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Heaven vs the Kingdom

where are you going?

  • straight up to heaven

    Votes: 1 20.0%
  • going to the grave and wait for bodily resurrection

    Votes: 3 60.0%
  • thought it was the same place

    Votes: 1 20.0%

  • Total voters
    5

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
even though scripture reports
The Kingdom is NOT of this world
It is within you

and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

So.....which is it?
and where do you think you are going?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
even though scripture reports
The Kingdom is NOT of this world
It is within you

and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

So.....which is it?
and where do you think you are going?
Our individuality does not die only current personality which associated with physicality.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
If a human dies
The souls of the faithful martyrs who died because of their faith go up to heaven
The souls of the sinful unbelievers remain in the grave and are imprisoned until the Day of Resurrection
Ordinary faith man his soul goes to heaven too
The dead burned, the dead drowned and the dead because of the plague. those go to heaven

Those who did not know the truth or heard it wrongly kept their souls suspended until the Day of Judgment to rule God
 

calm

Active Member
Some say the kingdom will be here on this earth
even though scripture reports
The Kingdom is NOT of this world
It is within you

and the Carpenter is alleged to have ascended into heaven

So.....which is it?
and where do you think you are going?
Heaven is the kingdom and there the Jews will go and reign with God over heaven and earth. (1 Peter 1:3-4)So that the prophecy might be fulfilled which God said to Abraham, for God promised him that his seed would reign over the whole earth. These Jews will be called the " chosen ones " they will lose their bodies and live as spirits in heaven.
And heaven, of course, is not of this world but in the world of God.

But the Gentiles will get the earth and will live there forever.(Psalm 37:29) But they will have a body, this body will be the same as Adam's body before he sinned, so immortal. These Gentiles who consist of all the nations of the world are called the "righteous ones".

Revelation 7:1-9:

The Jews:

4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

The Gentiles:

9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Heaven is the kingdom and there the Jews will go and reign with God over heaven and earth. (1 Peter 1:3-4)So that the prophecy might be fulfilled which God said to Abraham, for God promised him that his seed would reign over the whole earth. These Jews will be called the " chosen ones " they will lose their bodies and live as spirits in heaven.
And heaven, of course, is not of this world but in the world of God.

But the Gentiles will get the earth and will live there forever.(Psalm 37:29) But they will have a body, this body will be the same as Adam's body before he sinned, so immortal. These Gentiles who consist of all the nations of the world are called the "righteous ones".

Revelation 7:1-9:

The Jews:

4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

The Gentiles:

Israel, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
It says Israel, not Jews only and from all tribes and peoples and languages in white robes.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
for clarity.....

you will be spirit?
you will be returned to your body?
you will be dust?
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Heaven is the kingdom and there the Jews will go and reign with God over heaven and earth. (1 Peter 1:3-4)So that the prophecy might be fulfilled which God said to Abraham, for God promised him that his seed would reign over the whole earth. These Jews will be called the " chosen ones " they will lose their bodies and live as spirits in heaven.
And heaven, of course, is not of this world but in the world of God.

But the Gentiles will get the earth and will live there forever.(Psalm 37:29) But they will have a body, this body will be the same as Adam's body before he sinned, so immortal. These Gentiles who consist of all the nations of the world are called the "righteous ones".

Revelation 7:1-9:

The Jews:

4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:
5 12,000 from the tribe of Judah were sealed, 12,000 from the tribe of Reuben, 12,000 from the tribe of Gad,
6 12,000 from the tribe of Asher, 12,000 from the tribe of Naphtali, 12,000 from the tribe of Manasseh,
7 12,000 from the tribe of Simeon, 12,000 from the tribe of Levi, 12,000 from the tribe of Issachar,
8 12,000 from the tribe of Zebulun, 12,000 from the tribe of Joseph, 12,000 from the tribe of Benjamin were sealed.

The Gentiles:

9 After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.


What do you know about the sons of Ishmael? They are also descendants of Abraham
Did not God say to Hajar that it is a great nation
In Jewish belief do you think Muslims will go to heaven
Mohammadiyim
 

calm

Active Member
What do you know about the sons of Ishmael? They are also descendants of Abraham
Did not God say to Hajar that it is a great nation
In Jewish belief do you think Muslims will go to heaven
Mohammadiyim
Yes, Ishmael and his children were made to a great people by God and they were blessed. But by the seed Abraham I mean the children of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. And only the chosen children of the 12 tribes of Israel will enter heaven, for so it is written.
 

calm

Active Member
It says Israel, not Jews only .
The 12 tribes of Israel are the Jews. Jacob is the father of the Jews.


"and from all tribes and peoples and languages in white robes"
Yes, and these are the Gentiles.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
The 12 tribes of Israel are the Jews. Jacob is the father of the Jews.


"and from all tribes and peoples and languages in white robes"
Yes, and these are the Gentiles.
a "Jew" means of tribe of tribe of Judah.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
Yes, Ishmael and his children were made to a great people by God and they were blessed. But by the seed Abraham I mean the children of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. And only the chosen children of the 12 tribes of Israel will enter heaven, for so it is written.


Dear brother
Thanks for the reply and I really appreciate it
I love the children of Israel and my most important brothers
I don't want to bother you dude sorry
last question
Is there any verses in the Torah bible or the Gospel that says that heaven will be only for the 12 Jewish tribes of the children of Israel

GOD bless you
amen
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Yes, Ishmael and his children were made to a great people by God and they were blessed. But by the seed Abraham I mean the children of Jacob, the 12 tribes of Israel. And only the chosen children of the 12 tribes of Israel will enter heaven, for so it is written.
Heaven , Pleroma is a complex notion, there divisions of after-Iife that one needed to 'graduate' to enter. E.g . " 2I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows—such a man was caught up to the third heaven".. The third?, how many other heavens? This is good hint that we just do not know it by literally reading the Bible that was purged for consumer.
 

calm

Active Member
a "Jew" means of tribe of tribe of Judah.
Before the Israelites called themselves "Jews" (at least some), they all called themselves "Hebrews".
The term "Jew" itself originated much later.

But where does the term "Jew" come from?
After the settlement of Canaan, the tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levi founded the Southern Kingdom of Judah, the other nine tribes formed the northern kingdom of Israel.
The northern kingdom was later conquered and wiped out by the Assyrians, but the southern kingdom remained. And after that time Judah became the province Judea, and they others started calling the inhabitants "Jews", which means "Worshippers of God".
The term "Jew" was therefore only a term for the living Hebrews in Judah. So it doesn't matter if I say Hebrew, Jew or Israelite, all are the same. The 12 tribes of Israel have the same Father and the same faith.
They all are Hebrews / Israelites / Jews.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Before the Israelites called themselves "Jews" (at least some), they all called themselves "Hebrews".
The term "Jew" itself originated much later.

But where does the term "Jew" come from?
After the settlement of Canaan, the tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levi founded the Southern Kingdom of Judah, the other nine tribes formed the northern kingdom of Israel.
The northern kingdom was later conquered and wiped out by the Assyrians, but the southern kingdom remained. And after that time Judah became the province Judea, and they others started calling the inhabitants "Jews", which means "Worshippers of God".
The term "Jew" was therefore only a term for the living Hebrews in Judah. So it doesn't matter if I say Hebrew, Jew or Israelite, all are the same. The 12 tribes of Israel have the same Father and the same faith. They are Hebrews / Israelites / Jews.
Hebrews is genetic name, Israelites is spiritual name that means 'those who see G-d', it is not genetic.
 

leov

Well-Known Member
And here I always thought that Iranian eschatology made them batsh*t crazy.
"And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy."
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Before the Israelites called themselves "Jews" (at least some), they all called themselves "Hebrews".
The term "Jew" itself originated much later.

But where does the term "Jew" come from?
After the settlement of Canaan, the tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levi founded the Southern Kingdom of Judah, the other nine tribes formed the northern kingdom of Israel.
The northern kingdom was later conquered and wiped out by the Assyrians, but the southern kingdom remained. And after that time Judah became the province Judea, and they others started calling the inhabitants "Jews", which means "Worshippers of God".
The term "Jew" was therefore only a term for the living Hebrews in Judah. So it doesn't matter if I say Hebrew, Jew or Israelite, all are the same. The 12 tribes of Israel have the same Father and the same faith.
They all are Hebrews / Israelites / Jews.


They were a Canaanite tribe that had NO land. They worshiped the Canaanite pantheon. They borrowed a lot from the Ugaritic texts on the northcoast of Syria at Ras Shamra.

Archaeologist have unearthed a large city near Haifa .. 164 acres from 4,000 BC.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Before the Israelites called themselves "Jews" (at least some), they all called themselves "Hebrews".
The term "Jew" itself originated much later.

But where does the term "Jew" come from?
After the settlement of Canaan, the tribes of Benjamin, Judah, and Levi founded the Southern Kingdom of Judah, the other nine tribes formed the northern kingdom of Israel.
The northern kingdom was later conquered and wiped out by the Assyrians, but the southern kingdom remained. And after that time Judah became the province Judea, and they others started calling the inhabitants "Jews", which means "Worshippers of God".
The term "Jew" was therefore only a term for the living Hebrews in Judah. So it doesn't matter if I say Hebrew, Jew or Israelite, all are the same. The 12 tribes of Israel have the same Father and the same faith.
They all are Hebrews / Israelites / Jews.


They were a Canaanite tribe that had NO land. They worshiped the Canaanite pantheon. They borrowed a lot from the Ugaritic texts on the northcoast of Syria at Ras Shamra.

Archaeologist have unearthed a large city near Haifa .. 164 acres from 4,000 BC.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
"And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced exceedingly with great joy."

There were NO "Inns"..
 
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