"My great and unmatched wisdom..."

Debater Slayer said:

I'm of the opinion that being a genuine Trump supporter at this juncture indicates deep irrationality, ignorance, bigotry, or moral bankruptcy--and often a combination of more than one of these factors.

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This kind of attitude, where people who disagree politically can only do so as they are bad or deeply flawed people, is very harmful and helps politicians like Trump.

Also, given what we know about human psychology, it's also deeply irrational.

People can have differing priorities for perfectly normal reasons, and once emotionally driven, partisan conflict begins we know what effects this has on how we interpret and process information.

Augustus said:

This kind of attitude, where people who disagree politically can only do so as they are bad or deeply flawed people, is very harmful and helps politicians like Trump.

Also, given what we know about human psychology, it's also deeply irrational.

People can have differing priorities for perfectly normal reasons, and once emotionally driven, partisan conflict begins we know what effects this has on how we interpret and process information.

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I'm not talking about political disagreements in general. My post is specifically about supporting Trump's beliefs and actions at this point in time compared to, say, in 2016 when supporting him with nothing but a vote (while possibly disagreeing with a lot of what he stood for) was the only alternative to a Hillary Clinton presidency.

Furthermore, it seems to me that it is mistaken to believe that ignorance necessarily makes a person "deeply flawed." Everyone is ignorant about something; it is just especially costly to be ignorant about certain subjects when that helps in giving rise to a corrupt and abusive leader.

I do find that your argument overcomplicates something that perhaps we can't afford to hesitate about anymore. While the idea that most people are good and rational or have "perfectly normal reasons" to agree with the ideology of an abusive bigot may be appealing and potentially convenient for moral relativism that gives too much room for immoral stances as "differing opinions," I believe it simply avoids a core problem of our times instead of tackling the actual causes behind it no matter how unpleasant they may be.

Unambiguously rejecting the principles of someone like Trump and his most avid supporters doesn't help him; trying to treat them as rational people instead of shoring up public support and awareness to combat their political effects is what helps him.

Shadow Wolf said:

It's stuff like that is why he needs a psych eval, because it appears his grasp on reality is slipping. He get's in trouble asking Ukraine to investigate Biden, and then asks China to right after that. And now he's claiming to have obliterated Turkey's economy, which is clearly something he's never done, and it's on top of an extremely grandiose and blatantly delusional thing to think about oneself.

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Nah. It is stuff like that which define TDS.
"Done (that kind of thing) before" is plainly enough
the meaning.

Not that Trump isn't full of himself!

I think Trump looked at the titles on offer - President of the United States, Leader of the Free World, Exemplar to all mankind, Supreme intellect, Oh most loved and worthy one, and Clown - went for the last - as our BoJo has done - play for the laughs, then all will be forgiven (in the end). As F if!

Debater Slayer said:

I'm of the opinion that being a genuine Trump supporter at this juncture indicates deep irrationality, ignorance, bigotry, or moral bankruptcy--and often a combination of more than one of these factors. Consequently, I don't believe that this flagrantly narcissistic tweet will do much in the grand scheme of things to dissuade many current Trump supporters from endorsing him.

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Kind of depressing to see you americans destroying
yourselves with such animosity and bigotry toward each other.

Audie said:

Kind of depressing to see you americans destroying
yourselves with such animosity and bigotry toward each other.

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I'm neither American nor have I ever been to the U.S. This is at least the fifth time someone on this forum has assumed that, though, so, on the "bright" side, you're not the first.

Since I believe it will probably be fruitless, I'll pass on debating about why I don't believe that there is an ounce of bigotry in vocally opposing what Trump and his most loyal supporters stand for as well as calling them out for their support of blatant abuse.

Debater Slayer said:

I'm neither American nor have I ever been to the U.S. This is at least the fifth time someone on this forum has assumed that, though, so, on the "bright" side, you're not the first.

Since I believe it will probably be fruitless, I'll pass on debating about why I don't believe that there is an ounce of bigotry in vocally opposing what Trump and his most loyal supporters stand for as well as calling them out for their support of blatant abuse.

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You are not the first to fail to recognize that they
are the mirror image of what they denounce.

I see you switched from denouncing people as
morally bankrupt to "opposing" policies, so
I will take that as tacit agreement that what
you were saying about people you not only
dont know, but have not even been in their
country, is in fact bigotry.

lewisnotmiller said:

Well, that's okay then. Not like Poe's law might strike, and any other nations might not get that he was being ironic.

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I have the feeling that EVERYBODY gets the verbal irony. Except those who already hate him and are absolutely determined to take it literally. His political opponents, who know that it was verbal irony and don't care.

Audie said:

You are not the first to fail to recognize that they
are the mirror image of what they denounce.

I see you switched from denouncing people as
morally bankrupt to "opposing" policies, so
I will take that as tacit agreement that what
you were saying about people you not only
dont know, but have not even been in their
country, is in fact bigotry.

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No, I stand by my opinion that it is indeed a sign of ignorance or moral bankruptcy to still genuinely support Trump's ideals at this point. Usually, it is a sign of both, actually.

I don't feel like spending my time of day arguing over "unbiased" apologetics for Trump or his loyal base, though. Like I said, I'll pass. Keep believing what you will.

Trump supporters don't seem very bright to me. Gullible would be the word.

Evangelicalhumanist said:

Well now we know. We have it from the horse's mouth, as they say. Nobody, anywhere, is as wise as is the Donald. Read his tweet, from 8:38 this morning:

"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I’ve done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over..."

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Well, in his unmatched narcissism and hubris, he consider himself being Jesus Christ returned, the savior for all mankind, so there's no surprise.

LuisDantas said:

Are you Americans trying to distract us from our own clown in chief?

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You forgot Clown in Cheif, the Almighty and Master Rainbow Farter.

My prediction is that in a week or so, he'll claim that he can control the weather with his mind, and his name is really Sir Lancelot.

dianaiad said:

In fact, Occam's Razor would tell anybody that it is FAR more likely that Trump was engaging in verbal irony...and self mockery...than that he was serious.

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Which shows how little he cares about human life. Making fun of a serious situation when an ally is in serious trouble and people will die.

Ouroboros said:

Which shows how little he cares about human life. Making fun of a serious situation when an ally is in serious trouble and people will die.

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....and political correctness strikes again.

Here's a hint; people are more likely to 'make fun' in serious situations than they are when situations are not serious. It's not the words that count.

It's what is done. Wait to see what is done.

Now I'm quite certain that there isn't ANYTHING that Trump can do that you would approve of; not because the action is wrong, but because Trump does it.

Still, wait to see what is done before you put your politically correct 'woke' filter on it.

dianaiad said:

I have the feeling that EVERYBODY gets the verbal irony. Except those who already hate him and are absolutely determined to take it literally. His political opponents, who know that it was verbal irony and don't care.

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You're entitled to your opinion, but even here on RF (where there are no stakes) people misunderstand intent.
For a President to joke about destroying an economy seems reckless. And Twitter has already apologised for letting 'Mahvolurson Trump' trend. Of course you can characterise those Tweeters as people who hate Trump, but that isn't the same as saying a sitting Presidents tweets aren't impactful, or can't be misinterpreted or harmful to relations.

lewisnotmiller said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but even here on RF (where there are no stakes) people misunderstand intent.
For a President to joke about destroying an economy seems reckless. And Twitter has already apologised for letting 'Mahvolurson Trump' trend. Of course you can characterise those Tweeters as people who hate Trump, but that isn't the same as saying a sitting Presidents tweets aren't impactful, or can't be misinterpreted or harmful to relations.

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Of course they can. And they are. And that WAS a bad joke, but again, Occam's Razor would require that it be recognized as a joke, albeit a bad one, not a serious threat or serious brag.

No matter who said it.

Debater Slayer said:

No, I stand by my opinion that it is indeed a sign of ignorance or moral bankruptcy to still genuinely support Trump's ideals at this point. Usually, it is a sign of both, actually.

I don't feel like spending my time of day arguing over "unbiased" apologetics for Trump or his loyal base, though. Like I said, I'll pass. Keep believing what you will.

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Yeah, you did switch.

I am no trump apologist. But I do live in the
USA at present, and feel you are mischaracterizing
a lot of people.

It was "policies"now it is "ideals" Sort of the same i guess.

What policies or ideals do you feel are immoral?

lewisnotmiller said:

You're entitled to your opinion, but even here on RF (where there are no stakes) people misunderstand intent.
For a President to joke about destroying an economy seems reckless. And Twitter has already apologised for letting 'Mahvolurson Trump' trend. Of course you can characterise those Tweeters as people who hate Trump, but that isn't the same as saying a sitting Presidents tweets aren't impactful, or can't be misinterpreted or harmful to relations.

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It sure did not look like a joke to me. More like a
threat.
Turkey has the 15th largest economy in the world, and
is an increasingly significant player on the world scene.
The threat is hollow, but wont be forgotten.

Ouroboros said:

You forgot Clown in Cheif, the Almighty and Master Rainbow Farter.

My prediction is that in a week or so, he'll claim that he can control the weather with his mind, and his name is really Sir Lancelot.

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Lets hope he does. Then maybe the boys in white will
help him to an ambulance.

Augustus said:

This kind of attitude, where people who disagree politically can only do so as they are bad or deeply flawed people, is very harmful and helps politicians like Trump.

Also, given what we know about human psychology, it's also deeply irrational.

People can have differing priorities for perfectly normal reasons, and once emotionally driven, partisan conflict begins we know what effects this has on how we interpret and process information.

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Trouble is, that is an entirely separate matter - or at least it better be.