Who is the Mahdi in Islam?

wizanda said:

That wasn't vague, I offered mathematical understanding to how I'd rate texts; therefore it is below 25%, which means no I don't believe things unless they have over 82%...

Tho I will accept that is where ideas might come from, it doesn't mean I believe any of it, unless shown it adds up.

In my opinion.

Click to expand...

Do you believe Mathrook hadith?

paarsurrey said:

There is no doubt, as I understand, that Muhammad was a guide (Al-Hadi) for the humanity being "rightly guided one" by G-d, rather the Head/Chief of all the "rightly guided ones" and this is one aspect of the title "Khaatam-un-Nabiyyeen" bestowed on him by G-d.
Actually, I understand from Quran, that every prophet/messenger is and has to be an Imam Mahdi and it is another title name of every one of them. Quran describes it thus:

[21:74]وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُمۡ اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا وَ اَوۡحَیۡنَاۤ اِلَیۡہِمۡ فِعۡلَ الۡخَیۡرٰتِ وَ اِقَامَ الصَّلٰوۃِ وَ اِیۡتَآءَ الزَّکٰوۃِ ۚ وَ کَانُوۡا لَنَا عٰبِدِیۡنَ ﴿ۚۙ۷۴﴾
And We made them leaders who guided people by Our command, and We sent revelation to them enjoining the doing of good works, and the observing of Prayer, and the giving of alms. And they were worshippers of Us alone.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 21: Al-Anbiya'
[32:24]وَ لَقَدۡ اٰتَیۡنَا مُوۡسَی الۡکِتٰبَ فَلَا تَکُنۡ فِیۡ مِرۡیَۃٍ مِّنۡ لِّقَآئِہٖ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُ ہُدًی لِّبَنِیۡۤ اِسۡرَآءِیۡلَ ﴿ۚ۲۴﴾
And We did give Moses the Book — be not therefore in doubt as to the meeting with Him — and We made it a guidance for the children of Israel.
[32:25]وَ جَعَلۡنَا مِنۡہُمۡ اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوۡا ۟ؕ وَ کَانُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِنَا یُوۡقِنُوۡنَ ﴿۲۵﴾
And We made from among them leaders, who guided the people by Our command, whilst they themselves were steadfast and had firm faith in Our Signs.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 32: As-Sajdah
[6:90]اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰتَیۡنٰہُمُ الۡکِتٰبَ وَ الۡحُکۡمَ وَ النُّبُوَّۃَ ۚ فَاِنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِہَا ہٰۤؤُلَآءِ فَقَدۡ وَکَّلۡنَا بِہَا قَوۡمًا لَّیۡسُوۡا بِہَا بِکٰفِرِیۡنَ ﴿۹۰﴾
It is these to whom We gave the Book and dominion and prophethood. But if these people are ungrateful for them, it matters not, for We have now entrusted them to a people who are not ungrateful for them.
[6:91]اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ ہَدَی اللّٰہُ فَبِہُدٰٮہُمُ اقۡتَدِہۡ ؕ قُلۡ لَّاۤ اَسۡـَٔلُکُمۡ عَلَیۡہِ اَجۡرًا ؕ اِنۡ ہُوَ اِلَّا ذِکۡرٰی لِلۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ﴿٪۹۱﴾
These it is whom Allah guided aright, so follow thou their guidance. Say: ‘I ask not of you any reward for it. This is naught but an admonition for all mankind.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 6: Al-An`am
[32:25]اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا
"who guided the people by Our command".
The above is plural and it is not difficult to understand that its singular will be Imam Mahdi.
So, in this sense Imam Mahdi is described in Quran, at several places.
Right, please?

Regards

Click to expand...

You came late my friend. Looks like you didn't read my previous posts.
Ok nope.
Bahaa,. Bab, Ahmady, Shiia, and so forth are misguided by wrong translation.
You're an obvious live example.
All above verses are describing "Alhady" man who guide people Prophets، Messangers, and good people.


This is totally different from "Almahdy" whom is guided.
Almahdy is a normal Moslem like me or any other Moslem whom Allah will "guide" him in one night to be better practicing moslem.

So, Almahdy is neither prophet nor Messanger but excellent leader like Omar, Abobakr, Salah Eldeen,,,,

That's it no more no less

Arsal in Quran means God either sent with a divine book or Message of God or both. We know there is no more Nubuwa, so this means with "a message", and so the Mahdi is a Messenger of God but not a Nabi.

AlMahdi I already explain doesn't mean Al-Muhtadi. But whatever... Arabs I witness and I speak Arabic are the most people we should distrust with respect to Arabic. They don't care about truth just what suits their purpose.

Link said:

Arsal in Quran means God either sent with a divine book or Message of God or both. We know there is no more Nubuwa, so this means with "a message", and so the Mahdi is a Messenger of God but not a Nabi.

Click to expand...

Noway my friend.
Totally wrong from Arabic perspective and Quran study perspective.
Here is an example
Alrahman:55 "
There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves."

The word يرسل send means to send something, sometimes its connected to messangers.

I hope you take my comments with neutral open minded, think about, and study it.

Limo said:

For us sunni's Mahdi is a normal Moslem but leads Moslems in end of time wars ( what Jews and Christians call Armageddon) he'll be a fair and straight leader for Moslems.
By the way, Almasseh will be in Moslems Side.
That's all.
Regards

Click to expand...

"Mahdi is a normal Moslem"

Please elaborate one's understanding from Quran. Right, please?

Regards
____________
Principles of interpretation of Hadith
After investigating the chain of narration of a Hadith, the second thing which requires investigation is the text of a Hadith. Although scholars of Hadith have left no stone unturned in investigating the characters and biographies of the narrators and have spent a greater part of their lives in this research, yet like every human endeavour, the natural flaws which still exist in the narration of a Hadith requires that the following two things must always remain in consideration while investigating the text of a Hadith:
1. Nothing in it should be against the Qur’an and Sunnah
2. Nothing in it should be against established facts derived from knowledge and reason
http://www.renaissance.com.pk/JulHadi2y6.htm
Of course one should believe these principle after due pondering under the guidance of Quran and Sunnah and every effort should be made to harmonize one’s interpretation with Quran.

Limo said:

Elmahdi is not a prophet to accept or reject.
He's a very normal Moslem like anybody.
He's just a good leader at a specific time..

Click to expand...

"Elmahdi is not a prophet to accept or reject."

Please elaborate one's understanding from Quran. Right, please?

Regards
____________
#126

Limo said:

Noway my friend.
Totally wrong from Arabic perspective and Quran study perspective.
Here is an example
Alrahman:55 "
There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves."

The word يرسل send means to send something, sometimes its connected to messangers.

I hope you take my comments with neutral open minded, think about, and study it.

Click to expand...

Sometimes it can mean a character. A personality of taking it slow and steady. Depends on the context. Tharassala Kiraathihi would be the Kiraath done in a slow and steady manner. But yes, baseline if I say muraasalah it means he sent a message. By meaning of the word itself it does not have any meaning that contains any thing else like a scripture or law or anything of the sort. You are right. That would depend on perspective. Debatable.

Limo said:

Noway my friend.
Totally wrong from Arabic perspective and Quran study perspective.
Here is an example
Alrahman:55 "
There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves."

The word يرسل send means to send something, sometimes its connected to messangers.

I hope you take my comments with neutral open minded, think about, and study it.

Click to expand...

The point I'm making and I will make it clear, is that the term in Quran has that context with respect to humans. So God he sent me to this world, he brought me into it, but this is not what "sent" means with a human. If it was the case, then the following verse would not make sense:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلَّا رِجَالًا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ ۖ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

"We did not send before you except males who we revealed to therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know"

The point is "send" here means with a message or revelation in form of divine book from God to people.

It doesn't have with respect to humans any other meaning in Quran or else if it means the same thing as Ar-Rahman 55, we all are Mursaleen (Sent by God) to this world....

This is not what it means.

paarsurrey said:

"Elmahdi is not a prophet to accept or reject."

Click to expand...

Please elaborate one's understanding from Quran. Right, please?

Regards
____________
#126
#58
#21

paarsurrey said:

"Mahdi is a normal Moslem"

Please elaborate one's understanding from Quran. Right, please?

Regards
____________
Principles of interpretation of Hadith
After investigating the chain of narration of a Hadith, the second thing which requires investigation is the text of a Hadith. Although scholars of Hadith have left no stone unturned in investigating the characters and biographies of the narrators and have spent a greater part of their lives in this research, yet like every human endeavour, the natural flaws which still exist in the narration of a Hadith requires that the following two things must always remain in consideration while investigating the text of a Hadith:
1. Nothing in it should be against the Qur’an and Sunnah
2. Nothing in it should be against established facts derived from knowledge and reason
http://www.renaissance.com.pk/JulHadi2y6.htm
Of course one should believe these principle after due pondering under the guidance of Quran and Sunnah and every effort should be made to harmonize one’s interpretation with Quran.

Click to expand...

Nothing in Quran about Elmahdy

paarsurrey said:

"Elmahdi is not a prophet to accept or reject."

Please elaborate one's understanding from Quran. Right, please?

Regards
____________
#126

Click to expand...

Nothing in Quran about Almahdy

Limo said:

From Arabic language perspective this is totally wrong

Click to expand...

"Arabic"

Will one like to translate the following from Arabic to English, please?:

فقال : إذا رأيتموه فبايعوه ولو حبوا على الثلج فإنه خليفة الله المهدي

Regards
______________
#101
There is no doubt, as I understand, that Muhammad was a guide (Al-Hadi) for the humanity being "rightly guided one" by G-d, rather the Head/Chief of all the "rightly guided ones" and this is one aspect of the title "Khaatam-un-Nabiyyeen" bestowed on him by G-d.
Actually, I understand from Quran, that every prophet/messenger is and has to be an Imam Mahdi and it is another title name of every one of them. Quran describes it thus:
[21:74]وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُمۡ اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا وَ اَوۡحَیۡنَاۤ اِلَیۡہِمۡ فِعۡلَ الۡخَیۡرٰتِ وَ اِقَامَ الصَّلٰوۃِ وَ اِیۡتَآءَ الزَّکٰوۃِ ۚ وَ کَانُوۡا لَنَا عٰبِدِیۡنَ ﴿ۚۙ۷۴﴾
And We made them leaders who guided people by Our command, and We sent revelation to them enjoining the doing of good works, and the observing of Prayer, and the giving of alms. And they were worshippers of Us alone.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 21: Al-Anbiya'
[32:24]وَ لَقَدۡ اٰتَیۡنَا مُوۡسَی الۡکِتٰبَ فَلَا تَکُنۡ فِیۡ مِرۡیَۃٍ مِّنۡ لِّقَآئِہٖ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُ ہُدًی لِّبَنِیۡۤ اِسۡرَآءِیۡلَ ﴿ۚ۲۴﴾
And We did give Moses the Book — be not therefore in doubt as to the meeting with Him — and We made it a guidance for the children of Israel.
[32:25]وَ جَعَلۡنَا مِنۡہُمۡ اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوۡا ۟ؕ وَ کَانُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِنَا یُوۡقِنُوۡنَ ﴿۲۵﴾
And We made from among them leaders, who guided the people by Our command, whilst they themselves were steadfast and had firm faith in Our Signs.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 32: As-Sajdah
[6:90]اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰتَیۡنٰہُمُ الۡکِتٰبَ وَ الۡحُکۡمَ وَ النُّبُوَّۃَ ۚ فَاِنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِہَا ہٰۤؤُلَآءِ فَقَدۡ وَکَّلۡنَا بِہَا قَوۡمًا لَّیۡسُوۡا بِہَا بِکٰفِرِیۡنَ ﴿۹۰﴾
It is these to whom We gave the Book and dominion and prophethood. But if these people are ungrateful for them, it matters not, for We have now entrusted them to a people who are not ungrateful for them.
[6:91]اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ ہَدَی اللّٰہُ فَبِہُدٰٮہُمُ اقۡتَدِہۡ ؕ قُلۡ لَّاۤ اَسۡـَٔلُکُمۡ عَلَیۡہِ اَجۡرًا ؕ اِنۡ ہُوَ اِلَّا ذِکۡرٰی لِلۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ﴿٪۹۱﴾
These it is whom Allah guided aright, so follow thou their guidance. Say: ‘I ask not of you any reward for it. This is naught but an admonition for all mankind.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 6: Al-An`am
[32:25]اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا
"who guided the people by Our command".
The above is plural and it is not difficult to understand that its singular will be Imam Mahdi.
So, in this sense Imam Mahdi is described in Quran, at several places.
Right, please?

Link said:

The point I'm making and I will make it clear, is that the term in Quran has that context with respect to humans. So God he sent me to this world, he brought me into it, but this is not what "sent" means with a human. If it was the case, then the following verse would not make sense:

وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلَّا رِجَالًا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ ۖ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

"We did not send before you except males who we revealed to therefore ask the family of the reminder if you do not know"

The point is "send" here means with a message or revelation in form of divine book from God to people.

It doesn't have with respect to humans any other meaning in Quran or else if it means the same thing as Ar-Rahman 55, we all are Mursaleen (Sent by God) to this world....

This is not what it means.

Click to expand...

As I said this is not an accepted rule from Arabic and Quran understanding perspectives.

paarsurrey said:

"Arabic"

Will one like to translate the following from Arabic to English, please?:

فقال : إذا رأيتموه فبايعوه ولو حبوا على الثلج فإنه خليفة الله المهدي

Regards
______________
#101
There is no doubt, as I understand, that Muhammad was a guide (Al-Hadi) for the humanity being "rightly guided one" by G-d, rather the Head/Chief of all the "rightly guided ones" and this is one aspect of the title "Khaatam-un-Nabiyyeen" bestowed on him by G-d.
Actually, I understand from Quran, that every prophet/messenger is and has to be an Imam Mahdi and it is another title name of every one of them. Quran describes it thus:
[21:74]وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُمۡ اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا وَ اَوۡحَیۡنَاۤ اِلَیۡہِمۡ فِعۡلَ الۡخَیۡرٰتِ وَ اِقَامَ الصَّلٰوۃِ وَ اِیۡتَآءَ الزَّکٰوۃِ ۚ وَ کَانُوۡا لَنَا عٰبِدِیۡنَ ﴿ۚۙ۷۴﴾
And We made them leaders who guided people by Our command, and We sent revelation to them enjoining the doing of good works, and the observing of Prayer, and the giving of alms. And they were worshippers of Us alone.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 21: Al-Anbiya'
[32:24]وَ لَقَدۡ اٰتَیۡنَا مُوۡسَی الۡکِتٰبَ فَلَا تَکُنۡ فِیۡ مِرۡیَۃٍ مِّنۡ لِّقَآئِہٖ وَ جَعَلۡنٰہُ ہُدًی لِّبَنِیۡۤ اِسۡرَآءِیۡلَ ﴿ۚ۲۴﴾
And We did give Moses the Book — be not therefore in doubt as to the meeting with Him — and We made it a guidance for the children of Israel.
[32:25]وَ جَعَلۡنَا مِنۡہُمۡ اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا لَمَّا صَبَرُوۡا ۟ؕ وَ کَانُوۡا بِاٰیٰتِنَا یُوۡقِنُوۡنَ ﴿۲۵﴾
And We made from among them leaders, who guided the people by Our command, whilst they themselves were steadfast and had firm faith in Our Signs.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 32: As-Sajdah
[6:90]اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ اٰتَیۡنٰہُمُ الۡکِتٰبَ وَ الۡحُکۡمَ وَ النُّبُوَّۃَ ۚ فَاِنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِہَا ہٰۤؤُلَآءِ فَقَدۡ وَکَّلۡنَا بِہَا قَوۡمًا لَّیۡسُوۡا بِہَا بِکٰفِرِیۡنَ ﴿۹۰﴾
It is these to whom We gave the Book and dominion and prophethood. But if these people are ungrateful for them, it matters not, for We have now entrusted them to a people who are not ungrateful for them.
[6:91]اُولٰٓئِکَ الَّذِیۡنَ ہَدَی اللّٰہُ فَبِہُدٰٮہُمُ اقۡتَدِہۡ ؕ قُلۡ لَّاۤ اَسۡـَٔلُکُمۡ عَلَیۡہِ اَجۡرًا ؕ اِنۡ ہُوَ اِلَّا ذِکۡرٰی لِلۡعٰلَمِیۡنَ ﴿٪۹۱﴾
These it is whom Allah guided aright, so follow thou their guidance. Say: ‘I ask not of you any reward for it. This is naught but an admonition for all mankind.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 6: Al-An`am
[32:25]اَئِمَّۃً یَّہۡدُوۡنَ بِاَمۡرِنَا
"who guided the people by Our command".
The above is plural and it is not difficult to understand that its singular will be Imam Mahdi.
So, in this sense Imam Mahdi is described in Quran, at several places.
Right, please?

Click to expand...

You're answering yourself my friend
In the beginning you said "guide (Al-Hadi) " ended saying " Imam Mahdi is described in Quran"


The difference is huge between guide and guided. ---- pure English.
Do you understand that "guide Alhady" is totally different from "guided Almahdy" ?

Think in the words you're writing and you'll find the truth in it.

You're trust your schoolars words without knowledge of Arabic language. You don't even think in what you're writing.

Limo said:

You're answering yourself my friend
In the beginning you said "guide (Al-Hadi) " ended saying " Imam Mahdi is described in Quran"


The difference is huge between guide and guided. ---- pure English.
Do you understand that "guide Alhady" is totally different from "guided Almahdy" ?

Think in the words you're writing and you'll find the truth in it.

You're trust your schoolars words without knowledge of Arabic language. You don't even think in what you're writing.

Click to expand...

I don't find one's rendering from Arabic to English of the sentence:
فقال : إذا رأيتموه فبايعوه ولو حبوا على الثلج فإنه خليفة الله المهدي
Did I miss something, please?

Regards

paarsurrey said:

I don't find one's rendering from Arabic to English of the sentence:
فقال : إذا رأيتموه فبايعوه ولو حبوا على الثلج فإنه خليفة الله المهدي
Did I miss something, please?

Regards

Click to expand...

This Hadeeth is simple has no weight in your case.
Prophet Mohamed Said "If you see Almahdy, follow him. Allah appointed him as your leader"
Yes we Moslems should follow him and appoint him as leader.
What's the point ?

Limo said:

This Hadeeth is simple has no weight in your case.
Prophet Mohamed Said "If you see Almahdy, follow him. Allah appointed him as your leader"
Yes we Moslems should follow him and appoint him as leader.
What's the point ?

Click to expand...

Just please translate it, it should not be difficult to render it. Right, please?Also please translate the following:
یٰدَاوٗدُ اِنَّا جَعَلۡنٰکَ خَلِیۡفَۃً فِی الۡاَرۡضِ

Regards

Its a shame that Muslims also fell prey to this end times crap.

Limo said:

As I said this is not an accepted rule from Arabic and Quran understanding perspectives.

Click to expand...

I was listening to Suratal A'raaf yesterday and this is what I came across (and Quran uses this term through out):

قَالَ الْمَلَأُ الَّذِينَ اسْتَكْبَرُوا مِنْ قَوْمِهِ لِلَّذِينَ اسْتُضْعِفُوا لِمَنْ آمَنَ مِنْهُمْ أَتَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّ صَالِحًا مُرْسَلٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ ۚ قَالُوا إِنَّا بِمَا أُرْسِلَ بِهِ مُؤْمِنُونَ


The chiefs of the arrogant from his people said to those weakened from those who believe, do you know Salih is sent (mursal) from his Lord, they said "what he is sent with we believe in".


It can derived from this, the meaning of "sent" is to be sent with "something", that the believers said "what he was sent with we believe in".

So the meaning of "arsal" with respect to humans takes on this special meaning, that God sent them with something to be believed in.

The words Musraleen, arsal, mursal, are all over Quran, and they have this meaning whenever applied to a human.

So God he sends humans with either:

A revelation in a form of divine book/scripture to be held on to the people like Torah and Quran.
A message or messages from God they must deliver to the people and convey the clear message in this regard.
Or both (most Prophets and Messengers were both).

To know it doesn't mean "sent" as in the person is sent without a message, is that Mariam and Sarah are chosen and brought to humanity as chosen ones, but they aren't "sent" who other verses show are only male.


It's important to not just look at ahadith as what they can mean linguistically but they compliment the Quran and Quran should be taken account to what words it emphasizes on.


As we know God ended Prophethood in Chapter 33, he made it clear Mohammad is the final Prophet, so this means the Mahdi is NOT a Prophet, but he is coming with a message or messages that will revive the Quran and Sunnah.