses verses. Yeah. Yohanan goes from jewish methodology to non'jewish methodology describing deity, mid book. Hmmm weird.
Wanna get wild?
1 Corinthians 8:6
[One Lord, Jesus Christ
2 Corinthians 6:18
[Lord Almighty
Matthew 22:37
[Lord our God.

I guess Jesus is our God, regardless of how many yeshuahs there are scripture, or added verses. Pretty much doesn't matter.
 
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Trailblazer

Veteran Member
expecting evidence that Jesus was god..
You won't ever find any evidence that Jesus was God, because the Unseen God cannot ever become a man.

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What you're not understanding, is that the Lord, is our God, even before the new testament. As soon as 'Jesus' is the Lord, He's our God.

Even if there is another g-d.

So, mazel tov, and start praying.
 
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Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
From John 10, a certain often quoted statement ("I and my father are one") but it just so happens that the text itself clearly hints that he speaks symbolically here, the truth being that Jesus was a monotheist (and Prophet) who expressed the truth esoterically, not exoterically - as also evident by the many noncanonical and gnostic texts there are of him, which are clearly not literalist:

Then came the Festival of Dedication at Jerusalem. It was winter, and Jesus was in the temple courts walking in Solomon’s Colonnade. The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”
Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods” ’? If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside—what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
Then Jesus went back across the Jordan to the place where John had been baptizing in the early days. There he stayed, and many people came to him. They said, “Though John never performed a sign, all that John said about this man was true.” And in that place many believed in Jesus.

Aside from that, you gotta remember what Exodus 4:22 says.....
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You won't ever find any evidence that Jesus was God, because the Unseen God cannot ever become a man.

“Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming: “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 49
Thats a different entity. Your deity is different. Has nothing to do with biblical deity, and some other deity ideas.

Its a different entity.

We have a personal god, with form, even, who does make Himself known.


Different religion, and different entity.

Your deity might be referenced in the bible, though, as a different entity. So thats pretty cool.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
What you're not understanding, is that the Lord, is our God, even before the new testament. As soon as 'Jesus' is the Lord, He's our God.

Even if there is another g-d.

So, mazel tov, and start praying.
A statement with no evidence to support it.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
There are a few different ways one infers thst Jesus is God. One, is that Jesus is pre'existant form of the Lord, manifested,
Besides yourself, who says so?

The other is that Jesus is higher than the angels,
Besides yourself, who says so?

So, verses verses verses. Yeah. Yohanan goes from jewish methodology to non'jewish methodology describing deity, mid book. Hmmm weird.
Wanna get wild?
1 Corinthians 8:6
[One Lord, Jesus Christ
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 For us there is only one God, and he is our Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things were made through him, and we also have life through him.
"There is only one God, and he is our Father"
And
"There is only one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Paul here makes a clear distinction between the "one God" and the "one Lord," They're not the same entity.

.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Besides yourself, who says so?


Besides yourself, who says so?


1 Corinthians 8:6
6 For us there is only one God, and he is our Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things were made through him, and we also have life through him.
"There is only one God, and he is our Father"
"There is only one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Paul here makes a clear distinction between the "one God" and the "one Lord," They're not the same entity.

.
Matthew 22:37
[Lord our God
2 Corinthians 6:18
[Lord Almighty

• that's what Im getting at. Even if there is another deity, Jesus as the Lord, is our God.

So, Jesus is Adon'ai, and that is the same name used for the incarnation, by the way, regardless, the Lord is our God, otherwise there is 'some other deity', ie not the pre'existant Lord, who would be the deity.

In other words, no matter how many deity references, or obfuscation, the Lord, Adon'ai, is our God. It's just that basic.



By the way, Ive brought this up, like how can jeshua have a g-d, it makes no sense, so im familiar with this subject.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
The other is that Jesus is higher than the angels, therefore [God, because above the angels, is God.
Jesus is God because he is higher than the angels?

How did he get to be higher than the angels?

What does the Scripture say about it?

Isn't it God who has highly exalted His son above all things in both heaven (angels) and earth( humans)?

Isn't it God who crowned His son with honor a glory?
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
One could 'explain' how jeshua could have a g-d, however im not buying it, because it supposes that jesus isn't already identified with, as the Lord, which He clearly is, in Scripture.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Thats a different entity. Your deity is different. Has nothing to do with biblical deity, and some other deity ideas.

Its a different entity.

We have a personal god, with form, even, who does make Himself known.


Different religion, and different entity.

Your deity might be referenced in the bible, though, as a different entity. So thats pretty cool.
Different religions do not have different Gods, even though they have different conceptions of God...
There is only One God, the God who revealed all the true religions.

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Besides yourself, who says so?


Besides yourself, who says so?


1 Corinthians 8:6
6 For us there is only one God, and he is our Father. All things came from him, and we live for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ. All things were made through him, and we also have life through him.
"There is only one God, and he is our Father"
"There is only one Lord, Jesus Christ.

Paul here makes a clear distinction between the "one God" and the "one Lord," They're not the same entity.

.
The Scripture also tells us that God has made Jesus to be both Lord and Christ. Jesus is therefore made Lord by his God and is set in position above all, to be Lord f all. But there is only one true God, the Father.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Jesus is God because he is higher than the angels?

How did he get to be higher than the angels?

What does the Scripture say about it?

Isn't it God who has highly exalted His son above all things in both heaven (angels) and earth( humans)?

Isn't it God who crowned His son with honor a glory?
You need to work that out with scripture. I didn't canonize the bible. There is however no way around that the 'Lord', is our God.
Matthew 22:37
2 Corinthians 6:18
1 Corinthians 8:6
 
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