A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Show me a word from God that is untouched by human hands.
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Why Sunday as Sabbath?
- Thread starter d.n.irvin
- Start date
Ah! What other parts of the Torah do you not believe? The bible says Moses wrote the Torah, the five books from Genesis to Deuteronomy. It seem to me you are questioning whether this is true, yet the whole of the NT you accept as truth with no commentary.sojourner said:
Was Congregation used in Exodus? Isn't the meaning of Congregation and Convocation
basicly the same an "Assembly?"
"So...can we not observe the Sabbath, remembering it, to keep it holy, through some vehicle other than worship?"
Almost! but not quite! If you rest all day and do not assemble together(at the very least with your family) and bless your God, you have done your own thing in your own way and it is not accepted by God. It is written!
Shalom
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Not just seems. I hope to make it abundantly clear that I do not believe that Moses wrote the Torah. Scholarship tells us that it just ain't so. And how is it so clear that I "accept the whole of the NT as 'truth' with no comment?" Anyone who has spent time reading my posts will be happy to tell you that I approach the NT with the same scholastic integrity as I do the OT.Ronald said:
No. "Congregation" is not used in Exodus. (20:8-11) "Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work. But the seventh day is a sabbath to the LORD your God; you shall not do any work -- you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns. For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day and consecrated it." No mention of "congregation" or "assembly" or any other thing that might be understood as worship (or any kind of gathering together, for that matter). I think it's a later construct of the Levitican priesthood.
Must be a Baptist! Congregation is all through Exodus and in the Tabernacle.sojourner said:
You are right about it not being in the Exodus commandment, but when Moses tells you how to shemar the moed, Sabbath and the rest of the moedim, congregation is used.
So if you think the Exodus commandment stands alone, you surely need a new teacher.
It has become clear to me that we are just "Striving for words" to no good end.
So I shall bid you farewell.
Shalom
SoyLeche
meh...
Count however you like, but, it's unanimous. Jesus was ressurected on a Sunday:wanderer085 said:
Mathew: In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Mark: And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
Luke: Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
John: The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
SoyLeche said:
Yes. The resurrection day is unanimous, but not the day on which Jesus was crucified. Most people assume Friday, but some scholars think that Jesus was crucified on Thursday.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
SoyLeche said:
Cool. It's based on an argument that Jesus and his accusers would have had to run from place to place in Jerusalem for his "trials" before the Sanhedrin, Pilate, then Herod, and finally Pilate again as well as some Greek grammar and Jewish tradition regarding the Passover.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
SoyLeche said:Good stuff.
Actually, the day of the week doesn't matter much to me. The only thing you get out of it is a possible explanation for Sunday worship, which is what this thread is about
Thanks for the info
You're welcome.
--- It may be a big deal for people who think that Jesus is the Passover Lamb.
d.n.irvin said:
In Genesis chapter 1 God worked on creation for six days and on the seventh day he rested (Gen 2:2-3). He blessed and sanctified the seventh day and made it holy and in the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20) God said "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy." But the Bible never says what day God started creation on. We assume that it was on Sunday because that's the first day of our week and would make Saturday the seventh day but we don't know that. Since we don't know what day was the first day of creation, we can't know what day was the seventh from creation.
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
reyjamiei said:
From the great wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_Creation
The sixth day of Creation week, when Adam was created, was the first day of the following month, either Tishri or Nisan, the first month of either the civil or biblical year, respectively. In both cases, the epoch of the modern calendar was called the molad tohu or mean new moon of chaos, because it occurred before Creation. This epoch was Tishri 1, AM 1 or October 7, 3761 BCE, the latter being the corresponding tabular date (same daylight period) in the proleptic Julian calendar.[3]
In the English-speaking world, one of the most well known estimates in modern times is that of Archbishop James Ussher (15811656), who proposed a date of Sunday, October 23, 4004 BCE, in the Julian calendar. He placed the beginning of this first day of Creation, and hence the exact time of Creation, at the previous nightfall. See the Ussher chronology.[2]
The sixth day of Creation week, when Adam was created, was the first day of the following month, either Tishri or Nisan, the first month of either the civil or biblical year, respectively. In both cases, the epoch of the modern calendar was called the molad tohu or mean new moon of chaos, because it occurred before Creation. This epoch was Tishri 1, AM 1 or October 7, 3761 BCE, the latter being the corresponding tabular date (same daylight period) in the proleptic Julian calendar.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_Creation#_note-Ussher
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
A precise time is often added, as I remember from my reading:
The precise time often cited as Lightfoot's moment of Creation, 9 a.m., and the erroneous belief that he placed his Creation on the same date as Ussher are both due to a partially fabricated 'quote' given by Andrew Dickson White in A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896):
The precise time often cited as Lightfoot's moment of Creation, 9 a.m., and the erroneous belief that he placed his Creation on the same date as Ussher are both due to a partially fabricated 'quote' given by Andrew Dickson White in A History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom (1896):
n the seventeenth century, in his great work, Dr. John Lightfoot, Vice-Chancellor of the University of Cambridge, and one of the most eminent Hebrew scholars of his time, declared, as the result of his most profound and exhaustive study of the Scriptures, that "heaven and earth, centre and circumference, were created all together, in the same instant, and clouds full of water," and that "this work took place and man was created by the Trinity on October 23, 4004 B.C., at nine of the clock in the morning."[6]
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Baptist!!! :screams in abject horror:Ronald said:
Omig----! Noooooooooo!!!I understand that the word appears in Exodus -- just not in the Exodus commandment regarding the sabbath.
I think it "stands alone" from the perspective of scholarship. One can't say that the Exodus account and the Levitican account are the "same thing," because they obviously are not.
Yes, we're arguing words. Words are what transmits understanding. They give form to thought. If our words are incorrect, or not cogent to the issue, then our thinking is probably not cogent, either.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
angellous_evangellous said:
Thanks for putting the Windex on this question!