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Why Does Your God Punish People?

1213

Well-Known Member
Assuming you are a theist who believes that his or her god punishes people, precisely why does your god punish people?....

Bible tells that the wage of sin is death.

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

Sin is the opposite of righteous. And I believe God doesn’t want unrighteous to live forever, because they would then make life eternal suffering. So, I think God “punishes”, because He wants to end evil.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Assuming you are a theist who believes that his or her god punishes people, precisely why does your god punish people?.

God disciplines his children for the same reason a loving parent disciplines his children. The motivation is love and to help us grow and mature.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
God disciplines his children for the same reason a loving parent disciplines his children. The motivation is love and to help us grow and mature.
Nonsense.
Punishing people after they're dead is nothing but disgusting vengeance.

Omnimax God could just fix whatever is wrong with us limited humans, once we know that God exists and cares.

Suppose you told your kid, "Don't play in the street. A car could hit you!". But the kid did it anyway. And got hit by a car and was paralyzed.
Would you, a loving parent, then punish the kid forever? Because s/he didn't mind? Keep him alive, in the basement, and constantly point out to him/her that they're going to be suffering in the basement forever to teach them why playing in the street is a bad idea?
After they can't play anywhere, ever again?

That isn't my idea of a loving parent's response. Quite the opposite, it sounds like a vicious psychopath with magic power to fix their child's limbs, but refuses to do so because their siblings upstairs would not feel that was fair.
Tom
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
The devil is the punisher and its the job of God to deny him. I believe inner peace is the key to ending our own suffering, but not other people. Even the nihil demons, and the nihil demon-angels will be rendered useless to inner equanimity.
 
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A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
God disciplines his children for the same reason a loving parent disciplines his children. The motivation is love and to help us grow and mature.
Is this done during a life-time however? The reason I ask is because any punishment from God is then dealt out in a way that no parent on Earth would do so. And that is, it is done in secret, with the punished party having to discern for themselves what they are being punished for.

Just imagine a parent who rewards their kids' straight-A report card by planting a 5-dollar bill in the bushes for them to find on their morning walk to school. Instead of telling the child why you are rewarding them, correlating the results of their good works directly with the reward, you instead just hand them something at a random time and say nothing.

Or even worse is the punishment. Let's say I see my daughter light up a cigarette with her friends, and I intend to punish her for smoking under-age. So, instead of talking to her, letting her know what it is about her behavior I don't like, and giving her reasons as to why I am trying to protect her from that behavior, instead I decide to just put a bunch of spiders in her bed that night just before she goes to bed. I don't tell her it was me who planted the spiders, I don't tell her why - I just leave it up to her to put two-and-two together... just like God does.

I honestly couldn't think of a more foolish system of reward and punishment. A parent would have their child taken away by child services if they behaved in this manner.
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
I think one could just as easily ask why does God reward a soul as why does God punish it. In either case it would be because the wayward soul is trained by the pillars of reward and punishment into the path of virtue

Why would God punish? Gods love forbids good and evil. I think that PUNISHMENT should be left to serve the devil and then God and Heaven can determine the fate of the devil and his purpose.
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
Nonsense.
Punishing people after they're dead is nothing but disgusting vengeance.

Omnimax God could just fix whatever is wrong with us limited humans, once we know that God exists and cares.

Suppose you told your kid, "Don't play in the street. A car could hit you!". But the kid did it anyway. And got hit by a car and was paralyzed.
Would you, a loving parent, then punish the kid forever? Because s/he didn't mind? Keep him alive, in the basement, and constantly point out to him/her that they're going to be suffering in the basement forever to teach them why playing in the street is a bad idea?
After they can't play anywhere, ever again?

That isn't my idea of a loving parent's response. Quite the opposite, it sounds like a vicious psychopath with magic power to fix their child's limbs, but refuses to do so because their siblings upstairs would not feel that was fair.
Tom

I was speaking in the context of this life. But I also don't believe God punishes people forever in the next life. And yes, any "punishment" or "discipline" from God I believe to be for our welfare with the idea that we will learn and improve.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Assuming you are a theist who believes that his or her god punishes people, precisely why does your god punish people?

......

By the way, to assert that your god punishes people because they "deserve" or "warrant" being punished strikes me as a cop-out, a superficial and shallow response, for it fails by itself to address the question, but only appears to do so.

That is to say, stating that a person deserves or warrants being punished for something does not in and of itself explain by what cause or reason does deserving or warranting punishment for something mean one should be punished for it.

You can perhaps more easily see the point if you consider a non-traditional example of such a statement. e.g. "Jones deserves to be fined for inflating a party balloon". That non-traditional example, I believe, makes clear that merely saying someone deserves or warrants a punishment for something does not by itself explain why they deserve or warrant to be punished for it.
"Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
I will make a man more precious than fine gold"
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
All the evidence we need for God's existence is all around us.....many just attribute it to the undirected forces of blind chance, effectively eliminating the artist from his own masterpiece and saying in effect, that the paint just arranged itself on the canvas accidentally. They admire the work but give no credit to its brilliant Creator.

Some people get mad at God for hiding himself, when the opposite is true....his creation tell us all we need to know about his personality, and his written word tells us all about his purpose....who we are...why we are here...what we are supposed to do here....and where we are going. Science tells us nothing about those important questions. There is a reason why we need to know the answers.

Sometime I also get doubts when I see His creation. For instance, parasite wasps are amazing.

They are able to turn a caterpillar into a living zombie, by puncturing its brain precisely, keep it alive as long as possible, so that the larvae can slowly eat it inside out while it is still warm.

The bacterium that is turning many poor kids to permanent blindness is also a beautiful example of His perfect and benevolent design.

Ebola, malaria, the black death plague, etc. are also a beautiful examples of a marvelous artist at work.

And, last but not least, the amazing design of the lion, perfectly tuned to hunt the gazelle, and the amazing design of the gazelle, perfectly tuned to escape the lion. Amazing. Like those people playing chess against themselves.

A real artist. And His masterwork. LOL.

Ciao

- viole
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Sometime I also get doubts when I see His creation. For instance, parasite wasps are amazing.

They are able to turn a caterpillar into a living zombie, by puncturing its brain precisely, keep it alive as long as possible, so that the larvae can slowly eat it inside out while it is still warm.

The bacterium that is turning many poor kids to permanent blindness is also a beautiful example of His perfect and benevolent design.

Ebola, malaria, the black death plague, etc. are also a beautiful examples of a marvelous artist at work.

And, last but not least, the amazing design of the lion, perfectly tuned to hunt the gazelle, and the amazing design of the gazelle, perfectly tuned to escape the lion. Amazing. Like those people playing chess against themselves.

A real artist. And His masterwork. LOL.

Ciao

- viole
If it weren't for God you wouldn't even be breathing.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Assuming you are a theist who believes that his or her god punishes people, precisely why does your god punish people?

......

By the way, to assert that your god punishes people because they "deserve" or "warrant" being punished strikes me as a cop-out, a superficial and shallow response, for it fails by itself to address the question, but only appears to do so.

That is to say, stating that a person deserves or warrants being punished for something does not in and of itself explain by what cause or reason does deserving or warranting punishment for something mean one should be punished for it.

You can perhaps more easily see the point if you consider a non-traditional example of such a statement. e.g. "Jones deserves to be fined for inflating a party balloon". That non-traditional example, I believe, makes clear that merely saying someone deserves or warrants a punishment for something does not by itself explain why they deserve or warrant to be punished for it.
In my faith, the punishment has been paid for. Thus, because of double indemnity, no one deserves or warrants to be punished. (Life itself will dole out punishment on its own)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Sometime I also get doubts when I see His creation. For instance, parasite wasps are amazing.

They are able to turn a caterpillar into a living zombie, by puncturing its brain precisely, keep it alive as long as possible, so that the larvae can slowly eat it inside out while it is still warm.

Yes it is amazing how one creature is designed to provide a food source for another. Do you honestly believe something so precise could come about by chance? Are caterpillars sentient creatures who are aware of what is happening to them. Do they plan how to avoid the predator? Do the wasps feel bad for providing food for their offspring in this way?

The bacterium that is turning many poor kids to permanent blindness is also a beautiful example of His perfect and benevolent design.

Ebola, malaria, the black death plague, etc. are also a beautiful examples of a marvelous artist at work.

Scripture explains how that happens.....you see we have this amazing physical defence mechanism called the immune system. If humans had remained under God's care and protection, they would never have suffered from the effects of sin. This led to a weakened immune system which in turn led to sickness, aging and death....none of which were supposed to happen.

We have been rendered easy prey to many mutated forms of bacteria and viruses by the indiscriminate use of anti-biotics here in the west.....not to mention our fetish with "germs" which has led to killing all bacteria as if they are all enemies of mankind. The balance of good and bad bacteria has been shot to pieces and now compromised immune systems cannot function. Increases in asthma and allergies and all manner of auto-immune disorders are the result.
Then we have cancer and heart disease because of the poor nutritional value in the food we eat.....fast food particularly contributing to the epidemic of obesity and its companion, diabetes.

Poverty and malnutrition have made those in poorer nations open to all manner of infectious diseases. Poor hygiene, contaminated water and local customs concerning the handling and burial of the dead, also contribute to the problem. You need to be a little more realistic about the human element in all these things.

And, last but not least, the amazing design of the lion, perfectly tuned to hunt the gazelle, and the amazing design of the gazelle, perfectly tuned to escape the lion. Amazing. Like those people playing chess against themselves.

The Bible tells us that nothing on this planet reflects the balance of nature that was originally seen in the beginning. Animals providing food for other animals is just the way it is for now, but we are assured that all will return to the way it was in the beginning when God has finished testing out the hearts and minds of us humans. After all, it is because of us that we are in this mess.

Humans deciding for themselves what was good and what was bad, led the entire human race into a monstrous global catastrophe of their own making.....we need to put the blame where it lies.

A real artist. And His masterwork.

Yes, that is what I see....it's a shame that you can't.

How observant of you to ignore all the good and amazing things in nature to focus on what you see as flaws in God's design....I don't think you really have any idea of the big picture. You only see what you want to see....and that is your choice. Isn't it good that you have one.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Yes it is amazing how one creature is designed to provide a food source for another. Do you honestly believe something so precise could come about by chance? Are caterpillars sentient creatures who are aware of what is happening to them. Do they plan how to avoid the predator? Do the wasps feel bad for providing food for their offspring in this way?



Scripture explains how that happens.....you see we have this amazing physical defence mechanism called the immune system. If humans had remained under God's care and protection, they would never have suffered from the effects of sin. This led to a weakened immune system which in turn led to sickness, aging and death....none of which were supposed to happen.

We have been rendered easy prey to many mutated forms of bacteria and viruses by the indiscriminate use of anti-biotics here in the west.....not to mention our fetish with "germs" which has led to killing all bacteria as if they are all enemies of mankind. The balance of good and bad bacteria has been shot to pieces and now compromised immune systems cannot function. Increases in asthma and allergies and all manner of auto-immune disorders are the result.
Then we have cancer and heart disease because of the poor nutritional value in the food we eat.....fast food particularly contributing to the epidemic of obesity and its companion, diabetes.

Poverty and malnutrition have made those in poorer nations open to all manner of infectious diseases. Poor hygiene, contaminated water and local customs concerning the handling and burial of the dead, also contribute to the problem. You need to be a little more realistic about the human element in all these things.



The Bible tells us that nothing on this planet reflects the balance of nature that was originally seen in the beginning. Animals providing food for other animals is just the way it is for now, but we are assured that all will return to the way it was in the beginning when God has finished testing out the hearts and minds of us humans. After all, it is because of us that we are in this mess.

Humans deciding for themselves what was good and what was bad, led the entire human race into a monstrous global catastrophe of their own making.....we need to put the blame where it lies.



Yes, that is what I see....it's a shame that you can't.

How observant of you to ignore all the good and amazing things in nature to focus on what you see as flaws in God's design....I don't think you really have any idea of the big picture. You only see what you want to see....and that is your choice. Isn't it good that you have one.

In my opinion it is sad you believe as you do.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Yes it is amazing how one creature is designed to provide a food source for another. Do you honestly believe something so precise could come about by chance? Are caterpillars sentient creatures who are aware of what is happening to them. Do they plan how to avoid the predator? Do the wasps feel bad for providing food for their offspring in this way?



Scripture explains how that happens.....you see we have this amazing physical defence mechanism called the immune system. If humans had remained under God's care and protection, they would never have suffered from the effects of sin. This led to a weakened immune system which in turn led to sickness, aging and death....none of which were supposed to happen.

We have been rendered easy prey to many mutated forms of bacteria and viruses by the indiscriminate use of anti-biotics here in the west.....not to mention our fetish with "germs" which has led to killing all bacteria as if they are all enemies of mankind. The balance of good and bad bacteria has been shot to pieces and now compromised immune systems cannot function. Increases in asthma and allergies and all manner of auto-immune disorders are the result.
Then we have cancer and heart disease because of the poor nutritional value in the food we eat.....fast food particularly contributing to the epidemic of obesity and its companion, diabetes.

Poverty and malnutrition have made those in poorer nations open to all manner of infectious diseases. Poor hygiene, contaminated water and local customs concerning the handling and burial of the dead, also contribute to the problem. You need to be a little more realistic about the human element in all these things.



The Bible tells us that nothing on this planet reflects the balance of nature that was originally seen in the beginning. Animals providing food for other animals is just the way it is for now, but we are assured that all will return to the way it was in the beginning when God has finished testing out the hearts and minds of us humans. After all, it is because of us that we are in this mess.

Humans deciding for themselves what was good and what was bad, led the entire human race into a monstrous global catastrophe of their own making.....we need to put the blame where it lies.



Yes, that is what I see....it's a shame that you can't.

How observant of you to ignore all the good and amazing things in nature to focus on what you see as flaws in God's design....I don't think you really have any idea of the big picture. You only see what you want to see....and that is your choice. Isn't it good that you have one.

So, He designed animals to be source of food for other animals, but that was not foreseen? That is obviously logically incoherent. So, when Jesus comes back, we all be vegetarians again? The lion and all? I wonder what carrots and lettuce think about it.

Of course I do that. To look for flaws.It is my job. Even the most beautiful theorem, that can take pages and pages of beauty, can be safely tossed in the trash bin if it has even the tiniest flaw.

And honestly, if I had His power, I would have done much better. Easily.

Ciao

- viole
 
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