• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Religious Borrowing and then Theft

leov

Well-Known Member
Possibly, but that is not the point, and even if true it does not reflect the reality of the origin of the Pentateuch in real history. In reality this a religious claim and not rooted in objective fact.
Israel - one who sees God. Abraham is archetype of Israel. That is a prominent side of the OT and NT. Outlined path of human enlightenment through this facility (Gnostic) by direct experience.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Israel - one who sees God. Abraham is archetype of Israel. That is a prominent side of the OT and NT. Outlined path of human enlightenment through this facility (Gnostic) by direct experience.

Of course, nothing new here expressing your belief, but it remains a fact that the Pentateuch remains a more recent redacted, edited, and compiled texts without ancient provenance. The content contains material from Babylonian, Canaanite and Ugarit texts, evolved from older Sumerian texts, therefore they represent evolved texts from older texts, as per the subject of the thread.

I believe in Abraham, but in a more universal context of the evolution of human spirituality, ant dependent on a literal understanding of either Jewish nor Christian limited world views.

The secular view based on the facts is also relevant and recognizes that indeed later religions essential borrow, interpret and adapt the scripture, texts, and beliefs of older religions as does Judaism, Christianity and Islam.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Except that isn't the subject of this thread. This is just you pushing your belief.
Has nothing to do with my belief. It is in the subject of the thread of what is borrowing and/or theft? of text between one religion and another. I can simply view this from the evidence of a secular perspective without any reference to my belief that the facts are that all religions 'borrow' more ancient texts, and beliefs of older religions including Judaism.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Has nothing to do with my belief. It is in the subject of the thread of what is borrowing and/or theft? of text between one religion and another. I can simply view this from the evidence of a secular perspective without any reference to my belief that the facts are that all religions 'borrow' more ancient texts, and beliefs of older religions including Judaism.
Borrowing isn't what I'm talking about. If you'd read my OP, that was in the very first line.
 
Last edited:

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member

Don't cover your eyes and stop hiding from a coherent answer.

Your first line: "It's one thing for a religion to borrow concepts from other faiths, that happens all the time; but what about those faiths that take directly from others and what looks like to many, just play a dress up game?"

This a rather aggressive negative accusation that if reworded more neutrally may lead to constructive dialogue.

Yes, as you negatively assert your view concerning Christianity, but ignore Judaism does the same of older Babylonian, Canaanite and Ugarit texts, but I approach it as a more matter for fact historical secular approach by the evidence without the negative context of your accusations.
 
Last edited:

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
King James Bible
And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Revelation 21:22

As per the Op, I see I can borrow that passage from a previous scripture, then I guess, if one chooses to see it this way, steal its meaning.

For example,

I see the Bab is the Lamb and Baha'u'llah is the Temple, I see that link is all about the Messages they brought.

My guess is that type of explanation is what the OP intends to expose.

The foundation of all Faiths are born on these types of explanations, thus I guess if you accuse one, you accuse all. Throw mud and you still have dirty hands.

Regards Tony
 

sooda

Veteran Member
As per the Op, I see I can borrow that passage from a previous scripture, then I guess, if one chooses to see it this way, steal its meaning.

For example,

I see the Bab is the Lamb and Baha'u'llah is the Temple, I see that link is all about the Messages they brought.

My guess is that type of explanation is what the OP intends to expose.

The foundation of all Faiths are born on these types of explanations, thus I guess if you accuse one, you accuse all. Throw mud and you still have dirty hands.

Regards Tony

The Scofield heresy is dependent on futurism, rebuilding the Temple, the return of all the Jews. The politics were to develop Christian Zionism... Lord Balfour was an ardent Christian Zionist.

The Bible doesn't say anything about TWO tribulations.. The one and only was over in 70 AD. and the Christians escaped to Pella. BTW, the tribulation is not a global event, but a local one.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Lemme "steal" this text:

Ecclesiates 1:9-11
9 What has been is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done;
there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Can one say about anything,
“Look, this is new”?
It has already existed in the ages before us.
11 There is no remembrance of those who came before;
and of those who will come after
there will also be no remembrance
by those who follow them.​
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The Scofield heresy is dependent on futurism, rebuilding the Temple, the return of all the Jews. The politics were to develop Christian Zionism... Lord Balfour was an ardent Christian Zionist.

The Bible doesn't say anything about TWO tribulations.. The one and only was over in 70 AD. and the Christians escaped to Pella. BTW, the tribulation is not a global event, but a local one.

I would say it is obvious that tribulation is still a part of life. It is only in this age that the Message of Jesus the Christ became global.

It is a repeated mistake that people borrow and steal passages of scripture to bind the Hands of God to say God Messengers will no longer come. In fact that is against God's Eternal Covernant.

Peace be with you an all, Regards Tony
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I would say it is obvious that tribulation is still a part of life. It is only in this age that the Message of Jesus the Christ became global.

It is a repeated mistake that people borrow and steal passages of scripture to bind the Hands of God to say God Messengers will no longer come. In fact that is against God's Eternal Covernant.

Peace be with you an all, Regards Tony

I think the people of the first century understood the symbolism of Revelation perfectly. John of Patmos was writing to them.. not thousands of years into the future.

They did try to build a third temple.. in the time of Emperor Julius..
 

InChrist

Free4ever
The book of Revelation says there is no Temple.
Revelation is talking about the new heaven and new earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven and God dwells with people. There will be no temple then. The OT prophetic books are referring to the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, Israel when Christ returns to this present earth and reigns for a 1000 years.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think the people of the first century understood the symbolism of Revelation perfectly. John of Patmos was writing to them.. not thousands of years into the future.

They did try to build a third temple.. in the time of Emperor Julius..

Men will always try to build what God has not ordained.

Baha'u'llah made it clear He ws that promised Temple. Thus is that a fact or is that borrowed or stolen?

I see that is the choice all people get when a Messenger comes. It is the New Heaven and the New Earth.

Regards Tony
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Revelation is talking about the new heaven and new earth when the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven and God dwells with people. There will be no temple then. The OT prophetic books are referring to the rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, Israel when Christ returns to this present earth and reigns for a 1000 years.
It was a new age... The end of temple Judaism and blood sacrifice. The bible says there won't be another temple. Christian Zionism says otherwise.
 

unisus

The Awaited Messenger
I don't know about every one of those, but "Jew" is more than the religion. Being Jewish is a...culture and a people. One is born a Jew if one's mother is, no matter what one's beliefs are. I think that many Messianic Jews are simply acknowledging that; they want to be a part of that culture and people, with the Messiah already come.

That is their belief and I see nothing wrong with it. I especially see nothing wrong with wanting to be a part of a group that has been around, and culturally strong, for thousands of years. Very few, if any, other human group, has done that. I am not Jewish in any way, but if I had Jewish ancestry, I would want to be a part of that culture and group.

But I wouldn't change my own religious beliefs to do so.

Religious beliefs are personal, and it doesn't really matter what anybody else thinks, does it?

You are certainly enveloping to define what the word "Jew" means to you, as fed to you no doubt by the matrilineal bloodlines which many understand to be racist & cultic, who have declared a monopoly over "right & wrong, property, inheritance, law, & God by genetic heritage".

Jesus never came to eradicate the law, either; so the term "Christian" is a modern perversion of the term "Jew", because up until recently where slang has lazily began dropping the word "Judeo" from Judeo-Christianity, Judeo-Christianity has always and literally truly meant by 100% in all fulfillments of Old Testament promises to literally be "Jews who believe Christ is the messiah".

As with all idiocy in mankind, language becomes hijacked, divided, and people cling to the linguistics of their mass media, culture, school corporate funded textbooks, and childhood ears. But at no point has Judeo-Christianity meant anything other than another denomination of Jew.

The whole concept of "Messianic Jews" is redundant. So to complete my point here, your reiteration that being a Jew is only true by matrilineal denominations, is feeding right back into hateful regime of "religious wars" where everyone is supposedly divided, and nobody is allowed to have access to God except those in some kind of monarchial "royal gene pool".

The same matrilineal supposed "one and only true Jews who are destined to possess the world itself by God's divine genetic favoritism", have indeed convinced the Judeo-Christians that "Christianity" & Judaism are & always have been separate"—subliminally asserting their disbelief cosmically that He was not the messiah.

But let it never be mistook—that Judeo-Christianity refers to a denomination of people also identifying as "the one true" Jews. It is by capitalist perversion and devolution that these sects have grown to forget that Jesus announced Himself the messiah of the Jews, which includes His believers. There is no "Christian" vs. "Jew", there is and always has only been "Jew".

Judeo-Christianity is just another denomination of Judaism, and always has been; "Messianic Jew", again, is redundant.
 

j1i

Smiling is charity without giving money
:hugehug::hugehug:
It's one thing for a religion to borrow concepts from other faiths, that happens all the time; but what about those faiths that take directly from others and what looks like to many, just play a dress up game? I do believe most such people are sincere, but what do religions get out of this? Messianic Jews who are just Christians wearing tallitot wrong and calling Vicars 'Rabbi'. What's the problem with just being whatever your religion is? If there's this need for something else, what does that say about your faith? Again, I have no issue with people taking things that make sense or for rational reasons; I wear long Islamic style dresses for modesty's sake since I find them the most comfortable, and I don't think Muslims are taking an issue with it, but I have no desire to make myself Muslim and start using prayer rugs and whatnot.

It's mostly Christians trying to be Jews, what's up with that?


When we say light, we say that light as a one only because the right way is to believe in God is only in one bath
But when we say dark, we can say darkness
Because the wrong ways are many
We're all in a class, We took the teachings from the Great Professor Abraham
Information or phenotypic culture was not the exclosive to a specific gender
We all know that shaking hands is with the right hand
The similarity between Islam, Judaism and Christianity is because light and truth are not the preserve of culture or sex
I believe that the Prophet Muhammad is mentioned in the Torah (bible)
But the most important thing is to participate in the Tawhid at the moment

i hope can enter paradise and see you their
pray or me
hugg :hugehug::hugehug:
 
Last edited:
Top