"Where Did Life Come From?" A 13 Minute Primer For Creationists

Jose Fly · Oct 10, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
It’s not so black-and-white as that! There are quite a few different things that can make up a person’s belief system....a big part of that, is how they view other people, with care or disdain.

Understood. But since you don't personally know the world's earth and life scientists, your belief in how much they are under Satanic influence is mostly determined by how their work lines up with what you believe to be God's Word.

To a major degree, but also, again, how they deal with others... if they are willing to be forgiving, patient, merciful, prone to anger, etc., if they’re honest, or lazy, or whatever: their behavior.

Jehovah looks at the heart, not so much beliefs.

But the Scriptures are (Jehovah is) clear: “the Devil....is misleading the entire inhabited Earth”! Revelation 12 7-9,12

It won’t last forever.

And that is not how skeptics operate. Skepticism is not "I have this set of beliefs, and anything that goes against those beliefs must be the result of magic/Satanic influence". In fact, that's pretty much the polar opposite of skepticism.

tas8831 · Oct 10, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
Especially through religion....one prime example, is thinking that by killing others, you can gain God's approval & get "72 virgins."

Numbers 31
15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them.
16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people.
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man,
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Sick!

gnostic · Oct 24, 2019

@Hockeycowboy

Hockeycowboy said:
I tend to go with the timeline as laid out in the LXX, of a Flood date around 3220 BCE.

First. I wanted to ask you which translation do you read and use the most?

Or which Bible (translation) does your church officially use?

Second:

The only (mostly complete) extant Septuagint manuscripts are the Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Vaticanus. The datings of Genesis genealogy, differed slightly, thereby giving different dates to when the Flood occurred.

So, which manuscript is the correct one?

gnostic · Oct 27, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
You know, @Jose Fly ,
in a way, you could say Jehovah's people are the most profound of skeptics!

Skeptics would follow where the evidence lead them, even if it should disagree with any of their long-held beliefs or teachings.

JW followers have the tendencies to ignore any evidence, especially evidence relating to natural science, because the evidence clashed with JW teachings. That not the signs of JW being skeptics.

gnostic · Oct 27, 2019

Hockeycowboy said:
It supports the description found @ Psalms 104:8-9, that “the valleys fell.” And from the perspective of an observer on the ground, this would make it seem ‘the mountains were rising.’

If you bother to read the whole chapter, none of the verses related to Noah’s Flood, and neither does verses 8-9.

If a flood is drastic enough to change the sea level, like Genesis claim that it covered the highest mountains, it is highly improbable in a matter of six months that the sea level would return the level prior to the flood.

Where did all the water come from? Where did all the water go?

The Genesis Flood not only defy natural reality, you are dreaming that it is possible.

Evangelicalhumanist · Oct 27, 2019

Deeje said:
Goodness...its "Where's Wally" impersonating a scientist.....!

What was that? Science for 7 year olds? It might convince a 7 year old....but adults might notice a repeat of some words in this video that kids probably wouldn't....its what turns science fact into science fiction. There is a great dependency on the words "could have" and "might have" all the way through this bit of nonsense.

God "might have" or "could have" created life too......there is just as much real evidence.

Nice try....

Yes, but you didn't add anything to tilt the argument to your side, did you?

YoursTrue · Oct 27, 2019

gnostic said:
If you bother to read the whole chapter, none of the verses related to Noah’s Flood, and neither does verses 8-9.

If a flood is drastic enough to change the sea level, like Genesis claim that it covered the highest mountains, it is highly improbable in a matter of six months that the sea level would return the level prior to the flood.

Where did all the water come from? Where did all the water go?

The Genesis Flood not only defy natural reality, you are dreaming that it is possible.

Actually, there are clouds above which gather moisture and drop moisture. Then there are the waters in the lakes and oceans, and underground.

YoursTrue · Oct 27, 2019

gnostic said:
@Hockeycowboy

First. I wanted to ask you which translation do you read and use the most?

Or which Bible (translation) does your church officially use?

Second:

The only (mostly complete) extant Septuagint manuscripts are the Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Vaticanus. The datings of Genesis genealogy, differed slightly, thereby giving different dates to when the Flood occurred.

So, which manuscript is the correct one?

As I'm reading a little about the differences in translations, yes, it seems that there were differences in the translations and reviews of translations. Copying from Hebrew to Greek and then going back to Hebrew can make a difference, especially when there are so few early manuscripts available to explore and the history of these copies and translations. But the overall picture of what happened is very similar.

Subduction Zone · Oct 27, 2019

YoursTrue said:
Actually, there are clouds above which gather moisture and drop moisture. Then there are the waters in the lakes and oceans, and underground.

Clouds cannot hold that much in the way of water. A few inches at most and you need thousands of vertical feet of water for that myth.

And that myth fails badly . Every science shows that it did not happen. Sometimes several times.

We Never Know · Oct 27, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Clouds cannot hold that much in the way of water. A few inches at most and you need thousands of vertical feet of water for that myth.

And that myth fails badly . Every science shows that it did not happen. Sometimes several times.

For the ultimate 1-minute deluge, we head east to the state of Maryland. In just 60 seconds, 1.23 inches of rain fell in Unionville, Maryland, on July 4, 1956.

The world record is 71.8 inches (almost 6 feet) at Foc-Foc, Réunion Island, in the South Indian Ocean, on Jan. 7-8, 1966.

It's nothing for a rain storm to drop 3-6 inches of rain. And yes it can rain a lot in a minute or a day but nothing has ever been recorded as needed for the great flood.

Subduction Zone · Oct 27, 2019

We Never Know said:
For the ultimate 1-minute deluge, we head east to the state of Maryland. In just 60 seconds, 1.23 inches of rain fell in Unionville, Maryland, on July 4, 1956.

The world record is 71.8 inches (almost 6 feet) at Foc-Foc, Réunion Island, in the South Indian Ocean, on Jan. 7-8, 1966.

It's nothing for a rain storm to drop 3-6 inches of rain. And yes it can rain a lot in a minute or a day but nothing has ever been recorded as needed for the great flood.

Don't conflate local rainfallls with average amount of water in the atmosphere. There are local effects that can draw in air from surrounding sources and keep raining. I grossly overestimated how much water the atmosphere holds. On average only about 1 inch:

The Atmosphere and the Water Cycle

There are an estimated 3,094 cubic miles of water in the atmosphere. Sounds like a lot. Divide it by the surface area of the Earth.

We Never Know · Oct 28, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Don't conflate local rainfallls with average amount of water in the atmosphere. There are local effects that can draw in air from surrounding sources and keep raining. I grossly overestimated how much water the atmosphere holds. On average only about 1 inch:

The Atmosphere and the Water Cycle

There are an estimated 3,094 cubic miles of water in the atmosphere. Sounds like a lot. Divide it by the surface area of the Earth.

A cubic kilometer of water equals about 264 billion gallons (999 billion liters). About 3,100 mi^3 (12,900 km^3) of water, mostly in the form of water vapor, is in the atmosphere at any one time. If it all fell as precipitation at once, the Earth would be covered with only about 1 inch of water.
How Much Water is There on Earth?

Subduction Zone · Oct 28, 2019

We Never Know said:
A cubic kilometer of water equals about 264 billion gallons (999 billion liters). About 3,100 mi^3 (12,900 km^3) of water, mostly in the form of water vapor, is in the atmosphere at any one time. If it all fell as precipitation at once, the Earth would be covered with only about 1 inch of water.
How Much Water is There on Earth?

There you go. The extreme amount of rain in one spot that you posted earlier tells us very little about the amount of water that the atmosphere can hold.

YoursTrue · Oct 28, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Clouds cannot hold that much in the way of water. A few inches at most and you need thousands of vertical feet of water for that myth.

And that myth fails badly . Every science shows that it did not happen. Sometimes several times.

There was water on the ground before that. And when it rains in some areas, there is flooding, people have to be rescued. The Bible speaks of a waters above and on the earth as well.

YoursTrue · Oct 28, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
There you go. The extreme amount of rain in one spot that you posted earlier tells us very little about the amount of water that the atmosphere can hold.

The Bible speaks of the floodgates of the heavens were opened. Question for you: how much water can the earth 'hold,' since ice is melting rapidly in the polar regions? Environmentalists are just a tad concerned about flooding in coastal cities after a while.

YoursTrue · Oct 28, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Clouds cannot hold that much in the way of water. A few inches at most and you need thousands of vertical feet of water for that myth.

And that myth fails badly . Every science shows that it did not happen. Sometimes several times.

The topography of the earth changes, doesn't it? I mean look at which is called the "ice age."

Subduction Zone · Oct 28, 2019

YoursTrue said:
There was water on the ground before that. And when it rains in some areas, there is flooding, people have to be rescued. The Bible speaks of a waters above and on the earth as well.

Yes, the Bible also has a folk tale about a giant boat. The problem with reducing the flood to that point that it could happen one makes the giant boat superfluous. A small local flood would not have done the job of the myth. And scientists probably have found the flood that inspired the myth. Also if you were a student of the Bible you would know that the myth came from the Babylonian Captivity. Have you ever heard of the Epic of Gilgamesh? Here is a link to an article on the flood that may have inspired the tale:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education

Subduction Zone · Oct 28, 2019

YoursTrue said:
The topography of the earth changes, doesn't it? I mean look at which is called the "ice age."

Yes, and we understand how that happens. Why bring up this red herring?

Subduction Zone · Oct 28, 2019

YoursTrue said:
The Bible speaks of the floodgates of the heavens were opened. Question for you: how much water can the earth 'hold,' since ice is melting rapidly in the polar regions? Environmentalists are just a tad concerned about flooding in coastal cities after a while.

Not enough to cover the Earth. And you are forgetting the time element. That ice has been there for hundred of thousands to millions of years.

Hockeycowboy · Oct 28, 2019

gnostic said:
@Hockeycowboy

First. I wanted to ask you which translation do you read and use the most?

Or which Bible (translation) does your church officially use?

Second:

The only (mostly complete) extant Septuagint manuscripts are the Codex Alexandrinus and Codex Vaticanus. The datings of Genesis genealogy, differed slightly, thereby giving different dates to when the Flood occurred.

So, which manuscript is the correct one?

The one which aligns with steady 14C, back to about 5,000 yrs.ago....

“much of the 14C dating of things carries us back 5,000 years, and then we see huge jumps (to 60,000 years or more). Could this be due to the fact that there was much less cosmic radiation hitting the earth prior to the great Downpour (flood) spoken of in Genesis Chapter 6? For if our earth had once been protected from such radiation by huge quantities of stratospheric ice crystals (as many have suggested) which fell to the earth as a flood, then the radiocarbon and luminescence dating clocks are unreliable and are indicating much older dates for materials than may actually be true.”

http://www.2001translation.com/Authenticity.htm#_14

"Where Did Life Come From?" A 13 Minute Primer For Creationists

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