How would life on another planet change your theology

Mock Turtle said:

it might change the views of some but mostly this will just be incorporated into any dogma - as it tends to happen when reality bumps up against what has been taught by any religion.

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well what if there were being that did something like prove reincarnation, because they could literally be proven to remember past lives... or if they had time machines and could show us very specifically how our ideas developed and who is closest to the truth

ideogenous_mover said:

well what if there were being that did something like prove reincarnation, because they could literally be proven to remember past lives... or if they had time machines and could show us very specifically how our ideas developed and who is closest to the truth

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Whatever comes from the future we will have to deal with - but not me unfortunately, which is the worst thing about dying in my view - not knowing what will happen to human life. I'm sure there is still plenty to learn and anyone with a reasonably open mind would accept what is factual. At present we can't seem to do that in many areas - such as reincarnation and other things - so I sensibly can't accept what is not proven. And even if I experienced anything of the sort - which I haven't - I would still suspect the experience as coming from my brain rather than anything else - that is, being an illusion, since it is much more likely.

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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No change for Bible believers. Jesus died to redeem humans, animals and the whole cosmos. On that other planet, they speak of the Savior if they're sentient!

Earthly theists are so full of themselves, they'd be trying to convert the aliens.

BilliardsBall said:

No change for Bible believers. Jesus died to redeem humans, animals and the whole cosmos. On that other planet, they speak of the Savior if they're sentient!

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They speak of the savior here or a duplicate savior elsewhere

Mock Turtle said:

Whatever comes from the future we will have to deal with - but not me unfortunately, which is the worst thing about dying in my view - not knowing what will happen to human life. I'm sure there is still plenty to learn and anyone with a reasonably open mind would accept what is factual. At present we can't seem to do that in many areas - such as reincarnation and other things - so I sensibly can't accept what is not proven. And even if I experienced anything of the sort - which I haven't - I would still suspect the experience as coming from my brain rather than anything else - that is, being an illusion, since it is much more likely.

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Two things.

Dying does suck. I'm not thrilled with the idea either, but we are all going to die of something. It just looks as if you and I have a closer idea of how and when, for ourselves.

Second: there isn't a single thing that we 'know' of the world around us that isn't 'coming from' our brains. All our senses are 'from the brain.' Everything is subjective, when it gets to us, from things we can argue over...like whether that bowl of cold stuff is ice cream or not, to things we can't, like 'vanilla tastes better than chocolate." (heresy, but some people actually think that!)

The things we can argue about are 'objective,' because there's something to disagree about. The purely subjective stuff provides no disagreement; how can I argue with you about whether vanilla or chocolate tastes better TO YOU? We have to take your word for it.

Either way, though, your opinion of things 'comes from your brain,' and the rest of us don't have access to your brain. It's all your subjective impression, even of objective things. We need to learn to trust our own brains a little more, I think. Trust our own feelings, and not depend upon a consensus of everybody else's opinions to form our own.

JMO, of course.

Not a problem. Hinduism has believed for millennia that there are many other inhabited worlds.

BilliardsBall said:

No change for Bible believers. Jesus died to redeem humans, animals and the whole cosmos. On that other planet, they speak of the Savior if they're sentient!

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Can you imagine Jesus looking like E.T.?

Ciao

- viole

dianaiad said:

Two things.

Dying does suck. I'm not thrilled with the idea either, but we are all going to die of something. It just looks as if you and I have a closer idea of how and when, for ourselves.

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As I commented, not knowing about the future is more a loss for me but of course it probably is for all (unless one does have certain views), but I don't fear dying as I do see it as just the end of my existence. (Not dying for a bit hopefully)

Second: there isn't a single thing that we 'know' of the world around us that isn't 'coming from' our brains. All our senses are 'from the brain.' Everything is subjective, when it gets to us, from things we can argue over...like whether that bowl of cold stuff is ice cream or not, to things we can't, like 'vanilla tastes better than chocolate." (heresy, but some people actually think that!)

The things we can argue about are 'objective,' because there's something to disagree about. The purely subjective stuff provides no disagreement; how can I argue with you about whether vanilla or chocolate tastes better TO YOU? We have to take your word for it.

Either way, though, your opinion of things 'comes from your brain,' and the rest of us don't have access to your brain. It's all your subjective impression, even of objective things. We need to learn to trust our own brains a little more, I think. Trust our own feelings, and not depend upon a consensus of everybody else's opinions to form our own.

JMO, of course.

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Well there are a few objective things I can test - like gravity and electricity (which I have done several times getting a mains shock) - but overall I have to trust those who try to define reality - the scientists - and although they are not necessarily right all the time, they get nearer to the truth for my needs it seems.

As to any subjective experiences - well I probably have looked enough at psychology and related fields to know how we deceive ourselves, so I'm afraid I just don't believe however I interpret my own mental experiences I can't guarantee that these will be factual rather than mental illusions or fabrications - and the same goes for others since we are all much the same.

dianaiad said:

Either way, though, your opinion of things 'comes from your brain,' and the rest of us don't have access to your brain. It's all your subjective impression, even of objective things.

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Take the example of prosopagnosia, which is so interesting because it runs so counter to the intuition that we each look so unique, in an irreducible sense. Only with the existence of this condition however, might we know that this is a total lie. Either that, or it's an objective truth that special brain structures are required to filter for, which is an odd path to a truth. Perhaps that is sloppily written, I'm not sure.

Mock Turtle said:

As to any subjective experiences - well I probably have looked enough at psychology and related fields to know how we deceive ourselves, so I'm afraid I just don't believe however I interpret my own mental experiences I can't guarantee that these will be factual rather than mental illusions or fabrications - and the same goes for others since we are all much the same.

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So long as the psychology isn't politicized, which I think it probably is at risk of becoming in our modern times.

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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What ? NASA is worried there will be panic in the streets?

Hell I'd be thrilled to even hear there's a fungus out there somewhere.

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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They probably would say nothing. What matters to a religion is its core values, and theoretical ability to live on Mars as a remote possibility is not nearly the same as actually doing it.

However, something I should point out is that geography matters to a religion far more than the current events. That is, an existing religion will be altered by a land with distinctive characteristics and strong existing religion (see also Celtic Christianity and Coptic Christianity), and the religion that develops in a land in the absence of existing religion is strongly influenced by the geography (ancient Russian paganism, Shintoism, and Polynesian faith for example).

The religion that would develop naturally on Mars, Uranus, and Venus would be quite different from each other, and quite different from existing Earth religions.

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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belief systems are based on culture and culture is based on environment.


Culture(s) and Belief Systems - California Scholarship

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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It might year at some of the creationists complaints about abiogenesis. For that matter it should help us with our scientific understanding of how life evolved from non-life.

BilliardsBall said:

No change for Bible believers. Jesus died to redeem humans, animals and the whole cosmos. On that other planet, they speak of the Savior if they're sentient!

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Or did before the rapture...whoops no one on Earth made it!

sealchan said:

It might year at some of the creationists complaints about abiogenesis. For that matter it should help us with our scientific understanding of how life evolved from non-life.

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I roll my eyes whenever I hear mention of abiogenesis.

You understand, don't you, that abiogenesis is basically spontaneous generation with a fancy Latin term, right?

Amazing how readily people believe something that science textbooks swore up and down was false, now that it has a snazzy new term. Alright then. We're gonna make a petri dish filled with all the organic chemicals you want and because we zap it with electricity (or whatever) we can kid ourselves into saying "it's alive, it's alive!" like Frankenstein.

1. I'm not sure any abiogenesis has actually ever created actual life. Like ever. I could look it up, but I think it's crap science.
2. Even if it did, it's still incredibly retarded. You know why? Because it relies on a slight-of-hand where the scientist says "And this PROVES that live resulted from random events, and not because of intelligent design." Oh really? So...
a. Who gathered all these materials for this so called primordial soup? (Scientists)
b. Who mixed them (Scientists)
c. Who made sure temperature and other factors were perfect? (Again, scientists)

Rather than prove generation is spontaneous, what they have actually proven then is that it is possible to create life by design (though in this case with scientists rather than an immortal creator).

So much like Wukong trying to leave Buddha's hand. You're so proud of doing nothing.

Samantha Rinne said:

However, something I should point out is that geography matters to a religion far more than the current events.

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Very good point. Most religions have holy rivers and mountains etc. that even pass hands as the religion changes. Churches said to be built on the site of old pagan monuments of importance etc. which might have even had preceding significance to preceding religions further back in time

sealchan said:

It might year at some of the creationists complaints about abiogenesis. For that matter it should help us with our scientific understanding of how life evolved from non-life.

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I'm interested to hear their remarks when nasa drills down and possibly finds something in 2021 or whatever

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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Personally I dont think they will find any evidence of bacterial like life on Mars even if it was there 3 to 2 billion years ago like it was on Earth. Expecially not in the next 50 to 100 years because It probably will take that long to get a man there and back safely. And a manned crew would need months of work there just to get started there. Beyond that examples of life 3 billion years ago on Earth is difficult to find much less unprotected Mars. I think NASA is hyping for Government funding.

Assuming that they do find life... it probably would not budge the Religious who already ignore Science and History.

ideogenous_mover said:

So long as the psychology isn't politicized, which I think it probably is at risk of becoming in our modern times.

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Possibly. I'm no lover (or hater) of psychology, and even though it is not exactly mature yet, it does provide many explanations for our thinking and behaviour that are useful, and where it probably does better than anything else. Tools can always be misused, such that it is up to us to make sure they aren't - especially when so powerful. I must admit preferring to read books by psychologists than many others. Perhaps I'm a masochist at heart.

ideogenous_mover said:

So NASA just said something today about the world not being ready for life on mars. I'm ready, it wouldn't even surprise me actually. However, would it rock the theological world's boat? What would the world's religious leaders say? Might it even put various institutions out of business so to speak? Create an impetus to add new explanatory scripture or rules to your religion? How would you react if your leaders said nothing?

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It wouldn't affect my views at all. I pretty much work on the assumption that extraterrestrial life exists.

It might impact some of the more hardline religious sects that view the Earth as a special case. It would probably also have some effect on alien-based religions, either vindication or disappointment if the aliens bear no resemblance to their view of aliens. In either case, I doubt it would be a world-shattering discovery for them. Plenty of people have no trouble with being against evolution so viewing extraterrestrial life as a hoax shouldn't be difficult. Also the alien-based religions can easily shrug and say, "It's a big universe. Our aliens are definitely out there" if the extraterrestrial life doesn't meet expectations.

There are a couple of possibilities that would affect my own beliefs. The first is that there is no extraterrestrial life at all and the Earth is indeed a special case. I'd have to seriously ask myself why. Secondly, if an intelligent alien species had beliefs and practices identical to one of Earth's religions. If the aliens are taking communion and saying Hail Marys, I would have to take a hard look at Catholicism and try to determine whether or not the aliens are simply copying our own religious practices.