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Heaven vs the Kingdom

where are you going?

  • straight up to heaven

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • going to the grave and wait for bodily resurrection

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • thought it was the same place

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

calm

Active Member
Dear brother
Thanks for the reply and I really appreciate it
I love the children of Israel and my most important brothers
I don't want to bother you dude sorry
last question
Is there any verses in the Torah bible or the Gospel that says that heaven will be only for the 12 Jewish tribes of the children of Israel

GOD bless you
amen
According to the Bible, all good Gentiles will inherit the earth and live there forever. These Gentiles are also called the "righteous. (Psalm 37:11, 29, 34)(Revelation 7:9)
But the good Jews will go to heaven and live there forever and reign with God. These Jews will be called the "chosen ones". (Revelation 7:4)(1 Peter 1:3-4)(Mark 13:27)
The resurrection to life in heaven is called "the first resurrection" (Revelation 20:6). This shows that there will be another resurrection on earth.
So there are two different groups that will receive eternal life. This becomes clear in Revelation 7:4-9.

Jesus also mentions 2 different folds of sheep following him, the first fold are the Jews and the other fold representing the gentiles. (John 10:16)
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I'll go to Gehenna for 11 figurative months, where I'll be purified. The real benefit comes when I will be resurrected and live in the World to Come. It won't be a spiritual heaven where I'm a ghost, but a new earth.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
According to the Bible, all good Gentiles will inherit the earth and live there forever. These Gentiles are also called the "righteous. (Psalm 37:11, 29, 34)
This Psalm does not support your position. Gentiles were idolaters. The righteous that are referred to in these verses are the Jews who know the LORD God and obey he commandments.

Today, Jews do teach an expanded form of this, where righteous Gentiles also have a share in the world to come, Righteous meaning follow the Noahide laws (think: believe in God and live a moral life).
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
even though scripture reports
The Kingdom is NOT of this world
It is within you

and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

So.....which is it?
and where do you think you are going?

Your poll is missing some options.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
The Kingdom is NOT of this world
It is within you
You are referring to the Microcosm.

The 'Tabernacle within the Tabernacle'...

mhp-0707.png


mhp-0709.png


Then there is Abraham's Bosom...

mhp-0832.png


In Earth as it is in Heaven.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You are referring to the Microcosm.

The 'Tabernacle within the Tabernacle'...

mhp-0707.png


mhp-0709.png


Then there is Abraham's Bosom...

mhp-0832.png


In Earth as it is in Heaven.
interesting comparations
but....

I suspect....
the frame of mind and heart that you are....
indicates where you are going

if you yearn for spirit.....you become spirit
if you desire the flesh....you must return to it to be happy

the kingdom with in you
is a catch phrase
a warning

you go wherever you belong
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
interesting comparations
but....

I suspect....
the frame of mind and heart that you are....
indicates where you are going

if you yearn for spirit.....you become spirit
if you desire the flesh....you must return to it to be happy

the kingdom with in you
is a catch phrase
a warning

you go wherever you belong

You mentioned destinations, not what we would be when we GOT there. Thanks for the clarification, but your poll still misses a few questions.

Let's put it this way. your poll, entitled 'Where are you going?" didn't contain an option I could pick.

"straight up to heaven?" uh, no, most probably not.
"going to the grave and wait for bodily resurrection?" definitely not.
"I thought they were the same place?" Uh, no....

And since you didn't mention 'spirit' in there anywhere....humn....

If you had included, say;

"somewhere to await the judgment, after which I'll go to a heaven" I could have checked that, but it STILL wouldn't talk about the spirit.

Perhaps you could have revised it?

"your spirit goes to an afterlife"
"Your spirit, like your body, 'goes to the grave' to await resurrection, if you are found worthy."
"you don't have a spirit that will go anywhere."


At least then I would have known what point you were making. As it happens, I do believe my spirit will go on, and go somewhere...somewhere I will be useful. My body will end up cremated and close to my husband's grave, and my spirit will await the arrival of my family, when their spirits show up.

But that option wasn't part of the poll.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
even though scripture reports
The Kingdom is NOT of this world
It is within you

and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

So.....which is it?
and where do you think you are going?

Luke 17:21 is so often misinterpreted......the Kingdom of God is not "within" anyone.

If you understand what the Kingdom of God is, then you can't make that mistake.

According to Daniel who foretold all the world powers who have interacted with his people, from the time of Babylon, up until the coming of God's Kingdom, Daniel 2:44 says of the time period of the last ruling power....
"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever".

So in the time of the last ruling power (the time that we are living in now) God's Kingdom will "come" (as Jesus taught us to pray)....how does it "come"? Daniel indicates that it will crush all corrupt human rulership out of existence and replace them...not temporarily, but forever.

That makes the Kingdom of God a governmental arrangement with Jesus as King and 144,000 chosen to rule with him. It is a heavenly kingdom with earthly subjects, as it says in Revelation 21:2-4...

"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Having done away with all of the conflicting world powers, God will restore harmony among the faithful, and all the things that caused 'mourning, outcry and pain', will be gone, along with the one thing that causes more grief than anything...death. What good news that is for those who hate this world and what it stands for....but not so good news for those who have no place for God in their lives. Supporters of this world's corrupt governments will go down with them.

So what did Jesus mean when he said "the Kingdom of God is within you"? Translated another way and given that Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, Jesus said "the Kingdom of God is in your midst"....meaning that those wicked Pharisees, (whom Jesus said had hearts far removed from him) were not holding the Kingdom within themselves....but that the King of God's Kingdom was standing right in the midst of them, but they failed to recognize or acknowledge him.

We need to know what God's Kingdom is so that we can give people the "good news" about it. (Matthew 24:14)
All failed human rulership with its corruption and bloodshed is about to be replaced by the righteous government of God with Jesus at the helm. We will never have to endure selfish rulership by man under the devil's influence again. (1 John 5:19)

What do you think about that?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Luke 17:21 is so often misinterpreted......the Kingdom of God is not "within" anyone.

If you understand what the Kingdom of God is, then you can't make that mistake.

According to Daniel who foretold all the world powers who have interacted with his people, from the time of Babylon, up until the coming of God's Kingdom, Daniel 2:44 says of the time period of the last ruling power....
"In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever".

So in the time of the last ruling power (the time that we are living in now) God's Kingdom will "come" (as Jesus taught us to pray)....how does it "come"? Daniel indicates that it will crush all corrupt human rulership out of existence and replace them...not temporarily, but forever.

That makes the Kingdom of God a governmental arrangement with Jesus as King and 144,000 chosen to rule with him. It is a heavenly kingdom with earthly subjects, as it says in Revelation 21:2-4...

"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Having done away with all of the conflicting world powers, God will restore harmony among the faithful, and all the things that caused 'mourning, outcry and pain', will be gone, along with the one thing that causes more grief than anything...death. What good news that is for those who hate this world and what it stands for....but not so good news for those who have no place for God in their lives. Supporters of this world's corrupt governments will go down with them.

So what did Jesus mean when he said "the Kingdom of God is within you"? Translated another way and given that Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, Jesus said "the Kingdom of God is in your midst"....meaning that those wicked Pharisees, (whom Jesus said had hearts far removed from him) were not holding the Kingdom within themselves....but that the King of God's Kingdom was standing right in the midst of them, but they failed to recognize or acknowledge him.

We need to know what God's Kingdom is so that we can give people the "good news" about it. (Matthew 24:14)
All failed human rulership with its corruption and bloodshed is about to be replaced by the righteous government of God with Jesus at the helm. We will never have to endure selfish rulership by man under the devil's influence again. (1 John 5:19)

What do you think about that?
Christ within you , through Christ one finds that narrow gate to the kingdom near. So, the Key is within you....
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Christ within you , through Christ one finds that narrow gate to the kingdom near. So, the Key is within you....

The choice to enter the narrow gate and travel the cramped road is a carefully considered one, and not one for the faint hearted. For the early Christians, it often meant a martyr's death.

That is not what Jesus said in Luke 17:21 though....he was not telling the Pharisees that the Kingdom of God was "within" their wicked hearts.....

Other translation indicate what he meant.....

ASV..."
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Footnotes:
  1. Luke 17:21 Or, in the midst of you"
NASB..."nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

That makes a big difference to our understanding of his words....

See the words of Jesus in context...

"On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.

22 Then he said to the disciples: “Days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it. 23 And people will say to you, ‘See there!’ or, ‘See here!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24 For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day. 25 First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation. 26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed."


He was addressing the Pharisees. There is a warning.....the "coming" of the Kingdom of God in the first instance, was not to be a striking event. Jesus was baptized as Messiah quietly in the River Jordan by his cousin John. God's spirit descended upon him and a voice was heard from heaven proclaiming Jesus as God's beloved son. Everything was all set for the ministry and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, and it changed the world forever.

The time of Christ's return however was not going to be a quiet affair. The world would be turned on its ear because of the events that were prophesied to take place at that time. (Matthew 24:3-14) Those who took note of the "sign" that Jesus gave to indicate his return as King, were not left in any doubt. But the world at large didn't understand that something was taking place that required a decision from them. Jesus likened it to the days of Noah before the flood and the days before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.....the inhabitants on both occasions were not prepared for what came upon them. A warning was sounded by Noah but it was not heeded.....Jesus said it would be the same when he came again.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
The choice to enter the narrow gate and travel the cramped road is a carefully considered one, and not one for the faint hearted. For the early Christians, it often meant a martyr's death.

That is not what Jesus said in Luke 17:21 though....he was not telling the Pharisees that the Kingdom of God was "within" their wicked hearts.....

Other translation indicate what he meant.....

ASV..."
21 neither shall they say, Lo, here! or, There! for lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

Footnotes:
  1. Luke 17:21 Or, in the midst of you"
NASB..."nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

That makes a big difference to our understanding of his words....

See the words of Jesus in context...

"On being asked by the Pharisees when the Kingdom of God was coming, he answered them: “The Kingdom of God is not coming with striking observableness; 21 nor will people say, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For look! the Kingdom of God is in your midst.

22 Then he said to the disciples: “Days will come when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, but you will not see it. 23 And people will say to you, ‘See there!’ or, ‘See here!’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24 For just as lightning flashes from one part of heaven to another part of heaven, so the Son of man will be in his day. 25 First, however, he must undergo many sufferings and be rejected by this generation. 26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the Flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it occurred in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building. 29 But on the day that Lot went out of Sodʹom, it rained fire and sulfur from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 It will be the same on that day when the Son of man is revealed."


He was addressing the Pharisees. There is a warning.....the "coming" of the Kingdom of God in the first instance, was not to be a striking event. Jesus was baptized as Messiah quietly in the River Jordan by his cousin John. God's spirit descended upon him and a voice was heard from heaven proclaiming Jesus as God's beloved son. Everything was all set for the ministry and sacrificial death of Jesus Christ, and it changed the world forever.

The time of Christ's return however was not going to be a quiet affair. The world would be turned on its ear because of the events that were prophesied to take place at that time. (Matthew 24:3-14) Those who took note of the "sign" that Jesus gave to indicate his return as King, were not left in any doubt. But the world at large didn't understand that something was taking place that required a decision from them. Jesus likened it to the days of Noah before the flood and the days before God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.....the inhabitants on both occasions were not prepared for what came upon them. A warning was sounded by Noah but it was not heeded.....Jesus said it would be the same when he came again.
We are souls of G-d, all of us, spirit of G-d was given to us and that is within us, when we recognise that our I is a part of G-d's I we find the Kingdom, all I need to enter the Kingdom is within I if I take instructions of Christ Jesus.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
Translated another way and given that Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, Jesus said "the Kingdom of God is in your midst"

So the Kingdom of God comes not by observation, but... let's all stop and observe Jesus standing there... even though we aren't supposed to observe...

See the problem?

Look at the Greek...

Strong's 1787: entos
Usage: within, inside, the inside.


Strong's Greek: 1787. ἐντός (entos) -- within, among

That same word is used here...

Matthew 23:26
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also"


...meaning that those wicked Pharisees, (whom Jesus said had hearts far removed from him) were not holding the Kingdom within themselves...

Why not? We are made in God's image.

I have no problem believing that the Kingdom of God is in every Human Being, regardless of who they are or what they believe.

The fact that Jesus used a Pharisee as an example just goes to show how profound the meaning is. Some people are so offended by the Word of God they have to re-translate it to something that doesn't trigger them.

The KJV has it right.

It's the Microcosm...

Luke 11:40
"Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"


Macrocosm/Microcosm

"As without, so within" as some would say.

Human Anatomy is a Key to understanding the Kingdom of God.

Twenty Four Elders = Twenty Four Ribs.

Tabernacle = Cell Biology

Word of God = DNA

Etc.
 

Yokefellow

Active Member
If you understand what the Kingdom of God is, then you can't make that mistake.
How about we let the Word of God tell us in plain English what the Kingdom of God is...

Romans 14:17
"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost"

Where does the Holy Ghost reside? In the Temple Within...

1 Corinthians 6:19
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
We are souls of G-d, all of us, spirit of G-d was given to us and that is within us, when we recognise that our I is a part of G-d's I we find the Kingdom, all I need to enter the Kingdom is within I if I take instructions of Christ Jesus.

I beg to differ...we are not "all souls of God" by a long shot. The "spirit" that God gave to each one of us is our breath as humans when we are born....its the very thing that keeps us alive. "Life" is what God gave us to do with as we please. He has given us options for life and death but he leaves that choice up to us. We are basically choosing our own destiny simply by how we are living this life. It is the righteous who will be rewarded, but God will not allow the wicked to draw breath again.

The Kingdom is an actual government of God....a true Theocracy that will rule this planet once God has disposed of the ones who have no intention of obeying him and who rob others of peace. (Daniel 2:44) It requires a conscious decision on our part to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ and to remain loyal to God despite the challenges to our faith that the devil and his world system bring against us. (1 John 5:19)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
So the Kingdom of God comes not by observation, but... let's all stop and observe Jesus standing there... even though we aren't supposed to observe...

See the problem?

No I see no problem at all. That is a far cry from what it says in the scriptures.....and sorry I am not a fan of the outdated and erroneous KJV.

Look at the Greek...

Strong's 1787: entos
Usage: within, inside, the inside.


Strong's Greek: 1787. ἐντός (entos) -- within, among

That same word is used here...

Matthew 23:26
"Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also"

Yes, it means "inside" the cup and the platter which was filthy. They cleansed only their outward appearance, but as Jesus said they were "like whitewashed graves, full of every sort of uncleanness".....he was addressing the Pharisees as a group.


Why not? We are made in God's image.

I have no problem believing that the Kingdom of God is in every Human Being, regardless of who they are or what they believe.

The fact that Jesus used a Pharisee as an example just goes to show how profound the meaning is. Some people are so offended by the Word of God they have to re-translate it to something that doesn't trigger them.

The KJV has it right.

It's the Microcosm...

Luke 11:40
"Ye fools, did not he that made that which is without make that which is within also?"

In context...V 38-42.....
"When he had said this, a Pharisee asked him to dine with him. So he went in and reclined at the table. 38 However, the Pharisee was surprised at seeing that he did not first wash before the dinner. But the Lord said to him: “Now you Pharisees, you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside you are full of greediness and wickedness. 40 Unreasonable ones! The one who made the outside made also the inside, did he not? 41 But give as gifts of mercy the things that are from within, and look! everything about you will be clean. 42 But woe to you Pharisees, because you give the tenth of the mint and of the rue and of every other garden herb, but you disregard the justice and the love of God! These things you were under obligation to do, but not to disregard those other things."

You cannot pluck a verse out of context like that to prove anything. In context this passage does not covey the meaning you have given it. Jesus was castigating the Pharisees for their failures.

Macrocosm/Microcosm

"As without, so within" as some would say.

Human Anatomy is a Key to understanding the Kingdom of God.

Twenty Four Elders = Twenty Four Ribs.

Tabernacle = Cell Biology

Word of God = DNA

Etc.

If you want to believe that...go ahead....it means nothing to me.
 
Last edited:

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
How about we let the Word of God tell us in plain English what the Kingdom of God is...

Romans 14:17
"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost"

Where does the Holy Ghost reside? In the Temple Within...

1 Corinthians 6:19
"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?"

There is no such thing as a Holy Ghost. :facepalm:

The word "ghost" is not in original scripture at all. It is a German word "geist" added later to the KJV, which means "spirit".

God's holy spirit is that which anoints the elect who will rule with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom. God's spirit is in them as their guiding and directing force.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
I beg to differ...we are not "all souls of God" by a long shot. The "spirit" that God gave to each one of us is our breath as humans when we are born....its the very thing that keeps us alive. "Life" is what God gave us to do with as we please. He has given us options for life and death but he leaves that choice up to us. We are basically choosing our own destiny simply by how we are living this life. It is the righteous who will be rewarded, but God will not allow the wicked to draw breath again.

The Kingdom is an actual government of God....a true Theocracy that will rule this planet once God has disposed of the ones who have no intention of obeying him and who rob others of peace. (Daniel 2:44) It requires a conscious decision on our part to obey the teachings of Jesus Christ and to remain loyal to God despite the challenges to our faith that the devil and his world system bring against us. (1 John 5:19)
i do not see the Kingdom existing in any physical type of environment on this plnet. evolution of consciousness will eventually transform humans to whst they were before placement into physical body only much more advenced, capable sharing and be grateful for G-d's care.
Physical body is not good for human spirit but it was necessary as teaching tool for our souls because here true good and evil exist.
 
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