Why do some people seem to be unable

The reason I asked the Question in OP is that if a person holds anger or none forgiveness when something happens, it is themself who will suffer even more then the one who did the wrongdoingin the first place.

As soon we understand how to forgive the suffering we hold from past experiences will disappear ,

Amanaki said:

Why does it seem to be so that some people have difficulty forgive others for their mistakes or wrongdoing?
Sometimes it even looks like people get upset if someone forgives others. Why is this?

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People have the mentality that everyone is defined by their bad deeds. Take the priest issue. Not many want to take their child to any of the 99% in the that didn't abuse because their "boss" covered up for those who had.

Instead of forgiving the person the mindset is to accuse. It's also set in Christian worldview. Every one must sacrifice themselves because they abuse defines the abuser.

Forgiving oneself is not enough. Legality aside, one Must suffer for their misdeeds.

It's hard to forgive unless one changes their view from death to life. Punishment to lesson.

It's hard. Not everyone sees it that way and on that note may be take things for granted or blind sighted.

Nonetheless we should forgive regardless if it's directly to others or let them go to ourselves.

Forgiveness doesn't invalidate consequence for action. The above is drastic but you can see it little things. Even on RF.

Thats my two cents.

Amanaki said:

Why does it seem to be so that some people have difficulty forgive others for their mistakes or wrongdoing?
Sometimes it even looks like people get upset if someone forgives others. Why is this?

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The concept of old souls and young souls is the best explanation for me. There are so many corollary questions:

Why do some people just seem to understand stuff, almost immediately?
Why do some people seem to have no conscience?
Why do some people never get upset?

Amanaki said:

Why does it seem to be so that some people have difficulty forgive others for their mistakes or wrongdoing?
Sometimes it even looks like people get upset if someone forgives others. Why is this?

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because the person sees self as a victim. they are in survival mode.


its the feeling that one has lost control.


https://roseninstitute.com/8-signs-youre-survival-mode-step-escaping/

Amanaki said:

1. Why does it seem to be so that some people have difficulty forgive others for their mistakes or wrongdoing?
2. Sometimes it even looks like people get upset if someone forgives others. Why is this?

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My random observations and thoughts:

re: Your #1.

• IMO, all mistakes are wrongdoing. But all wrongdoings are NOT mistakes: some are and some are not.
• Differences of opinion are the breeding ground of offense.
• Differences of opinion can be either: irreconcilable, partially reconcilable, or reconcilable.

• In the table above, I separated "offenses" into 9 categories. Note: #7, #8, and #9 are not offenses that occur in RF, as a general rule.
• #1, #2, and #3, IMO, also are not offenses that occur here in RF.
• #4, #5, and #6 occur frequently, here in RF, and (hopefully) less frequently in daily life.
• NOTE: Again, the table above is speculative, i.e. my opinion.
• My "Frequency of offense" list is something I arrived at many years ago, and I've never found sufficient reason to modify it.
• Obviously (I hope), if no one offends me, I never have a need to forgive, right?
• Each time I am offended, I am presented with an opportunity to forgive or not to forgive.
  • A #1 offense is the easiest to forgive. A #9 offense is harder to forgive.
  • A one-time, accidental offense is easier to forgive than an "every encounter, intentional" offense.

Re: Your #2.

• I have to think about that some more.

Amanaki said:

Why does it seem to be so that some people have difficulty forgive others for their mistakes or wrongdoing?
Sometimes it even looks like people get upset if someone forgives others. Why is this?

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Nature is indifferent like that. Sometimes those feelings are Justified sometimes they're not.

Amanaki said:

Why does it seem to be so that some people have difficulty forgive others for their mistakes or wrongdoing?

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I think largely because they tend to think that admitting making a mistake makes them look "smaller". My own father was that way, and all his life he suffered from what's called an "inferiority complex". I had one as well but eventually outgrew it-- obviously.

A Vestigial Mote said:

Do they deserve the forgiveness? Did they learn something from their trespass and vow not to do it again? Or are they simply going to go on about their lives, potentially committing the same wrong over and over and over again to people in their lives?

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Nakosis said:

Don't know about feeling sublime but I see it was a waste of time and energy holding a grudge against other folks. I've better things to do.

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"Holding a grudge" is a lot more severe than simply making a mental note that the other person may engage in behaviors you don't feel like dealing with, and avoiding situations with them for that reason.

I would submit that we all do this, whether we realize or admit to it or not. You make mental notes about a person's character, and you assess future interactions with them taking into account those past experiences. This is not "holding a grudge" and yet it is a perfectly practical way in which not simply "forgiving" someone can pay off. The pay off is not letting bad history repeat itself.

metis said:

I think largely because they tend to think that admitting making a mistake makes them look "smaller". My own father was that way, and all his life he suffered from what's called an "inferiority complex". I had one as well but eventually outgrew it-- obviously.

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To be afraid of "losing face" is very common i think. But in my own experience, I noticed that, when forgiving someone for something did toward me or toward someone i cared about, it feels better from within, because we do not hold any anger toward anyone or anything.

A Vestigial Mote said:

"Holding a grudge" is a lot more severe than simply making a mental note that the other person may engage in behaviors you don't feel like dealing with, and avoiding situations with them for that reason.

I would submit that we all do this, whether we realize or admit to it or not. You make mental notes about a person's character, and you assess future interactions with them taking into account those past experiences. This is not "holding a grudge" and yet it is a perfectly practical way in which not simply "forgiving" someone can pay off. The pay off is not letting bad history repeat itself.

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Sure, I learn to whatever, not be as trusting, cover my own backside. I take steps to deal better in any future interactions. If someone steals from me I expect them to try a steal from me again.

Sure the first time, yeah maybe I was ignorant. The second time, I see as a failure on my part for not learning my lesson the first time.

Amanaki said:

Can not anger be let go of? It's in the past already, can not change what happend.

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Because often the past continues to have long lasting effects. It's easy to be dismissive of other people's anger and pain when you're not the one who experienced the damage or loss.

For 29 years, while my mother-in-law was alive, I was required to interact and/or be around my wife's oldest brother and his family. My brother-in-law never offended me face-to-face, but he actively insulted me and my wife (his sister) when we were not around. Others would tell us what he was saying, and as his children reached adulthood, they became bolder in insulting me. For 29 years, I bit my tongue to keep peace and to not upset my mother-in-law, even when, in her last years, he insulted her. [My wife and I had lived next-door to her parents 23 years.]

My father-in-law passed away in 2004, and my mother-in-law passed away in 2009. Over the last 10 years before my mother-in-law died and for 8 years after she died, I had occasional night-mares involving my brother-in-law and members of his immediate family. I always awoke with intense anger. When my mother-in-law died, my wife and I never had to see her brother or any of his kids again, but I still had nightmares (about 1 every 9 months or so).

Finally, about 2 years ago, another brother-in-law's daughter died and I went to her funeral. Not surprisingly the first brother-in-law and his wife showed up. I ignored them the whole time. But that brother-in-law could not let me ignore him. He came up to me after about an hour and, smiling big, said: "What, Terry? You don't recognize me?"

I raised my hand, showed him my middle finger, and said: "l'll see you in Hell." He walked away, and I haven't had a bad dream with him in it that has bothered me since.

Father Heathen said:

Because often the past continues to have long lasting effects. It's easy to be dismissive of other people's anger and pain when you're not the one who experienced the damage or loss.

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Let go of the past, that makes it more easy to see that happen then does not affect you now (if you did not let it affect you). But so many are stuck in the past of what happened, that they do not see they live in the present moment.

Amanaki said:

Let go of the past, that makes it more easy to see that happen then does not affect you now (if you did not let it affect you). But so many are stuck in the past of what happened, that they do not see they live in the present moment.

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But in some cases it does affect them now. Like I said, it's easy to dismiss pain and loss when you're not the one who had to experience it. Would you really tell someone suffering from something like PTSD to "just get over it"? Psychology is complex; you can't just switch off feelings.

Nakosis said:

Don't know about feeling sublime but I see it was a waste of time and energy holding a grudge against other folks. I've better things to do.

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That can be okay too.

"The best we can do is forgive." - the Traveling Willsburys.

Nakosis said:

Sure, I learn to whatever, not be as trusting, cover my own backside. I take steps to deal better in any future interactions. If someone steals from me I expect them to try a steal from me again.

Sure the first time, yeah maybe I was ignorant. The second time, I see as a failure on my part for not learning my lesson the first time.

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But don't you see? That second time, that is you admitting that you remember the actions taken by that "other" who may have wronged you the first time. That is you, not willing to "put it in the past." And rightly so! You keep it with you, and you use it as ammunition against being harmed again. If, as some in this thread keep saying, you instead just treated it as "in the past" and "all forgiven" then what case can you make for the thing that walks forward with you and informs you that what happened was "bad?" Isn't it that you haven't forgiven the actual action? It's still there, in memory. And it is out of practicality that it is so. You don't simply forget wrongs against your person. You learn from it, and you do hold "grudges" against the behaviors. Perhaps not the people... but the behaviors, most certainly. That's all memory of a bad situation that keeps you from falling victim again is... a grudge against the behavior.

And all I am saying is that you may "forgive" the person, but if time informs you that they will only continue to perpetrate harmful behaviors, then you carry that knowledge forward with you too. And you avoid that person, or communicate your frustration to them, etc. And you can only really "forgive" if you no longer have to have contact with the person, or they stop performing their misdeeds. If they continually act in manners against your person, then you have to constantly be refreshing the disdain you feel for their behavior, and you continually update your perception of that person to be more and more poor.

Father Heathen said:

But in some cases it does affect them now. Like I said, it's easy to dismiss pain and loss when you're not the one who had to experience it. Would you really tell someone suffering from something like PTSD to "just get over it"? Psychology is complex; you can't just switch off feelings.

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No i would show them compassion and help them thru the situation, I have had PTSD my self after a bus crash some years ago, so I know very well it is not just letting go of a mental issue like that. But it is possible with time. But the example of letting go of anger toward others is fully possible to let go of. it is not done overnight, but it is a progress of working with oneself to see the truth behind every episode we experience

Amanaki said:

Sometimes it even looks like people get upset if someone forgives others. Why is this?

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I didn't reply to this bit, but felt I should after reading back over some replies. I would characterize someone doing this as a very unhealthy behavior. It simply isn't their place to try and force or guilt or pressure someone else into not forgiving someone else. That's just manipulative and irrational in my opinion.

Reasons that they might feel that way, however, would be if they champion a cause, and they want to see "the bad guys" who are the perpetrators against their cause be punished or at least held accountable for their actions. So, when they see someone else "letting them off" by forgiving them, they may feel that this is an injustice against "the cause," because it means that yet another perpetrator got away with what they were doing, and it may even appear that they just got a "free pass" from one of their victims.

Generally I dont have to be sorry, but I do have to forgive things.