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Pope Francis endorses claim that US Christians are engaged in ‘ecumenism of hatred’

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
Pope Francis endorses claim that US Christians are engaged in ‘ecumenism of hatred’ - CatholicCitizens.org


VATICAN CITY, September 26, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) ― In an address to Jesuits in Mozambique, Pope Francis recommended an infamous 2017 article that characterized the cooperation between U.S. Catholic and Evangelical social conservatives as an “ecumenism of hatred.”

In the same address, the Pope criticized a woman who professed joy that two young people had converted to Catholicism. And he suggested young priests who wear cassocks are expressing a form of “rigid clericalism” that conceals “moral problems.”

The Pope’s September 5 speech was published today, September 26, in La Civiltà Cattolica by Antonio Spadaro, SJ, one of the two co-authors of the 2017 article.

Responding to a question about Protestant sects that recommend their faith to Africans as a way to become rich, Francis said:


… We must distinguish carefully between the different groups who are identified as ‘Protestants.’ There are many with whom we can work very well, and who care about serious, open and positive ecumenism. But there are others who only try to proselytize and use a theological vision of prosperity ….

Two important articles in Civiltà Cattolica have been published in this regard. I recommend them to you. They were written by Father Spadaro and the Argentinean Presbyterian pastor, Marcelo Figueroa. The first article spoke of the “ecumenism of hatred.”
This article, “Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism in the USA: A surprising Ecumenism”, first appeared in July 2017. It argues that American conservatives, including many Catholics, have been influenced by Protestant fundamentalism, and that Catholic and Evangelical voters who work together on social issues like the right to life and traditional marriage have transformed ecumenism into “an ecumenism of hatred.”

Spadaro and Figueroa wrote:

Appealing to the values of fundamentalism, a strange form of surprising ecumenism is developing between Evangelical fundamentalists and Catholic Integralists brought together by the same desire for religious influence in the political sphere.

Some who profess themselves to be Catholic express themselves in ways that until recently were unknown in their tradition and using tones much closer to Evangelicals. They are defined as value voters as far as attracting electoral mass support is concerned. There is a well-defined world of ecumenical convergence between sectors that are paradoxically competitors when it comes to confessional belonging. This meeting over shared objectives happens around such themes as abortion, same-sex marriage, religious education in schools and other matters generally considered moral or tied to values. Both Evangelical and Catholic Integralists condemn traditional ecumenism and yet promote an ecumenism of conflict that unites them in the nostalgic dream of a theocratic type of state.

However, the most dangerous prospect for this strange ecumenism is attributable to its xenophobic and Islamophobic vision that wants walls and purifying deportations. The word “ecumenism” transforms into a paradox, into an “ecumenism of hate.” Intolerance is a celestial mark of purism. Reductionism is the exegetical methodology. Ultra-literalism is its hermeneutical key.


American conservatives who noted that articles published in Civiltà Cattolica are vetted by the Holy See worried that these thoughts reflected the mind of Pope Francis and condemned the authors’ ignorance of the United States.

Phil Lawler of the Catholic Culture website called the essay “ignorant” and “intemperate.”

“The authors of the essay claim to embrace ecumenism, but they have nothing but disdain for the coalition formed by Catholics and Evangelical Protestants in the United States,” Lawler wrote.

“They scold American conservatives for seeing world events as a struggle of good against evil, yet they clearly convey the impression that they see American conservatism as an evil influence that must be defeated.”

Rod Dreher of American Conservative magazine wrote that the essay “reads like deaf men criticizing a chamber music performance.”

“They have very little idea what they’re talking about,” he continued.

“Many American watchers of the Vatican know that Father Spadaro is very close to Francis, but many others — including me — did not know who Marcelo Figueroa, the co-author, is. Turns out he’s an Argentine Presbyterian and personal friend of Pope Francis hand-picked by the pontiff to launch an Argentine edition of the official Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano.”

In his speech to the African Jesuits, Francis next condemned both the prosperity gospel and proselytism:


The second (article in Civiltà Cattolica) was on the “theology of prosperity.” Reading them you will see that there are sects that cannot really be defined as Christian. They preach Christ, yes, but their message is not Christian. It has nothing to do with the preaching of a Lutheran or any other serious evangelical Christianity. These so-called “evangelicals” preach prosperity. They promise a Gospel that does not know poverty, but simply seeks to make proselytes. This is exactly what Jesus condemns in the Pharisees of his time. I’ve said it many times: proselytism is not Christian.

The pontiff revealed that he was feeling bitter after meeting a woman who had introduced him to two young converts to Catholicism. One had been Hindu, the other Anglican. Francis said he had reproved the woman.

Pope Francis also took aim at clericalism, which he felt was embodied by young priests who wear traditional clerical garb.

“Clericalism has a direct consequence in rigidity,” he said.

“Have you never seen young priests all stiff in black cassocks and hats in the shape of the planet Saturn (the saturno) on their heads? Behind all the rigid clericalism there are serious problems.” he continued.

“I had to intervene recently in three dioceses with problems that expressed themselves in these forms of rigidity that concealed moral problems and imbalances.”

The pontiff also said an “exclusive moral fixation on the sixth commandment” (God’s prohibition against adultery, fornication and other sexual sins) was another dimension of clericalism.

“We focus on sex and then we do not give weight to social injustice, slander, gossip and lies,” he said.

“The Church today needs a profound conversion in this area.”
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Pope Francis endorses claim that US Christians are engaged in ‘ecumenism of hatred’ - CatholicCitizens.org


VATICAN CITY, September 26, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) ― In an address to Jesuits in Mozambique, Pope Francis recommended an infamous 2017 article that characterized the cooperation between U.S. Catholic and Evangelical social conservatives as an “ecumenism of hatred.”

In the same address, the Pope criticized a woman who professed joy that two young people had converted to Catholicism. And he suggested young priests who wear cassocks are expressing a form of “rigid clericalism” that conceals “moral problems.”

The Pope’s September 5 speech was published today, September 26, in La Civiltà Cattolica by Antonio Spadaro, SJ, one of the two co-authors of the 2017 article.

Responding to a question about Protestant sects that recommend their faith to Africans as a way to become rich, Francis said:


… We must distinguish carefully between the different groups who are identified as ‘Protestants.’ There are many with whom we can work very well, and who care about serious, open and positive ecumenism. But there are others who only try to proselytize and use a theological vision of prosperity ….

Two important articles in Civiltà Cattolica have been published in this regard. I recommend them to you. They were written by Father Spadaro and the Argentinean Presbyterian pastor, Marcelo Figueroa. The first article spoke of the “ecumenism of hatred.”
This article, “Evangelical Fundamentalism and Catholic Integralism in the USA: A surprising Ecumenism”, first appeared in July 2017. It argues that American conservatives, including many Catholics, have been influenced by Protestant fundamentalism, and that Catholic and Evangelical voters who work together on social issues like the right to life and traditional marriage have transformed ecumenism into “an ecumenism of hatred.”

Spadaro and Figueroa wrote:

Appealing to the values of fundamentalism, a strange form of surprising ecumenism is developing between Evangelical fundamentalists and Catholic Integralists brought together by the same desire for religious influence in the political sphere.

Some who profess themselves to be Catholic express themselves in ways that until recently were unknown in their tradition and using tones much closer to Evangelicals. They are defined as value voters as far as attracting electoral mass support is concerned. There is a well-defined world of ecumenical convergence between sectors that are paradoxically competitors when it comes to confessional belonging. This meeting over shared objectives happens around such themes as abortion, same-sex marriage, religious education in schools and other matters generally considered moral or tied to values. Both Evangelical and Catholic Integralists condemn traditional ecumenism and yet promote an ecumenism of conflict that unites them in the nostalgic dream of a theocratic type of state.

However, the most dangerous prospect for this strange ecumenism is attributable to its xenophobic and Islamophobic vision that wants walls and purifying deportations. The word “ecumenism” transforms into a paradox, into an “ecumenism of hate.” Intolerance is a celestial mark of purism. Reductionism is the exegetical methodology. Ultra-literalism is its hermeneutical key.

American conservatives who noted that articles published in Civiltà Cattolica are vetted by the Holy See worried that these thoughts reflected the mind of Pope Francis and condemned the authors’ ignorance of the United States.

Phil Lawler of the Catholic Culture website called the essay “ignorant” and “intemperate.”

“The authors of the essay claim to embrace ecumenism, but they have nothing but disdain for the coalition formed by Catholics and Evangelical Protestants in the United States,” Lawler wrote.

“They scold American conservatives for seeing world events as a struggle of good against evil, yet they clearly convey the impression that they see American conservatism as an evil influence that must be defeated.”

Rod Dreher of American Conservative magazine wrote that the essay “reads like deaf men criticizing a chamber music performance.”

“They have very little idea what they’re talking about,” he continued.

“Many American watchers of the Vatican know that Father Spadaro is very close to Francis, but many others — including me — did not know who Marcelo Figueroa, the co-author, is. Turns out he’s an Argentine Presbyterian and personal friend of Pope Francis hand-picked by the pontiff to launch an Argentine edition of the official Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano.”

In his speech to the African Jesuits, Francis next condemned both the prosperity gospel and proselytism:


The second (article in Civiltà Cattolica) was on the “theology of prosperity.” Reading them you will see that there are sects that cannot really be defined as Christian. They preach Christ, yes, but their message is not Christian. It has nothing to do with the preaching of a Lutheran or any other serious evangelical Christianity. These so-called “evangelicals” preach prosperity. They promise a Gospel that does not know poverty, but simply seeks to make proselytes. This is exactly what Jesus condemns in the Pharisees of his time. I’ve said it many times: proselytism is not Christian.

The pontiff revealed that he was feeling bitter after meeting a woman who had introduced him to two young converts to Catholicism. One had been Hindu, the other Anglican. Francis said he had reproved the woman.

Pope Francis also took aim at clericalism, which he felt was embodied by young priests who wear traditional clerical garb.

“Clericalism has a direct consequence in rigidity,” he said.

“Have you never seen young priests all stiff in black cassocks and hats in the shape of the planet Saturn (the saturno) on their heads? Behind all the rigid clericalism there are serious problems.” he continued.

“I had to intervene recently in three dioceses with problems that expressed themselves in these forms of rigidity that concealed moral problems and imbalances.”

The pontiff also said an “exclusive moral fixation on the sixth commandment” (God’s prohibition against adultery, fornication and other sexual sins) was another dimension of clericalism.

“We focus on sex and then we do not give weight to social injustice, slander, gossip and lies,” he said.

“The Church today needs a profound conversion in this area.”
In a way I think I get it, because they are remaining divided even though they are uniting politically. This is not the same as sharing communion. In communion you accept one another whether you agree politically or not. I think though that they should be entitled to be activists and to vote for whom their consciences move them to, and I am not sure from the OP whether that is being discouraged. I suspect not, but I don't know enough to say.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Rod Dreher of American Conservative magazine
Oh, him. He's one of those homophobic idiots who thinks that gays are responsible for the sex abuse in the Catholic Church, so he left Catholicism to join Orthodoxy, which is virulently and violently homophobic in Eastern Europe (inspired by out of control, lunatic clerics who almost put the Taliban to shame in their hate speech). Who cares what he says. He should do his "Benedict Option" to go live like a hermit somewhere and spare us.
 
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Father Heathen

Veteran Member
U.S. conservative Christianity is a bizarre oddity when you compare it forms of Christianity outside the U.S. or to the teachings and examples of Christ himself. It embodies a cognitive dissonance that's woven itself into our cultural fabric.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Aw. Aw no... I wish I had the Pope's Mexico problems.
th

 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Ecumenicism? If I may for Accuracy, Ecumenicism is Greek. You may Romanize it to look like Oukiminos as well. That means, the Pope doesn't KNOW Ecumenicism. The Pope sends "auditor" types to the World Council of Churches and events like that, because they can't take part, and they're the one church, and it doesn't have to oukiminos with anybody. The Pentarchy since the beginning, and in a Continuous fashion favored regional leadership at which point, the 5 Patriarchs, or today's probably 100 patriarch, just taking in Orthodox Christianity would be Ecumenicism, so you see you put some strange arbitrary barrier on people.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
There is actually in the geographical Orthodox churches, a very real schism, which would be Russian Orthodoxy. Have you noticed the double eagle the old Byzantine Empire uses to symbolize the old pagan Roman Eagle, it was peacefully split in two for administrative purposes. The yellow one is still the flag of the Greek Orthodox Church. The Third one represents the Russian Empire's claim to being the revival of a 3rd Rome, of Moscow. So, the Russian Patriarch excommunicates most the other ones, or the others meet and the Russian Doesn't. Just think if they weren't so evil, and telling the King of Korea, that they don't even get a Church when they surrender, you know .
Mwae hae yo? Изучение русского товарища.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
U.S. conservative Christianity is a bizarre oddity when you compare it forms of Christianity outside the U.S. or to the teachings and examples of Christ himself. It embodies a cognitive dissonance that's woven itself into our cultural fabric.
Correct. My family in Sweden is strongly religious and Christian, and they consider Trump and the conservative Christians here in US false. They're fake Christians according to my family.
 
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MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
th
We're Christians. We're Presbyterian Christians. In God We Trust. I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the united states of America, and to the republic , for which it stands, one nation, under God, of the Covenanters, with liberty, and justice for all. Play ball. We asked our young people again to the mountains of Korea, and we got what we expected, valor, every day. Allied Sea and Airmen, you are on that great crusade of liberty, for freemen around the world. Some sort of Abrahamic God is the very foundation of our American Civilization. I would fight to defend a Muslim Mosque like this one, as dearly as any other institution, that's what it is to be an American. -Dwight Eisenhower

God in Arabic in native Arabic is Allah. That totally makes sense. Don't forget, Muslim is the native way to practice Presbyterian.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
th
We're Christians. We're Presbyterian Christians. In God We Trust. I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the united states of America, and to the republic , for which it stands, one nation, under God, of the Covenanters, with liberty, and justice for all. Play ball. We asked our young people again to the mountains of Korea, and we got what we expected, valor, every day. Allied Sea and Airmen, you are on that great crusade of liberty, for freemen around the world. Some sort of Abrahamic God is the very foundation of our American Civilization. I would fight to defend a Muslim Mosque like this one, as dearly as any other institution, that's what it is to be an American. -Dwight Eisenhower

God in Arabic in native Arabic is Allah. That totally makes sense. Don't forget, Muslim is the native way to practice Presbyterian.

Is there any scripture that consecrates the amalgamation of religion and patriotism? Seems rather idolatrous.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
All they need is like the call to respect your leaders in like Romans 13. More like a tradition of it. Plus, then Horace Underwood leads respect to the leaders the US doesn't like King Gojong, sejong, throw-in Syngman rhee, assassinate the leader of Vietnam, whatever. pow pow.

upload_2019-10-1_21-33-0.jpeg
upload_2019-10-1_21-33-9.jpeg
Look! PCUSA! They Captured Underwood's Korean Presbyterian Church Bible Class! Some sort of Forced homosexual marriage , with Oprah... I Don't Know about this PCUSA, you cannot disrespect the Comfort Women! This is too much Eisenhower pretend PCUSA. At least he always wanted to get rid of the Kisaeng, put them into loving homosexuality with Oprah.
Dixie is the only solution . ecumenicists.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Pope Francis is distancing your church from some very destructive lines of thought and action. In that sense, I admire his strength of conviction and willingness to speak out. Obviously he has his critics, especially with his comments about American politics. The leader of my faith (The Universal House of Justice) was similarly compelled to express concern about the current state of the world early this year and an increase in forces that would divide us.

18 January 2019 – To the Bahá’ís of the World | Bahá’í Reference Library
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
"My" Church, meaning the PCUSA, or at least where they call me Mike Dwight, so nobody mistakes me as any other family-slave ahem, I'm with the Dwights, so, they're fighting a '2nd protestant reformation' recently. Really? I said. They got to get our church healed. They just got excommunicated in Mexico. That's because they like naughty preachers with homosexuality, like the head Moderator lady. Lastly, it'll break apart in a billion pieces its so hurt, then, there's no National Religion of Americans finally. Because! Immigrants will say what it was? This My Country Tis of Thee of the Kenyan man. He's welcome of course, if he Wanted a Separate service, maybe he could have it a little while, but, my Church is going to hog tie him, throw him in the truck, when he wakes up, it'll be with a bunch of 90 year old white people, in a service.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
“The Church today needs a profound conversion in this area.”

It sure does. They should stop focusing on some false teachings and leading people astray. Too many don't know truth from lies, right from wrong. They wouldn't know Jesus if he came down and started healing folks and making everyone wealthy, happy, and establishing world peace.

So many deceived, such a shame.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Oh, why wasn't this the Catholic DIR. My mistake. You want to talk about what Catholics get up to joining others in hatred?
th
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Is there any scripture that consecrates the amalgamation of religion and patriotism? Seems rather idolatrous.
Here they are 2 different things...since the Pope hate Italian Nationalists (who are with Trump of course)....
So you will find many atheists among Nationalists here....;)

Far far right-wing in Italy despises Catholicism, embraces ethno-centrism, Darwinism and eugenics.
 
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