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Did Muhammad authored the Quran?

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
G-d claimed that He had authored Quran.

No. The text in the quran claims it is authored by god. And you just believe that.

I can write on a piece of paper a sentence and prefix it "pixies releaved this to me".
And if someone believes that, they could claim that pixies revealed that sentence.
And it would have the same merrit as your statement.


And there is no other revealed scripture who has such claim from G-d.

And that makes it correct?
You consider that valid logic?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I believe the Qu'ran is from God but I am less familiar with historic facts about its origin.

That strikes me as odd....

You say you believe this book's origins is a god, and in the same sentence you say that you aren't familiar with the history of its origins.


Strange indeed.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I think the real answer to this question if anyone sincerely seeks it is that if it was fabricated then it can be reproduced & replicated very easily.

That's a ridiculously dishonest request off course, because who is going to judge this "reproduction" and based on what variables and parameters?
Secondly, what does "reproduce and replicate" even entail? Coming up with the exact same nonsense?

For example: replicate for me the books of Star Wars or Lord of The Rings.
You won't be doing that either me thinks.
So, does that mean these books have divine origins too?

That about 1.7 billion people use the Quran to model their daily lives upon even 1400 years later speaks for itself in my opinion.

The only thing that speaks to, is that there are 1.7 billion people who believe it and 6.3 billion people who don't.

If this were just a man made book then any person today should be able to replicate it

As explained above: this is a nonsensical and dishonest request / challenge

, convince people to sacrifice their lives for its Cause

We have nonsense sects TODAY of which the members happily take their own life for "the cause".
Again, the only thing this speaks to, is that people who hold strong beliefs about anything will be prepared to do stupid things, like sacrifice their lives.

Just like that Iranian woman who set herself on fire because she wasn't allowed in a stadium to watch a soccer match.

and eventually win over kings and nations and establish a worldwide following of billions.

As several, mutually exclusive, religions have done over the course of human history.
So what?

To date the only Ones Who have achieved this influence are Figures like Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and Moses. They arise single handedly, opposed by one and all and despite things like crucifixion, torture, imprisonment and exile, their Cause becomes established all over the world.

So?

We can not deny the influence of the Prophets and Messengers but neither can we replicate Their influence. The majority of the world’s population follows one or another of these Great Beings. And there is only a handful of Them. Krishna, Moses, Buddha, Christ, Zoroaster, Muhammad the Bab and Baha’u’llah being most recent.
And they can't all be correct, as they are mutually exclusive.

If islam is correct, then christianity must be wrong - eventhough there is some overlap (since islam is abrahamic religion 3.0)

It is a phenomenon that cannot be dismissed

It's also a phenomenon that does not, in any way, prove that what the people believe is actually also accurate.

It ONLY proves that people are able to hold beliefs with such passion that they're willing to suffer for it.
And the many many religions of this world, really don't have a monopoly on that either.

Throughout history, people have suffered as a direct result for standing up for what they believed in - regardless of those beliefs being accurate or not.

They claimed to possess a power from God which to me is much more believable than claims I’ve read here saying They were just charismatic.

Only because you already hold theistic beliefs.
Plenty of people claim godly powers. Some of them gain traction and manage to convince people and others don't. How many they are able to convince really isn't of any interest to me.

To say that because someone gathers a sizeable following, what that person claims MUST be accurate, is really nothing but an argument ad populum. Which is a logical fallacy. This is not how one evaluates claims in terms of accuracy.


No one today has seen Jesus or Muhammad yet Their influence is very real as if They were present in the flesh. Their Spirit permeates the universe and influences the entire world even though physically They are not present.

No. Their followers do that.
Jesus has no influence on things. Christians have influence on things.
Mohammed has no influence on things. Muslims have influence on things.

So compose a religion from today’s religions and run with it. Then you’ll get your answer.

Ever heared of scientology?
1 follower in the 1950s.
Millions worldwide in 2019

That's growth rate of millions of %
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
You are fully entitled to your views. My investigation and research to me shows that all the major religions are true and part of an evolving progressive plan to result in the unity of mankind which in this age is achievable and within reach and why a new Revelation from God was revealed by Baha’u’llah to assist in the process of establishing a world civilisation inclusive of all humanity based on human rights and equality.

I have the privilege of believing in things like the oneness of humankind, which is inclusive of all of whatever race, religion and nationality and that includes the non religious or atheist as they are equally as human as the most devout religionist.

All are worthy to be treated with love, respect and unconditional acceptance. And to me that is one of the most beautiful spaces to be in not having to judge, divide or harbour discrimination or hate against anyone for whatever reason.

Religion always teaches good never evil. It is people that disobey religion that bring great evil upon us.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
A couple of views:
Thank you for these. They are worthy of thought.

A lot of the argument seems to be saying that because the Quran talks a lot about stories from the Bible it assumes familiarity. That's fallacious. The Bible talks a lot about the same stories, yet obviously does not assume familiarity.

I thought the example you offered of the laughter of Sarah, which did not name Sarah, was the best example of the point of assumption of familiarity. I will have to think about that one for a while.

Again thank you.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
says who? The Quran did not appear until scores of years had past after his death. What is the name of the scribe who wrote all of this down? If god knew that the prophet could not read or write, why did Gabriela ask him?.Like the bible the Quran cannot be substantiated by any evidence. It is an oral recitation subject to errors, interlopers and forgeries. Now there is a push in the Western world to white wash the original text to please liberal bleeding hearts. That is a mortal sin under Shari law to alter the Quran!
"It is an oral recitation"

It is orally recorded as well as recorded in writing from the day one to our times with absolutely no change whatsoever , both supporting one another . It could be checked easily in any part of the word. Right, please?

Regards

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran. But the story is in the Hadith.

Anyway, the hadith quotes the Quranic verse that explicitly says in the name of God, the generous, the one taught by noon, the pen etc etc. So you said why didnt Gabriel say its from God, but he did. So you have not understood this hadith.

My question is this, let me ask you for the third time. At least now maybe you could give an answer. Please try and not avoid this.

You said that you believe Muhammed was in the cave. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH SO MUCH? DO YOU BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH OR JUST THIS ONE? IF YOU BELIEVE THIS WHY NOT BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH?

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH?
"No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran."

Yes it is not in Quran and Hadith were collected 250/300 years after Muhammad, and Hadith is not valid if it contradicts Quran, for the obvious reason.

Regards
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
"No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran."

Yes it is not in Quran and Hadith were collected 250/300 years after Muhammad, and Hadith is not valid if it contradicts Quran, for the obvious reason.

Regards

Great. If the hadith is not valid, the Mahdi (by name) and return of Jesus etc are all in ahadith.

So whats your point?
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
"No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran."

Yes it is not in Quran and Hadith were collected 250/300 years after Muhammad, and Hadith is not valid if it contradicts Quran, for the obvious reason.

Regards

The full comment is this that you replied to picking a small portion. So tell me whats the relevance of your revelation?

No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran. But the story is in the Hadith.

Anyway, the hadith quotes the Quranic verse that explicitly says in the name of God, the generous, the one taught by noon, the pen etc etc. So you said why didnt Gabriel say its from God, but he did. So you have not understood this hadith.

My question is this, let me ask you for the third time. At least now maybe you could give an answer. Please try and not avoid this.

You said that you believe Muhammed was in the cave. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH SO MUCH? DO YOU BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH OR JUST THIS ONE? IF YOU BELIEVE THIS WHY NOT BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH?

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH?
 
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