Turkey Invades Syria

Nakosis · Oct 9, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
In your view, but in the lives of many, including women, many Kurdish groups are incomparably better than those around them. Instead of protecting someone who probably won't be sending us the next Taliban to attack on American soil, they stepped aside for a regime that's becoming increasingly religious and fundamentalist.

We can I think all agree ISIS or ISIL is a bad group. Is Turkey bad, Syria bad, even Iraq/Iran?

I've met decent people from Iran and Syria. I imagine a lot of decent folks in Turkey as well. Nothing against the Kurds. Wish they could find a way to all get along. Just not sure we should be taking sides.

shmogie · Oct 9, 2019

metis said:
From BBC:
Turkish troops launch Syria offensive

Thoughts?

A terrible occurrence, the result of a terrible decision.

The Turks are bombing villages and men, women and children are fleeing, more refugees.

Muslim armies, all muslim armies, bring slaughter with them. The Turks will bring it on a grand scale.

Many, many innocents are doomed.

Ouroboros · Oct 9, 2019

So let's see how tough our president can be now. Wreaking havoc on Turkey's economy.

shmogie · Oct 9, 2019

Salvador said:
Please let's agree it's time to let the well-armed and highly trained Kurdish Syrians fight their own battles without the risk of American soldiers getting killed in the cross-fire. We should wish these souls the best of luck and Godspeed.

Yep, remove their air cover and let the Turks destroy them from the air with US made aircraft.

I don´t think luck is what they need.

A gutless decision, and concession to another islamist dictator.

The short sighted isolationist doctrine has begun, and the pentagon is extremely disturbed by it.

shmogie · Oct 9, 2019

LuisDantas said:
A disaster for pretty much everyone, except _perhaps_ Erdogan's short term ambitions.

Neither Syria nor the Kurds will see reason to trust anything coming from the USA (or at least Trump) again.

Nor will many sensible people in positions of knowledge about the situation, including much of the military High Command and Congress, mind you.

Both Erdogan and ISIS will feel emboldened, and the morale of US military and of foreign allies will be put under serious risk - all the more so because it was so crapicious and unnecessary a risk.

Soon enough you Americans will realize that Trump has just sustained his pride and vanity with a blood price that can easily cost thousands of lives, including American soldiers. Without as much as a weak excuse, to boot. It is no coincidence that even Lindsey Graham and Mitch McConnell are finally feeling the need to criticize him.

The Kurds hold 10,000 ISIS prisoners, how long will they hold on to them if they are being slaughtered from the air ?

Shadow Wolf · Oct 9, 2019

Nakosis said:
Just not sure we should be taking sides.

Certain sides promote oppressive ideologies that sometimes send an attacker west (more common in Europe). Certain sides a better grasp of human rights and arent as eager to turn violent and execute those who offend their religion. We ultimately have interests there, and we probably want to try helping those who won't attack us instead of those who are turning increasingly extreme.

leov · Oct 9, 2019

columbus said:
However did Trump manage to tweet this without mentioning the Bushes or the Republicans?
Tom

For whatever reason somebody fessed up, we are living in faked world, we have been lied by our government d. and r. no difference.

We Never Know · Oct 9, 2019

shmogie said:
A terrible occurrence, the result of a terrible decision.

The Turks are bombing villages and men, women and children are fleeing, more refugees.

Muslim armies, all muslim armies, bring slaughter with them. The Turks will bring it on a grand scale.

Many, many innocents are doomed.

This could end up being nasty for many.

Kurdish official says Turkey targeting civilians

Kurdish official says Turkey targeting civilians

Iran Holds Military Drills Near Turkey, Tells It to Stop Syria Attack As Russia Accuses U.S. of 'Dangerous Game'

Iran Holds Military Drills Near Turkey, Tells It to Stop Syria Attack As Russia Accuses U.S. of 'Dangerous Game'

We Never Know · Oct 9, 2019

shmogie said:
The Kurds hold 10,000 ISIS prisoners, how long will they hold on to them if they are being slaughtered from the air ?

That's one thought that has came about. If they have to pull manpower away from the prison, they won't hold them much longer.

columbus · Oct 9, 2019

leov said:
For whatever reason somebody fessed up, we are living in faked world, we have been lied by our government d. and r. no difference.

Why would you quote my post if you aren't going to respond to anything I posted?
Tom

Nakosis · Oct 9, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
Certain sides promote oppressive ideologies that sometimes send an attacker west (more common in Europe). Certain sides a better grasp of human rights and arent as eager to turn violent and execute those who offend their religion. We ultimately have interests there, and we probably want to try helping those who won't attack us instead of those who are turning increasingly extreme.

Helping one side generally encourages the other side to want to attack us. Also, those we throw our lot in with are usually temporary useful bedfellows. No guarantee they won't see fit to dislike us at some future point.

While I'm sure there can be improvement, both Turkey and Syria grant equal rights to women.

I'm sure we have many differing interests in the ME. Just not sure in picking sides because of our interests makes us the good guys. Or, maybe the idea of there being a "good guy" in war is naive. :shrug:

Shad · Oct 9, 2019

Nakosis said:
Don't you think if we are going to have "world" cooperation that this cooperation should come through the UN.

The UN has done nothing to address issues in Syria. The UN passes useless resolutions that change nothing while patting themselves on the back. Yawn.

The issue is really in the hands of NATO. However just like the UN it has do-nothing nations. So the US is doing what it has done for decades. Act as world police as no one else has the will nor means

The UN should have the support of all member nations including the US shouldn't it?

Have you seen the General Assembly? Half those fools can not scrap the will power together to condemn Muslims nations for Human Rights abuses. Heck the GA makes some of the worst offenders chair of the HRC. Yet its like every second friday they go after Israeli because some stupid Islamist got shot. The UN is only one successful branch; humanitarian aid. The rest of the UN is useless and garbage.

Regiomontanus · Oct 9, 2019

metis said:
From BBC:
Turkish troops launch Syria offensive

Thoughts?

We have no business in Syria. It is time to wind down our Empire.

It is true we started all of this mess by invading Iraq. At some point though we have to just STOP and mind our own business. But it would seem that even my liberal friends are determined to "stand up to Putin" and keep us enmeshed in endless cycles of violence by keeping our nose in places it does not belong. Enough, IMHO.

Shad · Oct 9, 2019

Nakosis said:
Interesting that Turkey sees the Syrian Kurds as a terrorist group. Label a group as terrorists and you can justify any action against them.

That is due to Kurds in Eastern Turkey committing terrorist attacks. Even the US recognizes that group as terrorists. It is not like Turkey is innocent so do not get me wrong. Turkey is claiming the Kurds in Turkey and the Kurds in Syria have aligned or outright allied with each other. Ergo the agenda of one has become the agenda of both groups. A problem is the Syrian Kurds are sitting on the fence playing games. They are not declaring themselves a rebel faction thus destroying the narrative of ISIS containment all while setting up governments in parts of Syria they control. They are not opening talks with Assad thus demonstrating they want reintegration or some form of collation to win the war and rebuild Syria.

Look up the Kurdish Triangle. A huge issues in becoming involved in anything related to the Kurds is that there is a lot of support to create an ethno-state for the Kurds. I think this movement has gained more support due to semiautonomy status and the referendum in Iraq for Kurdish independence. The vote actually won but the Iraqi government refused to accept the vote. Now Syria is falling apart with the Kurds carving out an area which Assad does not control.

Do note how people support a Kurdish ethno-state but freak out at the idea in Western nations.

Shad · Oct 9, 2019

Shadow Wolf said:
In your view, but in the lives of many, including women, many Kurdish groups are incomparably better than those around them.

Compared to who? Be specific

Instead of protecting someone who probably won't be sending us the next Taliban to attack on American soil, they stepped aside for a regime that's becoming increasingly religious and fundamentalist.

Time to protect themselves otherwise the US will have to be there for decades just like it is protecting Europe now. If you provide for the defense of others they will stop worrying about defending themselves. All you are doing is advocating for expanding the US hegemony which to me seem to contradict your previous views. You seem to be flip/flop based when you care or not without looking at the larger picture. After all you were flipping out about military spending a few weeks ago yet look at what you view is doing now....

Jihadists are going to be a problem for centuries as Islamist have become a dominate movement. It is a sort step from an Islamist to a Jihadist.

You 3 weeks ago: Military intervention and spending is running the economy and creating massive national debt.

You Today: We need to use military intervention which costs trillion over years and increase our national debt because the media told me to care about the Kurds. If we leave now it will be like Iraq again! We should have stayed in Iraqi because I have the memory issues.

Hilarious.

Kenny · Oct 9, 2019

metis said:
From BBC:
Turkish troops launch Syria offensive

Thoughts?

Hard for me.

On one side I hear people saying "We aren't the police of the world" and then turn around and say "Why are we leaving these people helpless".

There are good Kurds and there are bad Kurds (different tribal positions?)

It seems like the Middle east goes from one war to the next since the Obama spring offensive then destabilized everything. IMHO.

I don't know what the answer is.

Shad · Oct 9, 2019

shmogie said:
The Kurds hold 10,000 ISIS prisoners, how long will they hold on to them if they are being slaughtered from the air ?

It is called using 10k bullets and a wall. Use multiple rifles when one wears out or to speed up the process.

Turn the prisoners over to Iraq or Syria. No one else wants them. The EU does not even want to deal with it's own citizens that joined ISIS.

Salvador · Oct 9, 2019

Shad said:
It is called using 10k bullets and a wall. Use multiple rifles when one wears out or to speed up the process.

.

I was thinking the very same, I hope they could either be turned over to another country or else get executed as humanely as possible. I'm not comfortable with the notion of anybody getting tortured.

Shad · Oct 9, 2019

Salvador said:
I was thinking the very same, I hope they could either be turned over to another country or else get executed as humanely as possible. I'm not comfortable with the notion of anybody getting tortured.

The UN does not and can not put them on trial. The foreign fighters are being turned away from their homeland. There are only two recognized states have legitimacy to put all on trial and have the will to do so; Syria and Iraq. We both know both nations will probably execute a lot of prisoners. Bleeding heart liberals fear ISIS yet refuse to use practical solutions to fight the icon of their fear. They hate intervention yet if the nation-state have criminal penalties they do not like they will flip out and become pro-intervention.

Find a cure.

LuisDantas · Oct 9, 2019

Shad said:
It is called using 10k bullets and a wall. Use multiple rifles when one wears out or to speed up the process.

Turn the prisoners over to Iraq or Syria. No one else wants them. The EU does not even want to deal with it's own citizens that joined ISIS.

For shame. Do you realize that you are proposing summary execution of prisoners without a judgement?

Turkey Invades Syria

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