Is it Possible to Prove Being the Messiah?

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

wizanda said:
Claiming to be the Messiah, and return of David/Yeshua/Zion validates the understanding to speak on our religious texts before the imminent destruction of mankind.

This thread is about if everyone will argue, and since that is generally the case, it won't get anywhere, and as prophesied the Messiah comes in secret before the end (Revelation 16:15-16).

If it was possible to educate mankind, there would have been no point in Yeshua establishing the Snare (Isaiah 8, Zechariah 5, Isaiah 28:9-19), and Moses placing the Curse (Deuteronomy 28) to catch out all the hypocrites.

In my opinion.

Moses is a literary device.. He's fictional like the Exodus.

LuisDantas · Oct 5, 2019

wizanda said:
We have numerous religious textual references, and ideas to backup the idea of who is the Messiah; yet as we see with Yeshua's fulfilment of prophecy, some people will go against it through a lack of study...

So is it ever really possible to actually prove it for sure using careful exegesis or are people to argumentative to really listen?

In my opinion.

Personally, I don't think that it would be at all possible to convince me except perhaps by showing supernaturally high levels of compassion, wisdom and presence. I would pay no attention whatsoever to any scripture or other texts.

wizanda · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
Read all of Isaiah

Each 'Servant' in Isaiah is specific by a word next to it, so 'my servant Jacob', 'my servant David', 'my servant Israel'; Isaiah 52:13-14 would be ambiguous if it wasn't that it is paraphrasing Psalms 89:19-21.

So to say Isaiah is wrong about his contextual paraphrasing, as some Jews have made up a narrative of Servant Songs, doesn't make any sense sorry.

In my opinion.

Mindmaster · Oct 5, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
Embalmed? unembalmed? or does it matter?

For a true messiah this should be a trivial task, so either should be possible, lol.

firedragon · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
Gog and Magog already happened.. I think it was 600 years before the birth of Christ.

Yeah, Here... some even stayed behind and built a city near the Decapolis.

In approximately 624 B.C., the Scythians launched a massive invasion to the south, and occupied Asia Minor, Syria, Media, Palestine and much of Assyria. They conquered as far south as Egypt, but spared that nation when the Egyptians offered them tribute money.

Sis. That is a turn of the Josephus thought but does not really have historical evidence that they were called Magogia. And all in all, just because a greek called them by a derogatory term does not make it an eschatological event. You made this statement as if you were 100% sure about them.

Notthedarkweb · Oct 5, 2019

I don't know if anyone has posted this yet, and I don't want to inflame anything but the Mamonidical definition of a messiah would be 1. He who restores Israel (I assume this is a metaphorical masculinity as opposed to a corporeal gender identity, since pre-Rabbinical Judaism considered anyone who had protected Israel from enemies successfully to be a Messiah), 2.) Shall rebuild the Temple (this excludes Jesus from being a Messiah, of course, unless the Temple is for whatever reason restored by him during the any hypothetical second coming), and 3.) Will defend Israel and Judaism from attack.

I am not certain how many Jews follow Mamonides in messianic theology but I am pretty certain he has had a major influence on Modern Orthodox strands.

Of course, all this being contingent on the validity of a Jewish interpretation of the Messiah bypassing the Christ and other Prophets.

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

firedragon said:
Sis. That is a turn of the Josephus thought but does not really have historical evidence that they were called Magogia. And all in all, just because a greek called them by a derogatory term does not make it an eschatological event. You made this statement as if you were 100% sure about them.

Gog was a man's name from Magog (or vice versa) They were the Scythians,

The 1st-century Jewish historian Josephus identified the Gog and Magog people as Scythians, horse-riding barbarians from around the Don and the Sea of Azov. Josephus recounts the tradition that Gog and Magog were locked up by Alexander the Great behind iron gates in the "Caspian Mountains", generally identified with the Caucasus Mountains. This legend must have been current in contemporary Jewish circles by this period, coinciding with the beginning of the Christian Era.

500 BC

firedragon · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
Gog was a man's name from Magog (or vice versa) They were the Scythians,

The 1st-century Jewish historian Josephus identified the Gog and Magog people as Scythians, horse-riding barbarians from around the Don and the Sea of Azov. Josephus recounts the tradition that Gog and Magog were locked up by Alexander the Great behind iron gates in the "Caspian Mountains", generally identified with the Caucasus Mountains. This legend must have been current in contemporary Jewish circles by this period, coinciding with the beginning of the Christian Era.

500 BC

Sis. You just repeated what I said. It was Josephus.

This is what Josephus says: "For Gomer founded those whom the Greeks now call Galatians, but were then called Gomerites. Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians."

If that statement is enough for you to be so certain it seems like a huge leap of faith. But then again, this is all considered faith so its your prerogative.

Peace.

Mindmaster · Oct 5, 2019

wizanda said:
The idea the Messiah is God incarnate is idolatrous.

The Bible is badly translated because the Jews after Babylon didn't understand that El (God) is not like the Elohim (Divine Beings) - Isaiah 46:9.

So the Sanhedrin got confused with what Yeshua Elohim was saying, they thought he was claiming to be God, when he was stating he is an Archangel.

In my opinion.

The idea that someone claims to be a Messiah is attempting to usurp God by proxy isn't irrational, in fact, it's probably the truth in every case.

MonkeyFire · Oct 5, 2019

You couldn't prove Jesus exist without him allowing it. The messiah knows who he is and will make himself known when the time is right.

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

firedragon said:
Sis. You just repeated what I said. It was Josephus.

This is what Josephus says: "For Gomer founded those whom the Greeks now call Galatians, but were then called Gomerites. Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians."

If that statement is enough for you to be so certain it seems like a huge leap of faith. But then again, this is all considered faith so its your prerogative.

Peace.

We know they invaded circa 6th century BC and Josephus considered the Scythians to be Gog and Magog. That's about all we got.

Surely you don't think they are modern day Russia like Hal Lindsey???

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

MonkeyFire said:
You couldn't prove Jesus exist without him allowing it. The messiah knows who he is and will make himself known when the time is right.

Scofield dispensationalist?

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

wizanda said:
Each 'Servant' in Isaiah is specific by a word next to it, so 'my servant Jacob', 'my servant David', 'my servant Israel'; Isaiah 52:13-14 would be ambiguous if it wasn't that it is paraphrasing Psalms 89:19-21.

So to say Isaiah is wrong about his contextual paraphrasing, as some Jews have made up a narrative of Servant Songs, doesn't make any sense sorry.

In my opinion.

LOLOL.. You are cribbing Jewish scripture and trying to reinvent it to mean Jesus. It doesn't .. Just like Hosea 3 isn't talking about Jesus. Is your faith so weak that you have to cheat?

wizanda · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
Is your faith so weak that you have to cheat?

Guess you didn't get that I've got the New Name of Christ (Sananda) here before the Great Tribulation; thus when I'm saying David reincarnated as Yeshua, I'm talking about me.

My own religion is based on complex mathematics given to me by the Source of reality; trying to explain the context of your religious texts books, is for your benefits to fulfil prophecy before the End.

sooda said:
You are cribbing Jewish scripture and trying to reinvent it to mean Jesus.

wizanda said:
The Hebraic texts all contain Yeshua, and Yehoshua, this is the whole point in the Bible, and it warns this will happen that they will reject Yeshua (Salvation - Deuteronomy 32:15).

H3444 (Yeshua) + H1961 (To become) = Exodus 15:2, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2 (2 Samuel 10:11 David Vs Ammon) +5 Verses Isaiah

H3444 (Yeshua) + H7200 (To see) = Exodus 14:13, Psalms 98:3, Isaiah 52:10 (2 Chronicles 20:17 Jehoshaphat Vs Ammon)

Concept of Yeshua (Salvation) in the Bible
So Moses separated the Red Sea in Exodus 14:13, and we saw the Salvation of God interact with mankind.

Then Moses creates a Song in Exodus 15:2 that the Lord will become our Salvation; this is continued by David in Psalm 118 where the Builders reject the Chief Corner Stone, not understanding the depths of prophecy.

The Lord promised David he would become our Salvation if the Children of Ammon were too strong (2 Samuel 10:11), and then fought them with Jehoshaphat (2 Chronicles 20:17).

When the Lord appoints David as a chosen vessel in Psalms 89:19-21, this is paraphrased in Isaiah 52:13-14 (it has been badly translated, it should say anointed, not marred); where the Spirit of Salvation is put into him in Isaiah 52:10-12.

Evolution of Yehoshua

Moses changed his friend's name Hosea (Deliverer/Savoir) son of Nun to Yehoshua, which changes it to Shall Deliver or the Lord Saves.

In Exodus 23:20-23 the Lord states he will put his title on his messenger, who has the power to forgive sin, and shall remove the false theologies from the land.

In Joshua 3:10 we see that Yehoshua starts the process of removing the false gods, and that the name then become symbolic of the promise made.

After the Babylonian Exile we see that Yehoshua son of Yehozadek led the people back.

So when we have the name Yehoshua, this is why it says, "he shall save his people" (Matthew 1:21), as it all fits with the Tanakh.

jesus being a false Christ
Sus in Hebrew is the word Grub (H5580) or a Horse (H5483), an untrained animal, i.e. a Beast.

If we add a Yod at the start of a word, it makes it shall be, so J+Sus = Shall be a Beast.

The Strongs reference number amazingly for false christs - pseudochristos is G5580.

In my opinion.

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

wizanda said:
Guess you didn't get that I've got the New Name of Christ (Sananda) here before the Great Tribulation; thus when I'm saying David reincarnated as Yeshua, I'm talking about me.

My own religion is based on complex mathematics given to me by the Source of reality; trying to explain the context of your religious texts books, is for your benefits to fulfil prophecy before the End.

In my opinion.

LOLOLOL... Ok.. so you have your own religion .. Are you also the messiah?

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation.

Jeshurun is just a poetic name for Israel.

firedragon · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
We know they invaded circa 6th century BC and Josephus considered the Scythians to be Gog and Magog. That's about all we got.

Surely you don't think they are modern day Russia like Hal Lindsey???

Josephus DID NOT consider Scythianns to be Gog and Magog. He mentions that a man called Magog founded Scythians as the Greeks referred to them and he calls them magogites because the founder was called Magog. He does not allude that they are Gog and Magog. He doesn't even mention the word Gog. I gave you the quotation, cut and pasted it and still you have not read it or completely misrepresented it.

It was very well known that people called Magnus were called Magog like the king of Sweden who was called Magog and another historian mentions him. Thus, do you make the case that the Swedish people are Magog's?

sooda · Oct 5, 2019

firedragon said:
Josephus DID NOT consider Scythianns to be Gog and Magog. He mentions that a man called Magog founded Scythians as the Greeks referred to them and he calls them magogites because the founder was called Magog. He does not allude that they are Gog and Magog. He doesn't even mention the word Gog. I gave you the quotation, cut and pasted it and still you have not read it or completely misrepresented it.

It was very well known that people called Magnus were called Magog like the king of Sweden who was called Magog and another historian mentions him. Thus, do you make the case that the Swedish people are Magog's?

This goes into all the variations..

Gog and Magog | religion and mythology | Britannica.com
www.britannica.com/topic/Gog
Gog and Magog. In 1 Chronicles 5:4 ( see Chronicles, books of the ), Gog is identified as a descendant of the prophet Joel, and in Ezekiel 38–39, he is the chief prince of the tribes of Meshech and Tubal in the land of Magog, who is called upon by God to conquer the land of Israel. With a great coalition of forces from throughout the world,...

wizanda · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
LOLOLOL... Ok..

Isaiah 28:22 Now therefore don’t be scoffers, lest your bonds be made strong; for I have heard a decree of destruction from the Lord, Yahweh of Armies, on the whole earth.

sooda said:
so you have your own religion

I helped in the authorship of many of the world's religions, and know lots of the souls personally.

I want to clarify global theology, and create world peace, as currently lots of things are misunderstood, and having seen Heaven in a NDE, and being sent from there, I do have an advantage of defining it based on first hand experience.

sooda said:
Are you also the messiah?

With careful exegesis it is provable, yet you'd need to study what is being discussed to even comprehend the complexities, as you're already overlooking Yeshua throughout the Tanakh, and that is more simplistic.

In my opinion.

firedragon · Oct 5, 2019

sooda said:
This goes into all the variations..

Gog and Magog | religion and mythology | Britannica.com
www.britannica.com/topic/Gog
Gog and Magog. In 1 Chronicles 5:4 ( see Chronicles, books of the ), Gog is identified as a descendant of the prophet Joel, and in Ezekiel 38–39, he is the chief prince of the tribes of Meshech and Tubal in the land of Magog, who is called upon by God to conquer the land of Israel. With a great coalition of forces from throughout the world,...

Cheers.

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