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Does god prefer to inhabit a body, wherever he is

1213

Well-Known Member
... In not being found after being sought, this shows that the presence he could have is something he chooses to limit at times. A logical place for a deity to limit its presence might be a body, therefore that's why this question is asked

Bible tells God is spirit and love.

God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.
John 4:24

He who doesn't love doesn't know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

It seems to me that many people don’t see Him, even if He is not hiding in some body. :)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So actually, the bible says in Proverbs 1:28 that “Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently, but they will not find me."

Who was he talking to when he said that? Read Proverbs 1:22-33 for the answer.

And in Deuteronomy 32:20 that "I will hide my face from them." This implies that the biblical god, at least, does seek that quiet room that I described. In not being found after being sought, this shows that the presence he could have is something he chooses to limit at times.

Read the whole passage....again, who is he talking to? This implies that God will turn away from those who turn away from him. The thing is, he will never leave us first. He will respond to our actions towards him. He is not some all-forgiving sob who falls for crocodile tears, but he is not a tyrannical dictator either. His requirements are not unreasonable and he is our Creator....if he cannot have expectations about us...who can?

A logical place for a deity to limit its presence might be a body, therefore that's why this question is asked

God is a spirit. He has a spiritual body and he has no need or desire to manifest himself as anything other than who and what he is....the Sovereign Ruler of all creation. Humans who withdraw from God by their disobedience are given every opportunity to reconcile with him, but they chose not to.....humans are still choosing not to obey his directives. So if humans turn away from God, he will turn away from them....how is that not obvious? His actions in the past have indicated that he gives all the opportunity to get to know him....but they just don't want to. What choice does he have then but to respond in the way he always has. Why do we never learn?
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Who was he talking to when he said that? Read Proverbs 1:22-33 for the answer.

Doesn't really matter in the context of this discussion.

Read the whole passage....again, who is he talking to? This implies that God will turn away from those who turn away from him.

Not really talking about who he's talking to, but about the description of his possible physical qualities.

God is a spirit. He has a spiritual body and he has no need or desire to manifest himself as anything other than who and what he is

and what's the nature of that body
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Doesn't really matter in the context of this discussion.

Not really talking about who he's talking to, but about the description of his possible physical qualities.

Context is everything in the Bible. You can make it say anything you like when you pluck words out of context.

and what's the nature of that body

Mere humans do not have the ability to comprehend “what” God is....he simply tells us that he is a “spirit”.....so all we can do is understand that the Creator is not a material Being, but who possesses power and ability to create matter. He likens himself to a potter, and we are the clay.

He tells us much about ”who” he is...and for now, I believe that is all we need to know.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Context is everything in the Bible. You can make it say anything you like when you pluck words out of context.

So, would you disagree that multiple things can be read out of a passage, or do holy passages not carry that kind of multi-dimensional iridescence that you might expect from a holy book? If the passages don't shine light in all directions, then I think that just means people with continue to argue with what the bible passages mean. Maybe this is why I take more to something like the Tao Te Ching or something. Come to think of it, that's a good thread question: how multidimensional are the bible passages?

Mere humans do not have the ability to comprehend “what” God is....he simply tells us that he is a “spirit”.....so all we can do is understand that the Creator is not a material Being, but who possesses power and ability to create matter. He likens himself to a potter, and we are the clay.

So what does that mean, does it that mean God regards us as tools or decorations, or little idols that he molds? Getting a little off topic
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So, would you disagree that multiple things can be read out of a passage, or do holy passages not carry that kind of multi-dimensional iridescence that you might expect from a holy book?

I think it depends entirely on who your teachers are. We all have those who influence our thinking on these things.
I see the Bible as one story from Genesis to Revelation. What happened in the beginning is addressed in the middle so that the foretold end will come about, just as God said it would. Everything the Bible has foretold is right on schedule.

From my studies of the Bible over several decades, the story is crystal clear in my mind. I know what happened to land us all in a life with troubles we didn't ask for, and we often find difficult to deal with. I also know why God took the tack that he did in solving the issues that arose in the beginning, with long term benefits clearly in view. I have no need of "multi-dimensional iridescence" (whatever that means)

Most people haven't got a clue what the Bible teaches and that includes the clergy for the most part. They know their theology but sadly, they don't know their Bible.

I see them as a bit like doctors in today's world....they go to medical schools funded by drug companies and get taught to give their patients endless boxes of pills that have never made them well. All they do is address symptoms and try to make people feel better, giving them the illusion that they are receiving all that is available to treat their ills. That is simply not true. They rarely get to the bottom of what has caused the trouble so it never gets fixed....meanwhile the drug companies and the doctors have customers for life (and large bank accounts) while their patients don't even realize that they have treatments (often very expensive ones) that will never cure them. No money in cures you see.

"Thou shalt make money" is the 11th Commandment for the church system. I used to put my money in the plate as it was passed around thinking that it would be used for the benefit of others, but it seems that the only one who benefited was the minister. He got a house, a car and all his bills paid....I never did see him do anything good with the money that was put in every Sunday. And if you missed a payment they came to your house and asked for it.

If they spent as much time studying their Bible as they do their set theologies, there might not be as much misinterpretation as currently divides most of Christendom IMO.

If the passages don't shine light in all directions, then I think that just means people with continue to argue with what the bible passages mean. Maybe this is why I take more to something like the Tao Te Ching or something. Come to think of it, that's a good thread question: how multidimensional are the bible passages?

To my mind the Bible is a book that requires God's spirit to get the sense of it. The passages are not ambiguous in the slightest if God directs your thinking. He will not direct the thinking of those who want to put words in his mouth or who want to impute motives to him that he does not have. The Bible's message is not complicated, but you'd never know that if you take Christendom's word for any of it. You don't need a degree in theology to serve the God of the Bible....it can actually be a hindrance.

So what does that mean, does it that mean God regards us as tools or decorations, or little idols that he molds? Getting a little off topic

God wants us to be moldable and teachable. The Potter knows what he wants the clay to be....the clay does not get to dictate to the Potter. That's all. Jesus said we had to be like young children in our approach to God....innocent, eager to learn, not argumentative or full of our own opinions. We need to listen to him and follow his commands because they are all for our benefit. It means trusting in his judgment more than our own. If we all just did that, the world would not be such a complicated place to live.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
When you think about it, being everywhere would get kind of annoying. And many of the traditional god concepts seem like they can get aggravated somewhat easily. If they limited themselves to the boundaries of a body, they could have a much greater level of peace. They wouldn't have inhabit every corner of the planet, listening to every thought, or get dizzy watching all the galaxies spin round. Now I don't know what they'd stand on up there in heaven, or if they would need to breath something other than space, but if they had a body to live in, they could spend their time in a quiet room with a desk and some books.

A body is a limitation. Emotions are chemicals effecting the body, another limitation. By definition God has neither.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
A body is a limitation. Emotions are chemicals effecting the body, another limitation. By definition God has neither.

He must have some kind of limitation because there are things he is not, or does not seem to be. It doesn't occupy some part of your body, there is a boundary somewhere there between you at it. The bible and probably other works describe god as often being angry etc. so that seems like it's emotive.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
The passages are not ambiguous in the slightest if God directs your thinking.

What I think would be better, is if they were actually multi-dimensional or multi-faceted. In arguing that passages represent minor details in some grand scheme, that's why Christianity has splintered into a million pieces over the last thousand years. People are never going to agree on what it is says if you argue that it's like that, and the thing will just have to deteriorate slowly over the next thousand years.

Anyway this is off topic, sorry forum.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What I think would be better, is if they were actually multi-dimensional or multi-faceted. In arguing that passages represent minor details in some grand scheme, that's why Christianity has splintered into a million pieces over the last thousand years. People are never going to agree on what it is says if you argue that it's like that, and the thing will just have to deteriorate slowly over the next thousand years.

Actually, what the Bible is designed to do, is to separate people. Since it was first written, men have wanted to do things their way rather than adhere to God’s way. When his nation strayed off the path that he set for them, he reigned them in often through the stern counsel of a prophet.....but if they refused to be corrected, he punished them to show them that it was “his way or the highway”.....Because he is God, he has the right to do that. God has only one truth, not many versions of it, so there was no room for multi-directional applications.
Every instance of his people straying off course, was a lesson in obedience....so, when they did things God’s way, they prospered and when they did things their way, it all went belly up. The trouble with humans is that they never learn from past mistakes so they are doomed to repeat them.

Each generation should learn from the last, but sadly they don’t ever seem to do that. That means that each generation gets virtually the same test.....just in a different time period.

The time period that we are in now, I believe is the last one.....why do I say that? Because at no other time in human history have we had the ability to create our own extinction. If man keeps going the way he has in the last half a century, we will have no planet able to support life.
Why do you think that there is so much interest in space travel? :D

Anyway this is off topic, sorry forum.

LOL....it’s your thread so it can go in any direction you want it to. :p
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Each generation should learn from the last, but sadly they don’t ever seem to do that. That means that each generation gets virtually the same test.....just in a different time period.

The time period that we are in now, I believe is the last one.....why do I say that? Because at no other time in human history have we had the ability to create our own extinction.

what a bummer... I mean science is a bummer, but bible religions leave no way out
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
what a bummer... I mean science is a bummer, but bible religions leave no way out

Well.....don’t look now, but science appears to be leaving us no way out. Who is putting up their hand and actively doing something about climate change? A young girl alerts the world that the youth are sick to death of nations continuing their poisonous emissions, only concentrating on their bottom line whilst the planet is groaning under the weight of man’s selfishness. She was widely criticised. But when David Attenborough says exactly the same thing the world goes silent....go figure. :shrug:

God is like our Landlord....if we destroy his property, we can rightly expect to get evicted! Why would he put up with greedy humans ruining his handiwork? At least God will preserve the planet, and those who respect his sovereignty over it will get to continue living on it.
We get a second chance to get it right. What chance does science give us? o_O
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
Well, Jesus always referred to His Father as being "in Heaven." Never, ever, ever did He refer to Him as being "everywhere."

Not true.

Christians are referred to as part of a vine. Repeatedly. If you look at any vine, you will notice extreme interconnectedness. He also talks about "I and the Father are One" which would be a heresy if it were just him, part of why he probably got crucified. But if he were not just talking about himself, this would not be heretical at all. You see, the Jews themselves believed God at least used to be part of everything, because they have some shattered shards (I think at weddings) and they also say "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is One."

And it is clear he is not just talking about himself. "Whenever two or three are gathered together, thou will be in the midst of them" and "whatever you did to the least of these, you did to me." God is part of everything and especially everyone .

And lest we think that we are imagining things, the letters (never clear which are from Peter and which from Paul) refer to the Church as One Body. And they talk of the Body of Christ, and how each part has a role.

When we look at other religions, and their definition of Heaven and Earth, Earth is not as much a place as it is to be distinct, split into parts (Hell btw, is regarded as an extreme of separation from God, which is why despite all claims to the contrary, the Bible makes it clear that fire and brimstone notions of Hell, and possibly Hell itself are unbiblical) yet connected to the whole, while to be in Heaven is to be united with God. Viewing Heaven as a place is probably a bad start. One should view Heaven as a marriage, and Hell as a breakup.
The reason we should see Hell as not real, is because this is an unrealistic idea of life. That you broke up with your bf, now life is all over and has always sucked. I had some suicidal girl that I was on Discord talking (without success) trying to convince that no in fact, life is okay. But she was in the closest approximation of Hell that I can think of, a lie where you can't see the good times of your life, you only see separation. When you realize that you can start over, this falls apart.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Not true.

Christians are referred to as part of a vine. Repeatedly. If you look at any vine, you will notice extreme interconnectedness. He also talks about "I and the Father are One" which would be a heresy if it were just him, part of why he probably got crucified. But if he were not just talking about himself, this would not be heretical at all. You see, the Jews themselves believed God at least used to be part of everything, because they have some shattered shards (I think at weddings) and they also say "Hear oh Israel, the Lord your God is One."

And it is clear he is not just talking about himself. "Whenever two or three are gathered together, thou will be in the midst of them" and "whatever you did to the least of these, you did to me." God is part of everything and especially everyone .

And lest we think that we are imagining things, the letters (never clear which are from Peter and which from Paul) refer to the Church as One Body. And they talk of the Body of Christ, and how each part has a role.

When we look at other religions, and their definition of Heaven and Earth, Earth is not as much a place as it is to be distinct, split into parts (Hell btw, is regarded as an extreme of separation from God, which is why despite all claims to the contrary, the Bible makes it clear that fire and brimstone notions of Hell, and possibly Hell itself are unbiblical) yet connected to the whole, while to be in Heaven is to be united with God. Viewing Heaven as a place is probably a bad start. One should view Heaven as a marriage, and Hell as a breakup.
The reason we should see Hell as not real, is because this is an unrealistic idea of life. That you broke up with your bf, now life is all over and has always sucked. I had some suicidal girl that I was on Discord talking (without success) trying to convince that no in fact, life is okay. But she was in the closest approximation of Hell that I can think of, a lie where you can't see the good times of your life, you only see separation. When you realize that you can start over, this falls apart.
You're talking about a metaphorical oneness. I'm not.
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
What chance does science give us? o_O

I think science at least gives us some narrow hope, as a compass. (though it's not the only tool in the tool-kit, but an important one) I think we all know, using intuition and our senses, what good living and good health looks and feels like. The more we understand our bodies, the longer we can live, the better we can feel throughout our lives. The more we understand ecology, the more potential we might have in managing it or sustainably using it as a resource. The bible essentially seems to want you to forget all that, we're all headed to 'end times' whether we like it or not. Science says we only have a high probability of going there, if we don't use our brains.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
He must have some kind of limitation because there are things he is not, or does not seem to be. It doesn't occupy some part of your body, there is a boundary somewhere there between you at it. The bible and probably other works describe god as often being angry etc. so that seems like it's emotive.

The text use emotions as the iron/bronze age primitives didn't know how emotions actually occur.

A body is a major limitation thus not God.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I'm not sure I know the difference between Heaven and heaven. I believe that God's influence and power is everywhere, but I also believe that He resides in His Kingdom, which is not of this earth.

I believe Heaven is a place without substance and outside of time.

I believe heaven is any space between material although most often it refers to the space between planets. Paul talks about more than one heaven.

I believe you are mistaken. His Kingdom is everywhere his subjects are and many are on this earth.

i believe He is in a place where He is able to prepare a place for us and that is not on this earth. However I believe He is King no matter where He is but the Biblical references to a physical Kingdom is upon this earth but not as we know it today.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I find it so interesting how people speak as if having a body would somehow limit God. Yet in the same breath, they'll insist that Jesus Christ (whom they also say is "God") was not limited in the slightest by having a body. I mean, if Jesus could command a storm to cease, He was clearly omnipotent, even with a body. So why is the idea that the Father also has one such an impossible concept for people to grasp?

I believe the scripture (a statement by Jesus) is that God is a Spirit. There is no scripture that says he has a body only that He is in the body of Jesus. The whole Father concept is that of God outside any body.
 
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