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Heaven vs the Kingdom

where are you going?

  • straight up to heaven

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • going to the grave and wait for bodily resurrection

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • thought it was the same place

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Thief

Rogue Theologian
not having a religion......I lean to the notion that God and heaven don't care such things

what?....Moses isn't there?
Jesus didn't make it?
Muhammad is somewhere else?

I don't think it matters

but if you think heaven is coined in your favor...…..
where are you going?
 

calm

Active Member
So Jesus is a messenger of Allah, according to Muslims? This is odd considering that Jesus was Jewish and all the prophesies written about his lineage and his mission in the Hebrew scriptures, were fulfilled in his birth, his life and his death. He claimed to be "the son of God" and yet Muslims deny this...is that correct?

Where does Mohammad fit into this picture? According to our scripture, Jesus is the last prophet that God sent. There was no need for any others.
Excuse me, but I have to interfere for a moment.
You Jehovah's Witnesses also don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. You do not see the term "Son of God" literally but only as a title, so for you every angel and every man is a son of God.
But Christians believe that Jesus is literally the Son of God. For like the Son of man is man, so also the Son of God is God.

That is why your faith does not differ from that of Muslims. Muslims have no problem at all using the term "Son of God" as a title, like the Jehovah's Witnesses do it. They only have a problem if one sees Jesus as the literal Son of God, which means to be the same being as God.

This is not the only thing where you are wrong, also your statements about paradise are complete nonsense.
I ask you to put the Watchtower book and the Nwt aside and start reading the Bible.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
when reciting the Our Father...

you have declared yourself a son of God

heaven heard it
so too, the devil
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
even though scripture reports
The Kingdom is NOT of this world

It is within you

and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

So.....which is it?
and where do you think you are going?

I believe the fact that the Kingdom is in me means that it is on the earth. However if I were to go to Heave then the Kingdom would be there also.

I believe the actual question ought to be: Where will Jesus be King over His kingdom? The answer to that is on earth.

I believe tonight I am going out to eat. If I die soon I believe I will ask Jesus for a new life and He will grant it. If Jesus returns before I die I will go to the New Jerusalem in the sky and descend later with it to the earth.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
What do you know about the sons of Ishmael? They are also descendants of Abraham
Did not God say to Hajar that it is a great nation
In Jewish belief do you think Muslims will go to heaven
Mohammadiyim

I believe most Muslims would not know the way to Heaven.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Yes, Ishmael and his children were made to a great people by God and they were blessed. But by the seed Abraham I mean the children of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. And only the chosen children of the 12 tribes of Israel will enter heaven, for so it is written.

I believe the scripture says otherwise.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
SISTER :oops:
READ THIS
7: 40 Those who reject Our revelations and are too arrogant to uphold them—the doors of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise, until the camel passes through the eye of the needle. Thus We repay the guilty.

CLEARLY MUSLIMS WILL ENTER HEAVEN

Friend, I never mentioned anything about Muslims not entering heaven. I asked whether you understand the Bible’s reference to “paradise” as necessarily referring to heaven, when the first paradise mentioned in scripture was on earth.

When Jesus told the thief who was hung alongside him that he would be “with him in paradise”, (Luke 23:43) was he telling this criminal that he would go to heaven? I think not....I believe that Jesus was promising him a place in the earthly paradise when he resurrects all the dead. (John 5:28-29) He will call all the dead from their graves....’righteous and unrighteousness’.

According to the prophet Isaiah, God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11) I don’t believe that God ever intended humans to go to heaven. The fact that he did, was only in response to Adam’s sin....taking us back to our intended beginnings.

I see so much focus on “entering heaven”, but as I read my scripture, I see that it was never mentioned as a destination for earthlings until Jesus came and offered a select “few” a role as ‘kings and priests’ in his kingdom. God chooses them.

Jesus said that “the meek will inherit the earth” so why can’t paradise be right here, restored to God’s original purpose?

Those whom God chooses to assist his appointed King will rule over earthly subjects, bringing them back into an approved standing with their Creator. Living forever was meant to be enjoyed here on earth. That is the Bible’s message to me. It means that I will never go to heaven and I am happy to remain on earth to enjoy my earthly paradise as God originally intended.

Would you find such a prospect objectionable? If so, why?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
and who was Cain afraid of?

and who was Cain's wife?

and Cain built a city and named it for his son
who live there?

The Bible account in Genesis is an outline that leaves out a lot of detail.

If you read Genesis 5:4-5 it says....
“After becoming father to Seth, Adam lived for 800 years. And he became father to sons and daughters. 5 So all the days of Adam’s life amounted to 930 years, and then he died.“

The mention of “daughters” passes without details...no names are mentioned and if there were daughters between the sons, they may never have rated a mention. The womenfolk who survived the flood are never named but all the males are.

Here is an explanation...
Where Did Cain Find His Wife? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The Bible account in Genesis is an outline that leaves out a lot of detail.
yes it does...…

but I don't look to Watch Tower as rebuttal
(seen their pamphlets …..no thank you)

the scripture holds sufficient
in spite of omissions

Man as a species....Day Six
Day Seven.....rest.....and nothing more will be created
THEN Chapter Two

an isolated event
chosen specimen
anesthesia
surgery
cloning
test
release into the environment

SCIENCE !
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Excuse me, but I have to interfere for a moment.
You Jehovah's Witnesses also don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God. You do not see the term "Son of God" literally but only as a title, so for you every angel and every man is a son of God.
But Christians believe that Jesus is literally the Son of God. For like the Son of man is man, so also the Son of God is God.

That is why your faith does not differ from that of Muslims.
LOL...... I just love it when people tell me what I believe. :rolleyes: Oh dear.....let me straighten this out for you....

JW’s do not believe that Jesus was just “a” “son of God” because Jesus himself said that he was "THE son of God"....but you know, something he never said....was that he was "God"....not once.
John 10:34-36...
"Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35 If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36 do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?" (NASB)

He said that his Father was "the only true God" and that he was 'sent' by him. (John 17:3) It's a bit hard to 'send' yourself....to pray to yourself....to know things that the other equal parts of you don't know......and to raise yourself from the dead....the Bible itself shows that your trinity is nonsense.

The term "only begotten" (monogenes) means an "only child".....one with no siblings. That means that Jesus is a unique creation of his Father.....the only one produced as the "firstborn" of his spirit sons. (Revelation 3:14) How is Jesus unique then? No other 'son of God' was created directly by the Father.....all creation came through the agency of the son. (Colossians 1:15-17) There is no other "son of God" like Jesus. He holds a position in heaven that no other spirit being can fill. He is is Father's most trusted "servant" (Acts 3:13)....his 'right hand man'....the only Commander of the angelic forces.
Acts 3:13...
"The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him." (NASB)

How can one part of God be a servant of his equal self?

The apostles were in no doubt who Jesus was....Paul wrote...
"For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him." (1 Corinthians 8:5-6 NASB)
Jesus was not "God" to his apostles. He taught them to pray to, and to worship their Father. He addressed them as his brothers....not his sons.

Just as we have no beliefs in common with Christendom, so we have no beliefs in common with Islam.

BTW, Did you know that in all of scripture there is not one mention of the holy spirit being at God's left hand.....I wonder why?

Muslims have no problem at all using the term "Son of God" as a title, like the Jehovah's Witnesses do it. They only have a problem if one sees Jesus as the literal Son of God, which means to be the same being as God.

Funny, that is how the Jews saw it too....both are in error IMO.

Being the son of God in no way made Jesus into a deity. It never says "God the Son".....Catholicism invented that title. What we have is a Greek word (theos) that means "god" in their language. They were polytheistic and had no word for the singular, but nameless God of the Jews, so they applied the word "theos" to both God and his son because, in essence it means "a divine mighty one"....no one can deny Christ's divine status, but nowhere is he ever called Almighty God by any of his disciples....that would have been blasphemy. It still is.

This is not the only thing where you are wrong, also your statements about paradise are complete nonsense.
They are entirely backed up by scripture. Are you telling me that the first paradise mentioned in the Bible was not on earth? That the thief hung alongside Jesus is somehow a ruler in heaven?

What does Revelation 21:2-4 say about who the Kingdom is ruling?

"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.


This is a heavenly rulership (Christ with his bride) and it has earthly subjects. Everything that causes pain and suffering on this earth will be gone...a thing of the past.

I ask you to put the Watchtower book and the Nwt aside and start reading the Bible.

I read the Bible and did not understand anything that was taught in my former church. The Witnesses came into my life and my understanding of the scriptures has steadily increased ever since. I studied my own KJV in the beginning as I didn't want any other Bible to teach me what my church couldn't. It did not take me long to see through everything I was taught......none of it was the truth....it was a collection of foreign doctrines introduced by corrupt men, adding all manner of false religious 'adoptions' until "Christianity" became nothing like the original faith started by Jesus and his apostles....but surprising to me was the fact that this had been foretold to take place. What masquerades as "Christianity" today...is no such thing.

Would you like a list of the obvious differences? The trinity is first on that list.

I will pit the NWT against any Bible translation you care to use. Please show me where you think it is in error....and I will show you why it is not. As you can see I didn't use it once in this response.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
yes it does...…

but I don't look to Watch Tower as rebuttal
(seen their pamphlets …..no thank you)

It was all scripture.....pity you can't bear to look at it. No matter...your choice.

the scripture holds sufficient
in spite of omissions

Man as a species....Day Six
Day Seven.....rest.....and nothing more will be created
THEN Chapter Two

an isolated event
chosen specimen
anesthesia
surgery
cloning
test
release into the environment

SCIENCE !

Ah...a science convert....nuff said.

Did you know that day 7 has not ended yet?
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Friend, I never mentioned anything about Muslims not entering heaven. I asked whether you understand the Bible’s reference to “paradise” as necessarily referring to heaven, when the first paradise mentioned in scripture was on earth.

When Jesus told the thief who was hung alongside him that he would be “with him in paradise”, (Luke 23:43) was he telling this criminal that he would go to heaven? I think not....I believe that Jesus was promising him a place in the earthly paradise when he resurrects all the dead. (John 5:28-29) He will call all the dead from their graves....’righteous and unrighteousness’.

According to the prophet Isaiah, God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11) I don’t believe that God ever intended humans to go to heaven. The fact that he did, was only in response to Adam’s sin....taking us back to our intended beginnings.

I see so much focus on “entering heaven”, but as I read my scripture, I see that it was never mentioned as a destination for earthlings until Jesus came and offered a select “few” a role as ‘kings and priests’ in his kingdom. God chooses them.

Jesus said that “the meek will inherit the earth” so why can’t paradise be right here, restored to God’s original purpose?

Those whom God chooses to assist his appointed King will rule over earthly subjects, bringing them back into an approved standing with their Creator. Living forever was meant to be enjoyed here on earth. That is the Bible’s message to me. It means that I will never go to heaven and I am happy to remain on earth to enjoy my earthly paradise as God originally intended.

Would you find such a prospect objectionable? If so, why?

The Bible is a message dedicated to the children of Israel
Like a global food relief program to son of isreal
There are also other programs
The other program was for the world, the message of Mohammed
You can look for in Google
The name of Muhammad is found in the ancient and modern Bible and gospel
Does not need to deny
There is a copy of the book of the Gospel of Barnabas before the birth of the Prophet Muhammad speaks that there is a Prophet after Jesus and will be the Prophet Muhammad (Ahmad)

Paradise size will be displayed by heavens and earth and less paradise size for those not working hard
I will put a link verse give you the size of paradise
3:133 And race towards forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden as wide as the heavens and the earth, prepared for the righteous.

and for whome not working hard and belive only
21 Race towards forgiveness from your Lord; and a Garden as vast as the heaven and the earth, prepared for those who believe in God and His messengers. That is the grace of God; He bestows it on whomever He wills. God is the Possessor of Immense Grace.

only heaven without heavens

And one hadith also speak of a great tree in paradise in heaven that If the spead horse ran five hundred years would not cross it

The sons of Isaac, the children of Israel, will enter paradise, but who denies the verses, I mean total faith in God Almighty

The Qur'an is a message from God and after the advent of Prophet Muhammad we must believe in the Qur'an and the last Prophet

As for jews and christians fate, I do not know but will not receive the full prize if they deny mohammed prophet and quran
Because God does not forgive to believe in him and with him partners (other god with him), but forgive those who will after that if he wants

To say that Jesus is the Son of God is an infidel and his destiny is hell
But I don't know also how the court will defend themselves because they thought the Bible was God's book and that it was true
Will the liars be tortured or the victims suspended until the court ends?

The Jews do not want to believe in the Prophet Muhammad because they believe that he is a descendant servant Hagar فاث wife of Abraham's

Judaism did not exist at the time of Prophet Abraham
The first sons of Abraham is Ishmael
Abraham was first pray to God to Ishmael before the coming of Isaac
Do you think God will reject Abraham's prayer to make Ishmael stay in the earth?
No absurdity of this

The existence of information about Abraham in the Torah does not mean that Jews have a right to exclude others
there is no evidence that heaven will be exclusive or limited to the children of Israel

The first house built by Abraham to worship God is the Kaaba in Mecca
It is mentioned in the Bible
Baka
Or the name of the Valley of tears (cry)
Evidence of the presence of Jews in Saudi Arabia a lot
Why did they leave Jerusalem and Palestine and lived in these places, especially in Mecca?
Is not Jerusalem the only way of heaven?

People of the Holy Books mean Jews and Christians

Jesus is not a last prophet and intelligently I can prove it with the contradictory behaviors and fallacies of the Christian doctrine

much non muslims also said that don't want worship human being eat and farting on earth




Allah sent Muhammad his mercy to the worlds
The world of mankind and jinn
The Jews knew he was a prophet but they refused and I will give you proof that the Jews are convinced that the Prophet Muhammad is true

Paradise will not be on earth
The land will be changed and in the Qur'an it will be mentioned
verse of abraham
14:48 On the Day when the earth is changed into another earth, and the heavens, and they will emerge before God, the One, the Irresistible.

People will all be in a different land and there is a way up for the commission
People will pass according to people's good and bad actions
Who works well and honest and does not steal and good manners it climbs like lightning
Whoever steals a believer, his ascension will be hard and difficult and once fall and relates and then ascends and so on

The unbelievers will fall and will not be able to ascend. in the pit of hell

A Jew and a Christian who deliberately disbelieves in Muhammad and the Koran after hearing the whole message of Islam will enter the fire
If it's deliberate

The Christian will be immortalized in the fire because he worshiped another one with God, Jesus
If the Jews believe in God one will be punished but will may never be like a Christian
Because the Christian worshiped another part with God
but the case what if they were no understand

4:48 God does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives anything less than that to whomever He wills. Whoever associates anything with God has devised a monstrous sin.

4:116 God will not forgive that partners be associated with Him; but will forgive anything less than that, to whomever He wills. Anyone who ascribes partners to God has strayed into far error.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Friend, I never mentioned anything about Muslims not entering heaven. I asked whether you understand the Bible’s reference to “paradise” as necessarily referring to heaven, when the first paradise mentioned in scripture was on earth.

When Jesus told the thief who was hung alongside him that he would be “with him in paradise”, (Luke 23:43) was he telling this criminal that he would go to heaven? I think not....I believe that Jesus was promising him a place in the earthly paradise when he resurrects all the dead. (John 5:28-29) He will call all the dead from their graves....’righteous and unrighteousness’.

According to the prophet Isaiah, God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11) I don’t believe that God ever intended humans to go to heaven. The fact that he did, was only in response to Adam’s sin....taking us back to our intended beginnings.

I see so much focus on “entering heaven”, but as I read my scripture, I see that it was never mentioned as a destination for earthlings until Jesus came and offered a select “few” a role as ‘kings and priests’ in his kingdom. God chooses them.

Jesus said that “the meek will inherit the earth” so why can’t paradise be right here, restored to God’s original purpose?

Those whom God chooses to assist his appointed King will rule over earthly subjects, bringing them back into an approved standing with their Creator. Living forever was meant to be enjoyed here on earth. That is the Bible’s message to me. It means that I will never go to heaven and I am happy to remain on earth to enjoy my earthly paradise as God originally intended.

Would you find such a prospect objectionable? If so, why?


there is one anime story call
Oban Star Racers
This series talks about the journey of entering the participation of universe contestants
The human race was the weakest group and was despised
But in a way the human race triumphed
Surprisingly, the character who get the big prize was a minor factor in the group and was not the leader
Thus, what will be in the future will surprise the children of Israel to the presence of unknown figures in the vanguard and leadership and will be jealous

Because Allah Azza wa Jalla is not stingy
He does not live in a house with limited seats
Whoever will do a heroic act will be close to God

Heroic action is honesty, worship, good deeds, respect for others, humility for them and love for the poor
Praying to God and crying to God and sincere repentance with God


The story is fanciful and far from faith and the existence of the Creator
But I wanted to clarify the idea that the real success may be the weakest one
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The name of Muhammad is found in the ancient and modern Bible and gospel
Does not need to deny
There is a copy of the book of the Gospel of Barnabas before the birth of the Prophet Muhammad speaks that there is a Prophet after Jesus and will be the Prophet Muhammad (Ahmad)

My reply will be brief because your scenario is based on the words of someone I do not trust...sorry.

I took your advice and Googled information on the Gospel of Barnabas. I had never heard of it, so I was interested to find out.

This site gave some interesting insights....

The Gospel of Barnabas

The Gospel of Barnabas is not part of the accepted Bible canon (apparently for good reason) and is therefore inadmissible as a proof that Mohammad was ever a true prophet of God. I cannot accept him or the Qur'an as the word of God....for the simple reason that my God is not your God, and your God is not my God. We have each chosen our deity.

The rest of your post is from your own holy book which I am afraid means nothing to me. It seems to condemn any who are not Muslims. That is your belief and you are entitled to it. It is not my belief and it seems to me that it is Muslim countries that have the highest rate of refugees fleeing violence and oppression. That does not speak well of Islam as a peaceful religion to me.

It would have been nice if you had just answered my questions. :shrug:
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
My reply will be brief because your scenario is based on the words of someone I do not trust...sorry.

I took your advice and Googled information on the Gospel of Barnabas. I had never heard of it, so I was interested to find out.

This site gave some interesting insights....

The Gospel of Barnabas

The Gospel of Barnabas is not part of the accepted Bible canon (apparently for good reason) and is therefore inadmissible as a proof that Mohammad was ever a true prophet of God. I cannot accept him or the Qur'an as the word of God....for the simple reason that my God is not your God, and your God is not my God. We have each chosen our deity.

The rest of your post is from your own holy book which I am afraid means nothing to me. It seems to condemn any who are not Muslims. That is your belief and you are entitled to it. It is not my belief and it seems to me that it is Muslim countries that have the highest rate of refugees fleeing violence and oppression. That does not speak well of Islam as a peaceful religion to me.

It would have been nice if you had just answered my questions. :shrug:
Is that what you call brief?:D
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
My reply will be brief because your scenario is based on the words of someone I do not trust...sorry.

I took your advice and Googled information on the Gospel of Barnabas. I had never heard of it, so I was interested to find out.

This site gave some interesting insights....

The Gospel of Barnabas

The Gospel of Barnabas is not part of the accepted Bible canon (apparently for good reason) and is therefore inadmissible as a proof that Mohammad was ever a true prophet of God. I cannot accept him or the Qur'an as the word of God....for the simple reason that my God is not your God, and your God is not my God. We have each chosen our deity.

The rest of your post is from your own holy book which I am afraid means nothing to me. It seems to condemn any who are not Muslims. That is your belief and you are entitled to it. It is not my belief and it seems to me that it is Muslim countries that have the highest rate of refugees fleeing violence and oppression. That does not speak well of Islam as a peaceful religion to me.

It would have been nice if you had just answered my questions. :shrug:


The Islamic world has been subjected to aggression and colonialism for centuries
The presence of Muslims in Andalusia was not in the hands of Arabs, but the Berbers, such as Libya and Algeria
We have been colonized by the Romans and Persians and for the last centuries we are in colonialism and we got independence from Britain 1971
Then Israel make war against the Arabs
Politics is the destruction of Arab economies that could pose a threat to Israel
I myself want peace with Israel and sincere in my words
But the economy is being immorally subverted by the invisible hands

And then you say we will go to heaven
Shall we go to heaven by stealing the Palestinian territories? And colonize Africa and enslave people and loot their goods and their abilities and you will go to heaven, how is it possible
God loves the righteous and does not love the oppressors

Secondly, Wikipedia is a site that is prepared by ordinary people

I will give you a headline from an official newspaper with the name of Muhammad in the prophecy
Bible BOMBSHELL? Jesus Christ was NOT crucified according to ancient 'Gospel of Barnabas'


I also do not want to continue the dialogue because is painful
We are his brother and in the Islamic concept that the sons of Israel and the sons of Ishmael and I mean the righteous will be side by side and the best of them will be the most powerful in Piety and sincere work with God

Yusuf Estes - Wikipedia
an American preacher from Texas who converted from Christianity to Islam in 1991
why

thanks
take care
 
Last edited:

pearl

Well-Known Member
Neither is a 'place' but a time when the 'Kingdom', here, now, but not yet, ultimately the reign or rule of God.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The Islamic world has been subjected to aggression and colonialism for centuries
The presence of Muslims in Andalusia was not in the hands of Arabs, but the Berbers, such as Libya and Algeria
We have been colonized by the Romans and Persians and for the last centuries we are in colonialism and we got independence from Britain 1971
Then Israel make war against the Arabs
Politics is the destruction of Arab economies that could pose a threat to Israel
I myself want peace with Israel and sincere in my words
But the economy is being immorally subverted by the invisible hands

What does this have to do with anything Jesus taught? Was Jesus a prophet? Did he not foretell trouble for the earth? But didnt he teach us to control our emotions, our actions and our thought processes? Didn't he teach us to love our enemies and to be no part of the world? It has always had its troubles and Jesus warned that his disciples would be hated and persecuted, but they were to offer no resistance....no retaliation. Vengeance belongs to God....not us.

You can see who the true disciples of Jesus are by the fact that they refuse to participate in the political violence seen in many parts of the world. They are true peacemakers, Because they refuse to engage in carnal warfare or violence of any sort.

And then you say we will go to heaven
Shall we go to heaven by stealing the Palestinian territories? And colonize Africa and enslave people and loot their goods and their abilities and you will go to heaven, how is it possible
God loves the righteous and does not love the oppressors

God chooses who goes to heaven. I am not one of them. I have no doubt that God knows exactly whom he will save and whom he will eliminate from existence. (Those are the only two choices according to the Bible) I do not believe that God ever meant for any human to go to heaven....why would he? Earth was meant to be out permanent home. Why is that so hard to accept? Why can't the paradise be the one God intended for us all along? Open your mind and heart and see how reasonable that prospect is.

As for who God deems to be faithful to him....the courage of the martyrs comes to mind.....
The martyrdom we see in Islam is not true martyrdom at all. You can't kill yourself and others if you are a follower of Jesus' teachings. A true martyr has their life taken by their enemies and it is a true sacrifice if it was done without compromise. Like the first Christians presented to the Roman crowds for entertainment in the arenas.....all the Christians had to do to walk free was to place a pinch of incense on the alter as an act of worship to the Emperor, but they refused, knowing that they would suffer death by being torn apart by hungry lions. Whole families suffered this death. That is true martyrdom.

Secondly, Wikipedia is a site that is prepared by ordinary people

I will give you a headline from an official newspaper with the name of Muhammad in the prophecy
Bible BOMBSHELL? Jesus Christ was NOT crucified according to ancient 'Gospel of Barnabas'

The Gospel of Barnabas is not scripture to us. This is nothing more than anti-Christian propaganda to me. If Jesus Christ was not crucified as the ultimate martyr, then we are all still in our sins and condemned to eternal death. Christ's sacrifice is what redeemed humanity....it was a precious gift from God that assured us of forgiveness of our sins and a resurrection into paradise....for the majority of mankind, that will be a return to life on earth restored to its original paradise conditions. Very few are chosen for a heavenly assignment.

I also do not want to continue the dialogue because is painful
I understand why it is painful....there are no real solutions as long as humans are divided on religious grounds, judging one another and condemning one another. No one wants to be wrong.

We are his brother and in the Islamic concept that the sons of Israel and the sons of Ishmael and I mean the righteous will be side by side and the best of them will be the most powerful in Piety and sincere work with God

True brothers do not hate one another....they do not drop bombs or fire rockets at one another. They don't ignore the plight of the innocent ones caught up in the expressions of their "righteous" hatred.

The ridiculous situation in the Middle East has been going on for centuries....but hatred and bloodshed do not represent the teachings of Jesus Christ. So I believe that all humans need to rethink their position on these things.....where there is bloodshed, God is absent. He will cover his ears to the prayers of those with blood on their hands, no matter how pious or religious they pretend to be. (Isaiah 1:15) Its about our actions and what is in our hearts. We can never justify violence to God. When we do, we stop following Jesus. God then leaves us to our justifications.

Yusuf Estes - Wikipedia
an American preacher from Texas who converted from Christianity to Islam in 1991
why

Today's Christianity is not what Jesus began, so we see so many defecting from religion altogether because of the blatant hypocrisy in all of them. Who can blame them?

But Jehovah's Witnesses have thousands of former Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and refugees from Christendom's many sects, who have found true peace in following the true teachings of Jesus Christ. There can be no fanaticism.....no slavery to ritual as if mere performance is all that God requires...it's all about the heart. That is where true peace originates.

I wish you peace.
 
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