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What do these Bible verses mean?

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
What do you think these Bible verses mean, particularly the underlined parts, and why do you think that?

Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
 
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InChrist

Free4ever
What do you think these Bible verses mean, particularly the underlined parts, and why do you think that?

Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
I think they mean basically just what they say.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Well, like what does the first one say to you?
Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

It says to me that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return from heaven, from the heaven of the Will of God.


It says to me that the disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven.

Coming in like manner means the Christ Spirit will be made manifest from the heaven of the Will of God and will appear in the form of a human temple. Just as Jesus appeared in a human temple when he was delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the Will of God.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

It says to me that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return from heaven, from the heaven of the Will of God.


It says to me that the disciples were staring up into the sky as the spirit of Jesus was taken up to heaven out of their sight. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky because they wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky. Then the angels told the disciples that the same spirit of Jesus that was taken up to heaven will return just as it went to heaven.

Coming in like manner means the Christ Spirit will be made manifest from the heaven of the Will of God and will appear in the form of a human temple. Just as Jesus appeared in a human temple when he was delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the Will of God.
I'm not sure what you mean by "Christ Spirit".
It simply says to me that just as they literally saw Jesus taken up to the heavens, He would likewise return from heaven.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
I'm not sure what you mean by "Christ Spirit".
It simply says to me that just as they literally saw Jesus taken up to the heavens, He would likewise return from heaven.
I mean the Spirit of Christ, the divine appearance and heavenly splendor, as opposed to a physical body. The Christ Spirit has to appear in a human temple and as a Baha'i I believe the Christ Spirit returned in Baha'u'llah.

So do you believe they saw the body of Jesus go up to the heavens and the body of Jesus will return from the heavens?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What do you think these Bible verses mean, particularly the underlined parts, and why do you think that?

From the perspective of Jehovah's Witnesses.....in modern English....
Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

"And as they were gazing into the sky while he was on his way, suddenly two men in white garments stood beside them 11 and said: “Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.”

Jesus' ascending to heaven was going to be the manner in which he returned.....so how did he leave?
The world at large did not witness this event...only his closest companions saw him go. As he was raised up from the earth, he was obscured from their vision by clouds. Raised as a spirit, Jesus then probably took the opportunity to dematerialize and return to his Father in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot exist in the spirit realm.

In Matthew 24:3-14 Jesus gave a sign of his "presence" (not his coming) and it involved certain world events all occurring within one timeframe called "the time of the end". If Jesus' return was a visible event that everyone could witness, then why require a sign to signal it?

It is his "coming" to pass judgment on earth's inhabitants that will be the visible part of his return, but it only happens at the end. The beginning of his reign was to be a time of trouble...war, earthquakes, famine, disease and increasing lawlessness.....love would disappear from the world as a selfish spirit grips people so that they only think of themselves. The greatest tribulation in the history of mankind is to take place just before Christ's judgment when all will have shown God who they really are and whose worship they support. Like Noah, only the obedient "few" will survive. (Matthew 24:21; Matthew 24:37-39)

John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.


"Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. . . .
19 In a little while the world will see me no more, but you will see me, because I live and you will live."

This is Jesus' promise to his faithful apostles who make up the foundations of his Kingdom. It was for them that he went to prepare a place in his Father's house. The world will never see Jesus in the flesh again, but because they will go to heaven, his apostles will see him as a mighty spirit King, as will all those chosen for rulership roles in his heavenly Kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) They will live immortally in heaven reigning over mortal subjects on earth, (Revelation 21:2-4) returning everything back to God's original purpose. (Isaiah 55:11)

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

"I came as the Father’s representative and have come into the world. Now I am leaving the world and am going to the Father.”

Jesus came from heaven to fulfill a rescue mission for the human race and once his mission was complete, he returned to where he was before, at his Father's right hand.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

"I have glorified you on the earth, having finished the work you have given me to do."

He glorified his Father in that he fulfilled his mission and completed it. There was no further work for Messiah to do until the end when he acts as judge of all mankind. "Judgment starts with the house of God" so his first target will be those who claim him as their "Lord". (Matthew 7:21-23) These ones imagine that they are serving Christ's best interests on earth but they are in for a rude awakening. He will reject them completely, having never recognized them as his own.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

"I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they may be one just as we are one."

In prayer to his Father, Jesus acknowledged that his disciples would have a rough road to travel after he was gone. He asked his Father to watch over them as those who carry and uphold God's illustrious name and reputation, they are united with God and his Christ in purpose and in their mission to preach "the good news of God's kingdom in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations", before the foretold "end"...when the present world system of things is brought crashing down. (Matthew 24:14; Daniel 2:44)
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
The Christ Spirit has to appear in a human temple and as a Baha'i I believe the Christ Spirit returned in Baha'u'llah.

Christ hasn't returned in any other form, nor will He ever. He warned of others that would come pretending to be Him.

Matthew 24:1-5

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Had Christ returned already, humanity would have already been extinguished.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
What do you think these Bible verses mean, particularly the underlined parts, and why do you think that?

Acts 1:10-11 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
In my understanding, all the verses speak about Jesus coming and Jesus's departure to heaven after his mission was finish on earth.
But he still say even he in the physical body is gone, Both he and his teaching is here.
 

Moz

Religion. A pox on all their Houses.
I mean the Spirit of Christ, the divine appearance and heavenly splendor, as opposed to a physical body. The Christ Spirit has to appear in a human temple and as a Baha'i I believe the Christ Spirit returned in Baha'u'llah.

So do you believe they saw the body of Jesus go up to the heavens and the body of Jesus will return from the heavens?
Hi
There may be a couple of diveregent views about the specifics of these scriptures amongst those who claim to be christian but NO reading can possibly fit the idea the Jesus was to return re-incarnated as a different person who then lives a life and dies.
That is absolutely ridiculous, you bahai's should not misuse scripture as you do. The muslims, who you also claim as your religious lineage, would also tell you that your idea was in no way compatable with any Abrahamic thought.

If you are fishing for some way to incorporate what you have been told about the claim of your prophet with the biblical narrative it is impossible. There is no way that i can think of to even twist things to make it fit within the biblical context.

You should just accept that the fact that the bahai teachings are incompatible with christianity and stop claiming that you are doing anything other than teaching the opposite of what Christ taught.
Peace
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Christ hasn't returned in any other form, nor will He ever. He warned of others that would come pretending to be Him.
Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world, so we know it will not be Jesus who is returning. Moreover, Jesus never promised to return, not once in the NT. It was the Christians who *believed* that he would return.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Matthew 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
That verse correctly translated means the end of an age, not the end of the world. If the world was to end there could not be a Kingdom of God on earth, but we know that Jesus told us to pray for the Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven in the Lord’s Prayer.

ESV
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Jesus was saying that there would be many deceivers, many coming claiming to be Christ, and indeed there have been many. Jesus did not say that there would not be anyone coming who was not a deceiver.
Matthew 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
So if Christ came in His own name, calling Himself Christ, we know it would not be Christ. We know that it will be a new name from the verses below. Why would Christ come with a new name, if it was the same Jesus Christ who was to come? That makes no sense at all.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Had Christ returned already, humanity would have already been extinguished.
No, what we would expect to see if Christ had returned would be the end of an age and the beginning of a new age, and that is exactly what we have seen since the mid-19th century, all kinds of advances in technology, science and medicine at an ever-increasing pace. Clearly, we are living in a New Age, the likes of which humanity has never seen before. That age began in 1844 and it corresponds to a new Divine Cycle of religion.

“We live in the most remarkable of times. The transformation of the material conditions of humanity has a cause. Do we really believe that the human beings who came before us were incapable of what we see in the world today? Great civilizations have come before in history – yet none of them broke out of the same reality that has existed since the dawn of agriculture.

It is only in this time that humanity has passed into an entirely new reality. It has a cause. A cause larger than humanity itself.

In 1844, in Shiraz, the Bab, Baha’u’llah’s immediate forerunner, spoke these words:

The secret of the Day that is to come is now concealed. It can neither be divulged nor estimated. The newly born babe of that Day excels the wisest and most venerable men of this time, and the lowliest and most unlearned of that period shall surpass in understanding the most erudite and accomplished divines of this age.[1]

A short time before, on the other side of the planet on 24 May 1844, within a day of the Bab’s declaration of his mission, Samuel Morse, the inventor of the telegraph sent its first message from Washington to Baltimore. The message read as follows: What hath God Wrought? , citing a passage from the Bible.”

What hath God Wrought? 24 May 1844

The Declaration of the Bab: Beginnings of a new Divine Cycle

 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world, so we know it will not be Jesus who is returning.

Incorrect, as shown in Mathew 24:1-5

Moreover, Jesus never promised to return, not once in the NT.

Again, Mathew 24:1-5

It was the Christians who *believed* that he would return.

He will return just not in the way that most people think. He came as a sheep before, the next time He comes his tongue shall cut as a 2 edged sword.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
In my understanding, all the verses speak about Jesus coming and Jesus's departure to heaven after his mission was finish on earth.
If Jesus' mission on earth was completed, as the verses say, why would Jesus come back again?
But he still say even he in the physical body is gone, Both he and his teaching is here.
I agree, in keeping with the following verse:

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
If Jesus' mission on earth was completed, as the verses say, why would Jesus come back again?

I agree, in keeping with the following verse:

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”
As far as I understand Jesus will come back in the end time, To take the saved souls with him.
But if it actually will happen I do not know
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was no more in the world, so we know it will not be Jesus who is returning. Moreover, Jesus never promised to return, not once in the NT. It was the Christians who *believed* that he would return.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


That verse correctly translated means the end of an age, not the end of the world. If the world was to end there could not be a Kingdom of God on earth, but we know that Jesus told us to pray for the Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven in the Lord’s Prayer.

ESV
As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”


Jesus was saying that there would be many deceivers, many coming claiming to be Christ, and indeed there have been many. Jesus did not say that there would not be anyone coming who was not a deceiver.

So if Christ came in His own name, calling Himself Christ, we know it would not be Christ. We know that it will be a new name from the verses below. Why would Christ come with a new name, if it was the same Jesus Christ who was to come? That makes no sense at all.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


No, what we would expect to see if Christ had returned would be the end of an age and the beginning of a new age, and that is exactly what we have seen since the mid-19th century, all kinds of advances in technology, science and medicine at an ever-increasing pace. Clearly, we are living in a New Age, the likes of which humanity has never seen before. That age began in 1844 and it corresponds to a new Divine Cycle of religion.

“We live in the most remarkable of times. The transformation of the material conditions of humanity has a cause. Do we really believe that the human beings who came before us were incapable of what we see in the world today? Great civilizations have come before in history – yet none of them broke out of the same reality that has existed since the dawn of agriculture.

It is only in this time that humanity has passed into an entirely new reality. It has a cause. A cause larger than humanity itself.

In 1844, in Shiraz, the Bab, Baha’u’llah’s immediate forerunner, spoke these words:

The secret of the Day that is to come is now concealed. It can neither be divulged nor estimated. The newly born babe of that Day excels the wisest and most venerable men of this time, and the lowliest and most unlearned of that period shall surpass in understanding the most erudite and accomplished divines of this age.[1]

A short time before, on the other side of the planet on 24 May 1844, within a day of the Bab’s declaration of his mission, Samuel Morse, the inventor of the telegraph sent its first message from Washington to Baltimore. The message read as follows: What hath God Wrought? , citing a passage from the Bible.”

What hath God Wrought? 24 May 1844

The Declaration of the Bab: Beginnings of a new Divine Cycle

The Bab ? Your understanding of Christian eschatology is fatally flawed. Whoever the Bab was, he was just another false prophet. You certainly are welcome to him, but it is an error I believe.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Incorrect, as shown in Mathew 24:1-5

Again, Mathew 24:1-5

He will return just not in the way that most people think. He came as a sheep before, the next time He comes his tongue shall cut as a 2 edged sword.
Nowhere in Mathew 24:1-5 does Jesus say He will return to earth...

Nowhere in the NT does Jesus say He will return to earth.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.


This is plain English... Did Jesus lie?
 
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