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Heaven vs the Kingdom

where are you going?

  • straight up to heaven

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • going to the grave and wait for bodily resurrection

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • thought it was the same place

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Paul speaks correctly. Sure , I know it "partially" now.
and I am sure...….altogether
we end up alongside others that think and feel as we do

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?

and as any Gentile would say.....Know thyself
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
According to the Bible, all good Gentiles will inherit the earth and live there forever. These Gentiles are also called the "righteous. (Psalm 37:11, 29, 34)(Revelation 7:9)
But the good Jews will go to heaven and live there forever and reign with God. These Jews will be called the "chosen ones". (Revelation 7:4)(1 Peter 1:3-4)(Mark 13:27)
The resurrection to life in heaven is called "the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:6). This shows that there will be another resurrection on earth.
So there are two different groups that will receive eternal life. This becomes clear in Revelation 7:4-9.

Jesus also mentions 2 different folds of sheep following him, the first fold are the Jews and the other fold representing the gentiles. (John 10:16)

Thanks brother for the reply and for the links
I appreciate your effort
I pray to Allah the Almighty and the Merciful to bring us all together in Paradise

As our belief
The children of Israel were chosen by God in their time, but in a period of time many left faith in the Prophet Muhammad, who was preached in the Bible
That's what we have
And we shall be with the children of Israel in heaven
And in our order
The Virgin Mary is the master of women in paradise in heaven
Muhammad peace be upon him, the master of the people of paradise in heaven
And Jew would not be better than any human race except piety
Who holds the best ethics will be the most successful
Otherwise, why did God choose the children of Israel before?
For they were of great manners, piety, and good deeds.
If someone believed in God from anywhere in the world and doing good deeds would be eligible to receive a prize like the righteous and the prophets
God's prizes are not limited
The space of the universe is vast
All grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills.” God is Bounteous and Knowing.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Man was created on Day Six
no names
no garden
no law

Day Seven...rest
and nothing more will be created

Were the creative "days" literal 24 hour periods according to your belief?
This is, I believe, what undoes the whole YEC scenario.

THEN Chapter Two
which is NOT a retelling of Chapter One

Yes, it's a "history" of the things that concerned humans.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
As our belief
The children of Israel were chosen by God in their time, but in a period of time many left faith in the Prophet Muhammad, who was preached in the Bible
That's what we have
And we shall be with the children of Israel in heaven

Where do you get the idea that all believers will be in heaven? Israel were never given a promise of heaven. There was never a "heaven or hell" scenario in their scripture. There was only life or death offered to them. If they obeyed God, they were promised life...if they disobeyed, it would mean death....the ancient Jews had no belief in an immortal soul because their scripture does not even mention it. All false religion it seems holds to that belief however.

And in our order
The Virgin Mary is the master of women in paradise in heaven
Muhammad peace be upon him, the master of the people of paradise in heaven

Why does paradise have to be heaven? The first paradise was on earth. God put us in an earthly paradise and indicated that we would live in these beautiful conditions on earth forever. Adam's sin spoiled that for all of us. But God did not abandon his first purpose. That would make him a failure. Can God ever be a failure because something his intelligent creation did? No, God used the rebellion of his intelligent creatures to his own advantage. It is how he tests us all to see who will obey and who will justify disobedience.

And Jew would not be better than any human race except piety
Who holds the best ethics will be the most successful
Otherwise, why did God choose the children of Israel before?
For they were of great manners, piety, and good deeds.
If someone believed in God from anywhere in the world and doing good deeds would be eligible to receive a prize like the righteous and the prophets

God chose Israel only because of his promise to father Abraham....these were the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The promise was made to Isaac, not to Ishmael.
In order to be an acceptable worshippers of the true God, one had to come into his nation and live their life governed by God's laws. No one could bring foreign beliefs or foreign gods into God's nation.

God's prizes are not limited
The space of the universe is vast
All grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills.” God is Bounteous and Knowing.

I am afraid that God is, and always has been, very selective. Not all humans are in a spiritually clean condition in his eyes. God is selecting from among mankind those who qualify for life by observing all the teachings of Jesus Christ, which all came from his Father. It includes people from all races and faiths, but they must strip off their former ways and beliefs before they can be acceptable as citizens of God’s incoming earthly kingdom.

Since we believe that Jesus was the foretold “prophet like Moses” he had to be a descendent of Abraham, but he also had to be a “son of David”, so that eliminates any other prophet from any other faith for us. Islam to me, seems to be a religion that is half way between Judaism and Christianity but it seems to retain its ancient culture....a culture of rigid religious rituals....and justified bloodshed, but that in no way reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ. Why do you think there are so many fleeing from Muslim countries?

If any religion wants to shed blood for any reason, that to us is the wrong religion, regardless of what it claims to be....even “Christian”...it’s not what you say...it’s what you do in obedience to his laws that counts with God. That means being at peace with all, no matter what provocation is used, we will never resort to violence.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Were the creative "days" literal 24 hour periods according to your belief?
This is, I believe, what undoes the whole YEC scenario.



Yes, it's a "history" of the things that concerned humans.
I believe in evolution

somewhere it is written....a day in the life of God is like unto a thousand years
not exactly a thousand
like unto a thousand

the scribe was trying to express a length of time
beyond the scope of current readers

and the garden event tells of an alteration
you can call it history if you like
but I believe the event happened

not to be history
but to change it
before it unfolded
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
besides...…

picture yourself as one of the angelic
trying to break bread and share wine with a talking monkey

doesn't look like heaven to me

and I'm sure the angelic would agree
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Otherwise, why did God choose the children of Israel before?
they believed in a Greater Spirit
that moved like the wind
having no Name

their perspective was easier to approach

imagine trying to approach someone kneeling to a stone idol

if you speak.....they might think it's the image before them

SO...….no graven image before you
that would not be God

and that made the Jews more approachable
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Moses went up unto the mount to meet his Maker

he had been influenced by the people he wandered with
who spoke of Something Greater
unseen

Moses did not go there seeking the idols he knew in the house of Pharaoh

and Moses had no intention of return
he was 80yrs old

he went upon the mount......to die

didn't work out that way
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
and to what heaven do you expect to approach?

that of Moses?
of Jesus?
of Muhammad?

or maybe something else altogether?

and do you think you have what it takes?
to make the choice and have what you think you are chasing after
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
This is how it works:
"12 For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known.

I guess that depends on what you think "then" "at present" and "now" means in Paul's response here. Back then the "sacred secret" was slowly unfolding, and by the time of the apostles' death, much more was known than before Christ came into the world.
But Daniel foretold that in "the time of the end" an abundance of knowledge would be made available and that it would result in a 'cleansing, whitening and refining' of God's people. (the ones to whom Daniel wrote)

Daniel 12:3-4...9-10 says...
"And those having insight will shine as brightly as the expanse of heaven, and those bringing the many to righteousness like the stars, forever and ever.
4 “As for you, Daniel, keep the words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rove about, and knowledge will become abundant. . . . Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. 10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand.


We are living in "the time of the end" right now....so now is the time for God to reveal all to his anointed ones, both in heaven and on earth. Those on earth are "the faithful and discreet slave" (Matthew 24:45) whom Jesus appointed to "feed" their fellow slaves, "food at the proper time". Not physical food but spiritual food, dispensed in increments.

So not all at once was this enlightenment to be revealed, but what they needed to know, when they needed to know it, was to be disseminated among the faithful as the day for Christ's "coming" drew closer.
The wicked would not accept the cleansing and so would be granted no insight or understanding.They would remain in spiritual darkness, in slavery to their errors.

The true disciples of Jesus no longer see a "hazy outline" but the light on the path has continued to brighten as the time for Jesus' return approached. (Proverbs 4:18).


"Three stages of evolution - faith ,hope, agape.
Where are you on this ladder?

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean....? :shrug: What ladder is this?

Paul clearly stated that "faith, hope and love" would be the identifying traits of a true Christian. We no longer look to tricks that the devil can mimic, because that is what spiritual babies expect.....mature Christians rely on much more substantial proofs of Christ's backing....those who display the kind of "faith, hope and love" that keeps them in expectation of his promises, never finding justification for the things that Christ's teachings condemn. (like bloodshed or sexual immorality)

The 'wheat and the weeds' have 'grown together' but the 'harvest' is about to be undertaken....ready or not.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I * believe in evolution

* Did you mean to add a "don't" in there? :shrug: The rest of your post makes no sense otherwise....

somewhere it is written....a day in the life of God is like unto a thousand years
not exactly a thousand
like unto a thousand

the scribe was trying to express a length of time
beyond the scope of current readers

2 Peter 3:8? The Creator is not bound by time...especially not earth time.
By reminding people that God does not operate in the same timeframe as we do, he allows for the lengths of time to be not long for God, but a long time for us.

and the garden event tells of an alteration
you can call it history if you like
but I believe the event happened

Can you elaborate...? What was the event and what was the result of it?

not to be history
but to change it
before it unfolded

I am not even sure what that means.....can you please explain this statement....
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
proof read and go slow

I DO believe in evolution

the garden event occurred to change the mind and body of ONE individual
that person was cloned

the couple were then released into the environment

they were not the first to walk this earth
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Where do you get the idea that all believers will be in heaven? Israel were never given a promise of heaven. There was never a "heaven or hell" scenario in their scripture. There was only life or death offered to them. If they obeyed God, they were promised life...if they disobeyed, it would mean death....the ancient Jews had no belief in an immortal soul because their scripture does not even mention it. All false religion it seems holds to that belief however.



Why does paradise have to be heaven? The first paradise was on earth. God put us in an earthly paradise and indicated that we would live in these beautiful conditions on earth forever. Adam's sin spoiled that for all of us. But God did not abandon his first purpose. That would make him a failure. Can God ever be a failure because something his intelligent creation did? No, God used the rebellion of his intelligent creatures to his own advantage. It is how he tests us all to see who will obey and who will justify disobedience.



God chose Israel only because of his promise to father Abraham....these were the children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The promise was made to Isaac, not to Ishmael.
In order to be an acceptable worshippers of the true God, one had to come into his nation and live their life governed by God's laws. No one could bring foreign beliefs or foreign gods into God's nation.



I am afraid that God is, and always has been, very selective. Not all humans are in a spiritually clean condition in his eyes. God is selecting from among mankind those who qualify for life by observing all the teachings of Jesus Christ, which all came from his Father. It includes people from all races and faiths, but they must strip off their former ways and beliefs before they can be acceptable as citizens of God’s incoming earthly kingdom.

Since we believe that Jesus was the foretold “prophet like Moses” he had to be a descendent of Abraham, but he also had to be a “son of David”, so that eliminates any other prophet from any other faith for us. Islam to me, seems to be a religion that is half way between Judaism and Christianity but it seems to retain its ancient culture....a culture of rigid religious rituals....and justified bloodshed, but that in no way reflects the teachings of Jesus Christ. Why do you think there are so many fleeing from Muslim countries?

If any religion wants to shed blood for any reason, that to us is the wrong religion, regardless of what it claims to be....even “Christian”...it’s not what you say...it’s what you do in obedience to his laws that counts with God. That means being at peace with all, no matter what provocation is used, we will never resort to violence.


I will attach some verses from the god speak in Qur'an to illustrate the misunderstanding of the Jews
My brother, I don't want to attack but let's study and understand each other
(Cultural exchange)
Peace

2:111
And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

4:22 to 126
But the ones who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. [It is] the promise of Allah, [which is] truth, and who is more truthful than Allah in statement.

Paradise is not [obtained] by your wishful thinking nor by that of the People of the Scripture. Whoever does a wrong will be recompensed for it, and he will not find besides Allah a protector or a helper.

And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, while being a believer - those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged, [even as much as] the speck on a date seed.

And who is better in religion than one who submits himself to Allah while being a doer of good and follows the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth? And Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend.

And to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And ever is Allah, of all things, encompassing.


5:18
But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.

9:72
Allah has promised the believing men and believing women gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally, and pleasant dwellings in gardens of perpetual residence; but approval from Allah is greater. It is that which is the great attainment.

3:67 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a Monotheist, a Muslim. And he was not of the Polytheists.

68 The people most deserving of Abraham are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe. God is the Guardian of the believers.

69 A party of the People of the Book would love to lead you astray, but they only lead themselves astray, and they do not realize it.

70 O People of the Book! Why do you reject the revelations of God, even as you witness?

71 O People of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with falsehood, and knowingly conceal the truth?

72 Some of the People of the Book say, “Believe in what was revealed to the believers at the beginning of the day, and reject it at its end, so that they may return.”

73 And trust none except those who follow your religion.” Say, “Guidance is God’s guidance. If someone is given the like of what you were given, or they argue with you before your Lord, say, “All grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills.” God is Bounteous and Knowing.

74 He specifies His mercy for whomever He wills. God is Possessor of Sublime Grace.

75 Among the People of the Book is he, who, if you entrust him with a heap of gold, he will give it back to you. And among them is he, who, if you entrust him with a single coin, he will not give it back to you, unless you keep after him. That is because they say, “We are under no obligation towards the gentiles.” They tell lies about God, and they know it.

76 Indeed, whoever fulfills his commitments and maintains piety—God loves the pious.


57: 26 We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and the Scripture. Some of them are guided, but many of them are sinners.

27 Then We sent in their wake Our messengers, and followed up with Jesus son of Mary, and We gave him the Gospel, and instilled in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. But as for the monasticism which they invented—We did not ordain it for them—only to seek God’s approval. But they did not observe it with its due observance. So We gave those of them who believed their reward, but many of them are sinful.

28 O you who believe! Fear God, and believe in His Messenger: He will give you a double portion of His mercy, and will give you a light by which you walk, and will forgive you. God is Forgiving and Merciful.


29 That the People of the Book may know that they have no power whatsoever over God’s grace, and that all grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills. God is Possessor of Great Grace.


finely this verse
Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.


i hope that understand little my
opinions
 
Last edited:

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
they believed in a Greater Spirit
that moved like the wind
having no Name

their perspective was easier to approach

imagine trying to approach someone kneeling to a stone idol

if you speak.....they might think it's the image before them

SO...….no graven image before you
that would not be God

and that made the Jews more approachable

But this is not logic
If I worship God more superiorly than the Jews themselves
I pray and cry
Only while he is a Jew gets his home more than me

In short, we are two employees working in a company
I work better than this person and get a lower salary ?! hmmmm o_O


The message was directed to the children of Israel to encourage them to worship and do good things, but that does not mean that everyone is excluded
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I DO believe in evolution

Why? If you believe in God why can you not take him at his word? Does he lie? Is there some reason why he cannot created the universe and all life on earth just as he said he did? Why would he need evolution?

the garden event occurred to change the mind and body of ONE individual
that person was cloned
You mean Adam? What change of mind and body is this? What were the results of this 'change'?

the couple were then released into the environment

You mean like animals released into a habitat? o_O For what purpose?

they were not the first to walk this earth

And where will I find all these other folk mentioned in scripture? And why is it that Jesus died for the sin of Adam if others had lived before him...where are they? :shrug:

I find your line of reasoning very obscure most of the time....are there others who believe as you do, or are you a 'lone ranger' like so many others who interpret scripture for themselves?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I will attach some verses from the god speak in Qur'an to illustrate the misunderstanding of the Jews
My brother, I don't want to attack but let's study and understand each other
(Cultural exchange)
Peace

Thank you for the offer of a cultural exchange, but really, the questions I asked you would be better answered in your own words. I was not attacking your beliefs but just asking for your explanations.
(I am not a brother BTW :oops:)

2:111
And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful."

4:22 to 126
But the ones who believe and do righteous deeds - We will admit them to gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever. [It is] the promise of Allah, [which is] truth, and who is more truthful than Allah in statement.

Paradise is not [obtained] by your wishful thinking nor by that of the People of the Scripture. Whoever does a wrong will be recompensed for it, and he will not find besides Allah a protector or a helper.

And whoever does righteous deeds, whether male or female, while being a believer - those will enter Paradise and will not be wronged, [even as much as] the speck on a date seed.

And who is better in religion than one who submits himself to Allah while being a doer of good and follows the religion of Abraham, inclining toward truth? And Allah took Abraham as an intimate friend.

And to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And ever is Allah, of all things, encompassing.

Where is paradise? What makes you believe that it is heaven, when the first paradise was here on earth? Does God not finish what he starts? Did he not intend for the humans to extend the borders of their paradise to the ends of the earth? Why does God want humans in heaven when he put us here on earth?


5:18
But the Jews and the Christians say, "We are the children of Allah and His beloved." Say, "Then why does He punish you for your sins?" Rather, you are human beings from among those He has created. He forgives whom He wills, and He punishes whom He wills. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them, and to Him is the [final] destination.

9:72

Allah has promised the believing men and believing women gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they abide eternally, and pleasant dwellings in gardens of perpetual residence; but approval from Allah is greater. It is that which is the great attainment.

Are these "gardens and rivers" in heaven? Is the human race designed to live in heaven or on earth? Why do people imagine heaven with the features of an earthly paradise? :shrug:


Are Jews and Christians eliminated from paradise...and if so by what criteria does God prevent them from entering? Is this saying that God will punish all, including Muslims for their willful sins?

Can you tell me what "believing men and believing women" means in these verses? How would you define "believing"?

3:67 Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a Monotheist, a Muslim. And he was not of the Polytheists.
68 The people most deserving of Abraham are those who followed him, and this prophet, and those who believe. God is the Guardian of the believers.


Abraham (Abram) was the first man in scripture to be called a "Hebrew" so how could he be a Muslim?

"And the fugitive came and he told Abram the Hebrew, and he was living in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, the brother of Eshkol and the brother of Aner, who were Abram's confederates." (Genesis 14:13 Tanach)

Who is Abraham's 'prophet' mentioned here?

69 A party of the People of the Book would love to lead you astray, but they only lead themselves astray, and they do not realize it.

70 O People of the Book! Why do you reject the revelations of God, even as you witness?

71 O People of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with falsehood, and knowingly conceal the truth?

72 Some of the People of the Book say, “Believe in what was revealed to the believers at the beginning of the day, and reject it at its end, so that they may return.”

73 And trust none except those who follow your religion.” Say, “Guidance is God’s guidance. If someone is given the like of what you were given, or they argue with you before your Lord, say, “All grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills.” God is Bounteous and Knowing.

74 He specifies His mercy for whomever He wills. God is Possessor of Sublime Grace.

75 Among the People of the Book is he, who, if you entrust him with a heap of gold, he will give it back to you. And among them is he, who, if you entrust him with a single coin, he will not give it back to you, unless you keep after him. That is because they say, “We are under no obligation towards the gentiles.” They tell lies about God, and they know it.

76 Indeed, whoever fulfills his commitments and maintains piety—God loves the pious.
57: 26 We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and the Scripture. Some of them are guided, but many of them are sinners.


Are the "people of the Book", Jews, according to these statements? Who is "WE" who sent the prophets to establish their line?


27 Then We sent in their wake Our messengers, and followed up with Jesus son of Mary, and We gave him the Gospel, and instilled in the hearts of those who followed him compassion and mercy. But as for the monasticism which they invented—We did not ordain it for them—only to seek God’s approval. But they did not observe it with its due observance. So We gave those of them who believed their reward, but many of them are sinful.

28 O you who believe! Fear God, and believe in His Messenger: He will give you a double portion of His mercy, and will give you a light by which you walk, and will forgive you. God is Forgiving and Merciful.


29 That the People of the Book may know that they have no power whatsoever over God’s grace, and that all grace is in God’s hand; He gives it to whomever He wills. God is Possessor of Great Grace.

So Jesus is a messenger of Allah, according to Muslims? This is odd considering that Jesus was Jewish and all the prophesies written about his lineage and his mission in the Hebrew scriptures, were fulfilled in his birth, his life and his death. He claimed to be "the son of God" and yet Muslims deny this...is that correct?


Where does Mohammad fit into this picture? According to our scripture, Jesus is the last prophet that God sent. There was no need for any others.

finely this verse
Indeed, those who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise until a camel enters into the eye of a needle. And thus do We recompense the criminals.

So, these are the ones who deny the verses of the Qur'an....they will not enter heaven?
Again, who is "WE" in your verses?

i hope that understand little my opinions

It doesn't really answer my questions as I too am trying to understand your beliefs. The Qur'an is not my scripture so it does little to help me understand how Islam fits in with the Jewish religion as well as with the Christians? Jews and Muslims have long been enemies....Jews and Christians are also at odds and have been for thousands of years....so how does it all work? How does Islam claim to be the only true faith when the clear indication from scripture is that the blessing of Yahweh was to come through Abraham, through Isaac and Jacob.....not Ishmael.

Exodus 2:24...."God heard their cry, and God remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob." Ishmael is not mentioned in this covenant.

I have a completely different understanding of the big picture as it pertains to humans and their relationship with God. I see all the "Abrahamic" religions as alienated as they can be from one another, but I also see them all as alienated from God by their actions......so my question is....Is Allah, Yahweh?

Please help me to understand. There are very few Muslims where I live, so I do not have much interaction with them.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Thank you for the offer of a cultural exchange, but really, the questions I asked you would be better answered in your own words. I was not attacking your beliefs but just asking for your explanations.
(I am not a brother BTW :oops:)



Where is paradise? What makes you believe that it is heaven, when the first paradise was here on earth? Does God not finish what he starts? Did he not intend for the humans to extend the borders of their paradise to the ends of the earth? Why does God want humans in heaven when he put us here on earth?




Are these "gardens and rivers" in heaven? Is the human race designed to live in heaven or on earth? Why do people imagine heaven with the features of an earthly paradise? :shrug:


Are Jews and Christians eliminated from paradise...and if so by what criteria does God prevent them from entering? Is this saying that God will punish all, including Muslims for their willful sins?

Can you tell me what "believing men and believing women" means in these verses? How would you define "believing"?



Abraham (Abram) was the first man in scripture to be called a "Hebrew" so how could he be a Muslim?

"And the fugitive came and he told Abram the Hebrew, and he was living in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, the brother of Eshkol and the brother of Aner, who were Abram's confederates." (Genesis 14:13 Tanach)

Who is Abraham's 'prophet' mentioned here?



Are the "people of the Book", Jews, according to these statements? Who is "WE" who sent the prophets to establish their line?




So Jesus is a messenger of Allah, according to Muslims? This is odd considering that Jesus was Jewish and all the prophesies written about his lineage and his mission in the Hebrew scriptures, were fulfilled in his birth, his life and his death. He claimed to be "the son of God" and yet Muslims deny this...is that correct?


Where does Mohammad fit into this picture? According to our scripture, Jesus is the last prophet that God sent. There was no need for any others.



So, these are the ones who deny the verses of the Qur'an....they will not enter heaven?
Again, who is "WE" in your verses?



It doesn't really answer my questions as I too am trying to understand your beliefs. The Qur'an is not my scripture so it does little to help me understand how Islam fits in with the Jewish religion as well as with the Christians? Jews and Muslims have long been enemies....Jews and Christians are also at odds and have been for thousands of years....so how does it all work? How does Islam claim to be the only true faith when the clear indication from scripture is that the blessing of Yahweh was to come through Abraham, through Isaac and Jacob.....not Ishmael.

Exodus 2:24...."God heard their cry, and God remembered His covenant with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob." Ishmael is not mentioned in this covenant.

I have a completely different understanding of the big picture as it pertains to humans and their relationship with God. I see all the "Abrahamic" religions as alienated as they can be from one another, but I also see them all as alienated from God by their actions......so my question is....Is Allah, Yahweh?

Please help me to understand. There are very few Muslims where I live, so I do not have much interaction with them.

SISTER :oops:
READ THIS
7: 40 Those who reject Our revelations and are too arrogant to uphold them—the doors of Heaven will not be opened for them, nor will they enter Paradise, until the camel passes through the eye of the needle. Thus We repay the guilty.

CLEARLY MUSLIMS WILL ENTER HEAVEN
 
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