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What was Jewish about Jesus?

sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Desert Snake said:
Great, called Jesus of Nazareth, and it makes sense. However, Jesus was of Juda, meaning there is tribal and religious affiliation with Juda, [presumably.

It does make sense as noted, I interpret 'name of people, and holy city' as

• Judah
• Yehudi

•••
No one has disagreed with that, so either everyone agrees, or, they can't think of a better explanation.
Click to expand...

In Arabic Yehudi just means Jew. What are you driving at?

The Sanhedren and Pharisees certainly didn't like Jesus.. They were penurious and Jerusalem was hardscrabble, arid and stony..

At this point there is serious doubt that a United Kingdom ever existed at all.

Read Devers and Israel Finkelstein.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
lewisnotmiller said:
I'm no theologian, but am interested and reasonably well read regarding classical history.
Why do you say this?
Click to expand...

From what I've read, we can't say anything for certain. I don't even know what "Jewish" means really. Is it a nationality, ancestral lineage, ethnicity? In many senses, Calling Jesus a Jew, doesn't really, IMO, tell us anything. I'm an American, but that doesn't really say anything about my ancestry.

Also, the Bible says Jesus was from Galilee. At the Jesus the was Judea, Samaria and Galilee. Galilee was a mixed population. About a century before Jesus everyone in the area was forced into Judaism. So there is no necessary relationship to the Tribe of Judah other than Judaism was the religion practiced in Galilee at the time.

Culturally however Jesus is accepted as a Jew, however no real way to falsify/test his lineage so it's as good a story as any.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Nakosis said:
From what I've read, we can't say anything for certain. I don't even know what "Jewish" means really. Is it a nationality, ancestral lineage, ethnicity? In many senses, Calling Jesus a Jew, doesn't really, IMO, tell us anything. I'm an American, but that doesn't really say anything about my ancestry.

Also, the Bible says Jesus was from Galilee. At the Jesus the was Judea, Samaria and Galilee. Galilee was a mixed population. About a century before Jesus everyone in the area was forced into Judaism. So there is no necessary relationship to the Tribe of Judah other than Judaism was the religion practiced in Galilee at the time.

Culturally however Jesus is accepted as a Jew, however no real way to falsify/test his lineage so it's as good a story as any.
Click to expand...

Well, to make matters more confusing there were TWO Bethlehems.. One in Judea and one in Galilee.

Two-Bethlehems--DM2--for-in-the-article.jpg
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
Desert Snake said:
Great, called Jesus of Nazareth, and it makes sense. However, Jesus was of Juda, meaning there is tribal and religious affiliation with Juda, [presumably.

It does make sense as noted, I interpret 'name of people, and holy city' as

• Judah
• Yehudi

•••
No one has disagreed with that, so either everyone agrees, or, they can't think of a better explanation.
Click to expand...
Or choice D. So confused by what you are claiming that trying to inject any other opinion seems like a waste of time.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
sooda said:
Well, to make matters more confusing there were TWO Bethlehems.. One in Judea and one in Galilee.

Two-Bethlehems--DM2--for-in-the-article.jpg
Click to expand...


I've read that they aren't 100% sure that Bethlehem was Bethlehem. Just they found a place which according to their best guess was likely Bethlehem.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Nakosis said:
I've read that they aren't 100% sure that Bethlehem was Bethlehem. Just they found a place which according to their best guess was likely Bethlehem.
Click to expand...

I know.. Both were tiny. I think in the south because 80 miles is too far for a pregnant woman to walk. LOL

Problem is the gospels are so contrived that we even know if the basics are accurate.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
sooda said:
I know.. Both were tiny. I think in the south because 80 miles is too far for a pregnant woman to walk. LOL

Problem is the gospels are so contrived that we even know if the basics are accurate.
Click to expand...

I found information on this 2nd Bethlehem.
Dig Finds Evidence Of Another Bethlehem
He adds there is evidence the other Bethlehem in the West Bank, or what Israelis call Judea, was not even inhabited in the first century.

They also say it doesn't make sense that a pregnant woman would travel 80 miles on a donkey.

Part of religion is about feeling good about yourself. Doesn't matter then if folks have made the pilgrimage to the wrong Bethlehem as long as they believe they have.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
sooda said:
In Arabic Yehudi just means Jew. What are you driving at?

The Sanhedren and Pharisees certainly didn't like Jesus.. They were penurious and Jerusalem was hardscrabble, arid and stony..

At this point there is serious doubt that a United Kingdom ever existed at all.

Read Devers and Israel Finkelstein.
Click to expand...
I'm joking, because it's probably supposed to be Jerusalem.

• Yisroel [Israel
• Jerusalem

It means, if no one wants to refute that, then I'm not obligated to explain how one derives Jerusalem for the Holy City.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
No.. I don't celebrate Passover.
Click to expand...

Isn't celebrating the Passover kinda Jewish?

Jesus celebrated the Passover.

Of course the deliverance of the Passover were given new meaning by Jesus with 'This is my body broken for you' regarding the bread and 'And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood." Luke 22:20

An even more spectacular deliverance from sin with the goal of loving and enjoying God and bringing glory to God.
 
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
from that hour they sought to kill Him
Click to expand...

Jesus is often depicted in the Bible in dialogue with the Pharisees, whose views on many things, such as a final divine judgment and the resurrection of the dead, Jesus shared. Many of his teachings were quite similar on the Law to those of Hillel, for example, whose followers would scorn the Shammaites as hypocrites and legalists, as did Jesus. In Luke, Pharisees try to warn Jesus against going to Jerusalem because of a plot against his life by the followers of Herod. It is likely that the sympathy for Jesus represented by Joseph and Nicodemus would have been shared by other Pharisees as well. The Synoptic Gospels (even Matthew, whose polemic against the Pharisees is the strongest), do not have them playing a role in Jesus’ arrest or trial, only the chief priests and various “scribes and elders.”
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
pcarl said:
Jesus is often depicted in the Bible in dialogue with the Pharisees, whose views on many things, such as a final divine judgment and the resurrection of the dead, Jesus shared. Many of his teachings were quite similar on the Law to those of Hillel, for example, whose followers would scorn the Shammaites as hypocrites and legalists, as did Jesus. In Luke, Pharisees try to warn Jesus against going to Jerusalem because of a plot against his life by the followers of Herod. It is likely that the sympathy for Jesus represented by Joseph and Nicodemus would have been shared by other Pharisees as well. The Synoptic Gospels (even Matthew, whose polemic against the Pharisees is the strongest), do not have them playing a role in Jesus’ arrest or trial, only the chief priests and various “scribes and elders.”
Click to expand...
The houses of Hillel and Shammai disagreed on certain laws but those of Hillel did not "scorn" anyone as legalists or hypocrites. At least not in any actual Jewish sources.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
rosends said:
The houses of Hillel and Shammai disagreed on certain laws but those of Hillel did not "scorn" anyone as legalists or hypocrites. At least not in any actual Jewish sources.
Click to expand...

Jesus was speaking like Isiah as far as the hypocrites. He quoted 'you set aside the commandments of God for teachings of men" Perhaps he was more like 'house of Isiah'?

He did have Jewish mood from his mothers side, being born seed of the woman in the spirit of the promise to Eve that her seed would crush the head of the serpent; not to mention Psalm 91 "you will tread upon the lion and the cobra"
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
pcarl said:
only the chief priests and various “scribes and elders.”
Click to expand...
so it was the Jews that took Him to Roman law
and a Jewish crowd choosing to spare Barrabas
and a Jewish crowd to bear witness the crucifixion

I don't think the Romans cared His blood line or culture

the trial was aimed at the accusation......King of the Jews

insurrection
 
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
so it was the Jews that took Him to Roman law
Click to expand...

It is a mistake to use the term 'Jews' collectively.

Thief said:
and a Jewish crowd choosing to spare Barraba
Click to expand...

And it was a 'crowd' gathered for Passover which drew Jews from outside Jerusalem, many of whom had never heard of Jesus but possibly familiar with Barabbas, a zealot?

Thief said:
and a Jewish crowd to bear witness the crucifixion
Click to expand...

And Jews who bared witness to the Resurrection.
We need to take into consideration the situation of the church and the Jews at the time of written Gospels, a generation later.

Thief said:
the trial was aimed at the accusation......King of the Jews

insurrection
Click to expand...

Yes, Pilate, and the Jewish aristocracy sought to be rid of Jesus.
 
P

pearl

Well-Known Member
rosends said:
The houses of Hillel and Shammai disagreed on certain laws but those of Hillel did not "scorn" anyone as legalists or hypocrites. At least not in any actual Jewish sources.
Click to expand...

Understood, my only point, I think the Pharisees get an underserved bad rap, at least in popular interpretations.
 
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