Reincarnation?

Apocolypse said:

Brass buttons don't work in shops , try another tree to ..... up

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?

syo said:

?

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You probably better not asking really , there is nothing I can tell you.

Apocolypse said:

You probably better not asking really , there is nothing I can tell you.

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ok

syo said:

ok

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Lots of fake people online these days trying to protect their fakeness .

Apocolypse said:

Lots of fake people online these days trying to protect their fakeness .

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online eh? online we can only write.

Among the world religions we can see that reincarnation is a common thought.

Hinduism
Yes, they focus a lot on reincarnation.

Buddhism
Same answer as Hinduism

Judaism
Yes, especially in Kabbalah (esoteric Judaism)

Christianity
There are some hints in New Testament about it which shows that people then believes in reincarnation. Many churches don't officially believe in it but more and more Christians seem to believe in it. They have hints from NT to rely on. There are less hints in Old Testament though.

Islam
I have not yet found anything in Islam that supports the idea of reincarnation. It's possible there is something somewhere but it's nothing I can remember. But at this moment I would say they don't believe in reincarnation in Islam. If someone knows this better, please prove me wrong.

It is a definite possibility but unless we define the process by which such reincarnation takes place, I don't see if anyone can ever derive a logical proof (if such a proof even exists, which is doubtful)

Apocolypse said:

Possible?

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Yes.

At the heart of that question for me is "What is incarnation?"

Was there ever a time when no evil existed?

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Of Course. The cycles of creation and dissolution : There are long periods of time when Brahman' has absorbed all creation and only the Pure Consciousness or the Absolute remains (Chaitanya). After the long pralay period , where everyone enjoys heaven or rest or dormancy as the case may be, a new cycle or creation begins.

Moz said:

Also was there a beginning to the cycle?

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Time is an arrow endless on both sides. AnAdi-ananta.

it's like the Yin and yang symbol.... it seems that evil is a natural part of the cosmic order in these philosophies, you can't have one without the other. I come at this from a biblical perspective so my concepts of good and evil may differ. By evil i mean malevolence i suppose.

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Before good -evil comes Spirit - Matter. Purush - PrakRuti.
This is more scientific than a view. It is more of a phenomenon rather than a restrictive window of time beyond which some religions do not want to see - which is fine.

What gives rise to malevolence? That has to be understood. Simply not looking beyond the window of time I made for myself, will not answer that. It is not like God tossed the malevolence in the mix. The system is running. We are given our fare share of free will to do our best.

The 3 modes of material nature - (i) goodness (ii) passion (iii) ignorance are present in various proportions in all entities of matter. Even rocks.
It is up to us humans to increase the level of goodness in our own minds, to make our minds pure.

Malevolence = high degrees of ignorance + passion with practically no goodness. When that happens, an "evil" creature, group, concept, idea or undercurrent tendency shows up. They had the ability to work on goodness, but wanted to work on ignorance and passion for selfish cruelty.
Can we justify every evil that happens in the world? Why do humans behave the way they do? They are given minds, and discriminatory intellects, but erroneous thinking gives rise to the ego.

If there is a single sentient creature suffering anywhere in creation then the system is busted in my estimation.

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Suffering has 3 causes (i) adhyAtmic -- our own mind causes us to suffer owing to ignorance of what is what.
(ii) adhibhautik -- environmental phenomena - floods, disasters, diseases (iii) adhidaivik -- fate and circumstance -- but there are no loopholes in that. A part of fate is consequence.

So, acc. to you, a new earth, new paradise will exist forever with eternal humans? By law of nature, the earth is just a planet, it has to go away one day gazillion yrs later. Our Sun is a star , it has a life, and has to transform into something else eventually.

Whatever is born (manifests) has to die (unmanifest). So be the unborn.

They were put here to experience evil or to struggle against evil to illuminate the good within or something along those lines ... is that close. A clarification if i am way off base would be appreciated i want to understand this stuff at least conceptually.
Sorry if there's a lot there please answer any points you wish it all helps.

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"They were put here..." well what if I say the molecules in your morning coffee, the molecules in your car tires, are suffering. They were put here to struggle against evil, hot water, pot holes, and illuminate the good within.

What comes here , as far as living beings go, is driven by the seed of karma (action) and vAsanA (desire).
Desire to experience intelligent life gave rise to a human, their life did mot turn out the way they wanted, they had desires left over, so they were given another birth to do what they couldn't.

I am also curious about the mathematics and why the billions of extra humans in the last 50 years or so and if this gets expanded into an interplanetary enterprise backwards into an endless past.

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They were previously other forms that evolved OR entities from other galaxies that developed a strong desire to be human. Plus of course, the planet became more conducive to human life, medicines and surgeries, cures, helped them live longer.

We do not know about the origins of their seed of desire -- it is said that karma is anAdi -- beginingless, and what the Hindu Dharma is doing is answering questions - not supplying a world view.

The focus is on best harm-free life, care about and love others, give happiness and assure safety,, and liberation from birth-death.
It is a life-long study and cannot be explained fully in a forum.

ameyAtmA said:

Of Course. The cycles of creation and dissolution : There are long periods of time when Brahman' has absorbed all creation and only the Pure Consciousness or the Absolute remains (Chaitanya). After the long pralay period , where everyone enjoys heaven or rest or dormancy as the case may be, a new cycle or creation begins.


Time is an arrow endless on both sides. AnAdi-ananta.



Before good -evil comes Spirit - Matter. Purush - PrakRuti.
This is more scientific than a view. It is more of a phenomenon rather than a restrictive window of time beyond which some religions do not want to see - which is fine.

What gives rise to malevolence? That has to be understood. Simply not looking beyond the window of time I made for myself, will not answer that. It is not like God tossed the malevolence in the mix. The system is running. We are given our fare share of free will to do our best.

The 3 modes of material nature - (i) goodness (ii) passion (iii) ignorance are present in various proportions in all entities of matter. Even rocks.
It is up to us humans to increase the level of goodness in our own minds, to make our minds pure.

Malevolence = high degrees of ignorance + passion with practically no goodness. When that happens, an "evil" creature, group, concept, idea or undercurrent tendency shows up. They had the ability to work on goodness, but wanted to work on ignorance and passion for selfish cruelty.
Can we justify every evil that happens in the world? Why do humans behave the way they do? They are given minds, and discriminatory intellects, but erroneous thinking gives rise to the ego.


Suffering has 3 causes (i) adhyAtmic -- our own mind causes us to suffer owing to ignorance of what is what.
(ii) adhibhautik -- environmental phenomena - floods, disasters, diseases (iii) adhidaivik -- fate and circumstance -- but there are no loopholes in that. A part of fate is consequence.

So, acc. to you, a new earth, new paradise will exist forever with eternal humans? By law of nature, the earth is just a planet, it has to go away one day gazillion yrs later. Our Sun is a star , it has a life, and has to transform into something else eventually.

Whatever is born (manifests) has to die (unmanifest). So be the unborn.



"They were put here..." well what if I say the molecules in your morning coffee, the molecules in your car tires, are suffering. They were put here to struggle against evil, hot water, pot holes, and illuminate the good within.

What comes here , as far as living beings go, is driven by the seed of karma (action) and vAsanA (desire).
It is desire to fly that gives rise to a bird-body that flies, not because God wanted to create a bird. See the difference? Who is experiencing the flying in this case? That is what Hindu dharma teaches or helps an individual answer.
Now this flying creature forgot who they were and is now attached to the body , wings, and is having a lot of fun flying in the sky. Then it faces danger from other animals and learns. It adapts to environments, and winged dinosaurs evolve into winged birds -- ah this is much lighter.
The previous main frames were too much. The tower PC ... still heavy. The thin touch-pad is so much lighter! Wow.....oh no but it is so hard to see and type on that screen..... do you see what is happening?


They were previously other forms that evolved OR entities from other galaxies that developed a strong desire to be human. We do not know about the origins of their seed of desire -- it is said that karma is anAdi -- beginingless, and what the Hindu Dharma is doing is answering questions - not supplying a world view.

The focus is on best harm-free life, care about and love others, give happiness and assure safety,, and liberation from birth-death.
It is a life-long study and cannot be explained fully in a forum.

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Hi

Thanks ,what a great response.
I don't want to hijack the thread or get into anything contentious but if possible at little clarification on a couple of points.
The cycles of creation and dissolution : There are long periods of time when Brahman' has absorbed all creation and only the Pure Consciousness or the Absolute remains (Chaitanya). After the long pralay period , where everyone enjoys heaven or rest or dormancy as the case may be, a new cycle or creation begins.

Is this cycle a cycle of Universes. I am not quite sure what this means as later you say Time is an arrow endless on both sides. AnAdi-ananta. If we go endlessly backwards do we get to a singularity as the cosmological model seems to suggest, is this the absorption of all creation and then a new Universe is spawned. And before the singularity there was a previous Universe going and the cycle goes backwards eternally as well.

See I am not sure how we get to a place in this Universe where the concept of Brahman' has absorbed all creation is possible. Universal expansion seems to be pretty established so the idea that it all contracts back into some sort of pure state again doesn't fit as far as i can tell. Am i being to literal in looking at the mechanics of how this would all work. I can see ways to do the excercise in my head but they all require the physical Universe to be something very different to the accepted model we have today. Which is cool if that's how it is.
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Pure Consciousness or the Absolute remains (Chaitanya).
The pure consciousness... is it wholly good or is it the Yin/yang concept where it is good and evil in perfect balance?This is my christian bias at work i suppose. The idea of GOD being GOOD and the absolute opposite of Evil is pretty deeply ingrained in me and it also makes a lot of sense to me.
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It is not like God tossed the malevolence in the mix.
Forgive me if i'm being dumb here i am just not understanding the origins of Evil. If there is no malevolence then the system doesn't have anything to drive it. Which is why i keep referring back to the Yin yang dichotomy which seems to be necessary to the system and not an aberration.

I am also not sure why in this system souls are generated in a condition where they make bad choices and have to learn through multiple lives how to be better. The Biblical explanation is the exact opposite. Created Perfect and then the fall, an appointed time for the rebellion to play out ,and then the restitution of perfection and the end of malevolence.
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So, acc. to you, a new earth, new paradise will exist forever with eternal humans? By law of nature, the earth is just a planet, it has to go away one day gazillion yrs later. Our Sun is a star , it has a life, and has to transform into something else eventually.

All good points. And to be perfectly honest they are not points that are addressed in scripture. The Bible is annoyingly vague on events that fall outside the current human drama. However there are hints and suggestions that can be reasoned on in the context of what has been revealed that can address the issues to some degree. It is a big Universe and i personally do not think it was made for nothing. I, and this is personal opinion only, think the Universe will eventually be fully "colonised".

Whatever is born (manifests) has to die (unmanifest). So be the unborn.
This is just a trick of semantics really. We BOTH believe that whatever the real YOU is it has the potential of everlasting existence or immorality. It's just that while you wear many bodies i wear one but at the end of the day BOTH views are the same at some level.

Your body replaces every single cell in a 7 year cycle or something like that, for "some reason" your cells begin to be replaced by cells not quite as robust or whatever and we age. Run the cycle over and over and we become non functioning. Death is not a biological necessity.
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Now this flying creature forgot who they were and is now attached to the body , wings, and is having a lot of fun flying in the sky. Then it faces danger from other animals and learns. It adapts to environments, and winged dinosaurs evolve into winged birds -- ah this is much lighter.

I am struggling with this. Unless you want to give these creatures the label of self conscious beings then it can't work can it. And tying evolution into the process just muddies the waters even more. Evolution robs the individual of agency. Behaviour is driven by biology not by choice in the evolutionary model. ALL birds behave the same because of biological instinct, it learns nothing in the sense of the individual the only "learning" is done at the biological group level.
I love my two dogs and i consider them to something special, i can even sometimes imagine them as having some sort of agency but realistically i know that they just do not have developed enough brains to wrestle with any concept deeper than that of a 18 month old baby. Food sleep play.
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It is a life-long study and cannot be explained fully in a forum.
I bet. I know there is a lot up there and it may be a bit of a scattershot collection of queries so please address whatever parts you wish. You don't have to cover it all by any means. It is more the big picture mechanics of it all that i am trying to get straight. I am sure that it be can very theological at the deeper level and i will get lost very quickly.

Much Peace.

Apocolypse said:

Possible?

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One of the false techniques that liars will do at the end of time
It will be the physical reproduction Reincarnate of humans
There is an hadith for Prophet Muhammad said
The Antichrist will revive your dead father or mother physically, but he will not be able to bring their original spirits. He will put a demonic (devil) sex talking like your father or mother.

the spirit in which it will be is not the true spirit of the original human being but a demon (devil) spirit

From there you can Reincarnate the material but not the soul or spirits

If it is a human attempt by vaccination of pregnancy, it will be another spirit from God

not same which is that gon

Apocolypse said:

Possible?

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Of course.

Ciao

- viole