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Turkey Invades Syria

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
You are old enough to know the U.S. has done this on a regular basis for decades, just insert relevant group where (Kurds) are.
The way I see it the U.S. and Western European powers wanted a war with Syria (Russia by proxy) for years, now we are getting it with other peoples bodies.
Not us...we want US snd Russia to be allies..
Well...right wingers...not the dems
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Also, it does not even serve the interests of anyone in America. Not even his own, as he will soon learn.

Trump Just Gave Turkey an Open Invitation to Slaughter the Syrian Kurds
Yes, and I believe the only hope on this is that Turkey would decide not to commit genocide on the Kurds but I'm not at all optimistic that this will be the case.

Politically, this could very much lead to Trump's unraveling as he is really upsetting the Pubs that are his main line of support. If they finally draw the conclusion that should be obvious that Trump is basically ignorant,.dishonest, and incompetent, whereas if they stay joined at the hip with Trump that it may also be their undoing, then they might start saying things like "Who's Trump?".
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Not us...we want US snd Russia to be allies..
Well...right wingers...not the dems

Some seem to forget all the anti-Syrian western propaganda we were seeing from 2014 , I guess it was too hard to sell that invasion and regime change.

I imagine pro Turkey propaganda will be on the menu soon and it's not even Thanksgiving yet here in the states.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Yes, and I believe the only hope on this is that Turkey would decide not to commit genocide on the Kurds but I'm not at all optimistic that this will be the case.

Politically, this could very much lead to Trump's unraveling as he is really upsetting the Pubs that are his main line of support. If they finally draw the conclusion that should be obvious that Trump is basically ignorant,.dishonest, and incompetent, whereas if they stay joined at the hip with Trump that it may also be their undoing, then they might start saying things like "Who's Trump?".
You know, I have just found myself wondering about a variant of that scenario that I described above.

How would feel like being a citizen living in a community where the President had sent people that I knew and love to their unnecessary mutilation and death in pointless, destructive conflict abroad? The same President that people that I interact with every day support with various degrees of enthusiasm and sometimes seem to be literally unable of giving any criticism to?

I concluded that it must lead to some bitter, frustrating political discussions. And that is what I have seen happen since, roughly, 1990s. Back in the 1970s and 1980s it was a cliche to say that all political opinions deserved attention, "except extremism". No longer.

The question therefore presented itself: what might have happened circa 1990 that might be perceived by the people of the USA as either a necessary deployment of the military or a pointless waste of the lives of good American citizens?

I found a fairly good candidate.

Gulf War - Wikipedia
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Some seem to forget all the anti-Syrian western propaganda we were seeing from 2014 , I guess it was too hard to sell that invasion and regime change.

I imagine pro Turkey propaganda will be on the menu soon and it's not even Thanksgiving yet here in the states.

War broke out in Syria in early 2011... early February.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
syria-or-bust.jpg


jihadisten-white-helmets.jpg
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Behind the Sudden Death of a $1 Billion Secret C.I.A. War in Syria - The New York Times

From article:

    • Aug. 2, 2017
    • "WASHINGTON — The end came quickly for one of the costliest covert action programs in the history of the C.I.A.
      During a White House briefing early last month, the C.I.A. director, Mike Pompeo, recommended to President Trump that he shut down a four-year-old effort to arm and train Syrian rebels. The president swiftly ended the program."
    • "The rebel army was by then a shell, hollowed out by more than a year of bombing by Russian planes and confined to ever-shrinking patches of Syria that government troops had not reconquered. Critics in Congress had complained for years about the costs — more than $1 billion over the life of the program — and reports that some of the C.I.A.-supplied weapons had ended up in the hands of a rebel group tied to Al Qaeda further sapped political support for the program.
      While critics of Mr. Trump have argued that he ended the program to curry favor with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, there were in fact dim views of the effort in both the Trump and Obama White Houses — a rare confluence of opinion on national security policy."


 

Shad

Veteran Member
Behind the Sudden Death of a $1 Billion Secret C.I.A. War in Syria - The New York Times

From article:

    • Aug. 2, 2017
    • "WASHINGTON — The end came quickly for one of the costliest covert action programs in the history of the C.I.A.
      During a White House briefing early last month, the C.I.A. director, Mike Pompeo, recommended to President Trump that he shut down a four-year-old effort to arm and train Syrian rebels. The president swiftly ended the program."
    • "The rebel army was by then a shell, hollowed out by more than a year of bombing by Russian planes and confined to ever-shrinking patches of Syria that government troops had not reconquered. Critics in Congress had complained for years about the costs — more than $1 billion over the life of the program — and reports that some of the C.I.A.-supplied weapons had ended up in the hands of a rebel group tied to Al Qaeda further sapped political support for the program.
      While critics of Mr. Trump have argued that he ended the program to curry favor with President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia, there were in fact dim views of the effort in both the Trump and Obama White Houses — a rare confluence of opinion on national security policy."



Wasn't it McCain that did the photo-op with rebels that turned out to be jihadists later?
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
You know, I have a hard time enough time coping with the knowledge that I live and interact with people who voted in Bolsonaro.

But that must pale in comparison to knowing that someone who voted for deliberate, quite evitable bloodshed.

Word has it that there was quite a lot of conturbation for that very reason back in the 1960s and 1970s due to Vietnam.
Things for pretty ugly then from what I'm told. But, those who voted for Trump, interacting with them, no coping needed. Alot if them aren't very well informed to begin with.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
War broke out in Syria in early 2011... early February.

Declassified CIA Report Exposes 25 Years of US Plans to Destabilize Syria

"SYRIA — While the nearly seven-year-long sectarian “civil war” in Syria is widely believed to have started in 2011, revelations in recent years have shown that the sectarian war that has sunk Syria into chaos actually precedes the “official” start of the conflict.
In 2010, Wikileaks published hundreds of thousands of classified State Department cables, including a 2006 cable showing that destabilizing the Syrian government was a primary goal of U.S. policy in the Middle East. The ultimate intention was to topple Iran, one of Syria’s closest allies. The cable revealed that the U.S.’ goal at the time was to undermine the Syrian government by any means available."


This is interesting:
SYRIA: SCENARIOS OF DRAMATIC POLITICAL CHANGE
 

Shad

Veteran Member
You are old enough to know the U.S. has done this on a regular basis for decades, just insert relevant group where (Kurds) are.
The way I see it the U.S. and Western European powers wanted a war with Syria (Russia by proxy) for years, now we are getting it with other peoples bodies.

Jihadists have been a proxy for the US for decades.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Did you note where ISIS territory is? All your map proves is the reason to be in Syria (ISIS) is no longer valid ergo Trump is right and Bolton is lying.

Yes.. They are going after our allies, the Kurds.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Declassified CIA Report Exposes 25 Years of US Plans to Destabilize Syria

"SYRIA — While the nearly seven-year-long sectarian “civil war” in Syria is widely believed to have started in 2011, revelations in recent years have shown that the sectarian war that has sunk Syria into chaos actually precedes the “official” start of the conflict.
In 2010, Wikileaks published hundreds of thousands of classified State Department cables, including a 2006 cable showing that destabilizing the Syrian government was a primary goal of U.S. policy in the Middle East. The ultimate intention was to topple Iran, one of Syria’s closest allies. The cable revealed that the U.S.’ goal at the time was to undermine the Syrian government by any means available."

During the Bush administration Bibi Netanyahu and the NeoCons of the PNAC pushed hard to take out Syria,, They had begun that effort in 1998,.. when they pushed for the invasion of Iraq.

Obama didn't make any effort to take Syria down.. NONE..
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Not sure what will come of this, although I think the world will be watching this very closely for any missteps by Turkey.

I've often wondered why US policy has been so deferent to Turkey. This isn't the first time either.

We stood by as Turkey invaded Cyprus back in the 70s, abandoning our Greek allies.

US officials have also routinely downplayed the Armenian genocide largely to avoid offending the Turkish government.

And then there are the Kurds in Iraq, who have been wanting to form an independent state, yet keep getting blocked. The Turkish don't want the Kurds to have an independent state anywhere, and the US has acceded to this.

A larger concern might be if Syrian forces clash with Turkish forces and what Russia's response might be. Russia and Turkey are ancient enemies. The Russians have been wanting to liberate Constantinople for centuries.

The Greeks in Cyprus were not representative of the government on mainland. It was a military junta that overthrew the government of Cyprus.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
During the Bush administration Bibi Netanyahu and the NeoCons of the PNAC pushed hard to take out Syria,, They had begun that effort in 1998,.. when they pushed for the invasion of Iraq.

Obama didn't make any effort to take Syria down.. NONE..

Wonder who was behind the protests in the first place? The CIA is well known to sow discord and train rebels

U.S. BACKING REBELS IN 4 COUNTRIES (and that was just at that time)

CIA activities in Syria - Wikipedia

Obama making the case for more U.S. involvement in 2013:

 
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