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Will We Know What Came Before the Big Bang Within the Next 50 Years?

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Before BigBang there where another universe similar to what we live in now, in my understanding :)
The phenomena is mentioned in Quran thus:

[21:31]اَوَ لَمۡ یَرَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡۤا اَنَّ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ کَانَتَا رَتۡقًا فَفَتَقۡنٰہُمَا ؕ وَ جَعَلۡنَا مِنَ الۡمَآءِ کُلَّ شَیۡءٍ حَیٍّ ؕ اَفَلَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 21: Al-Anbiya'

[51:48]وَ السَّمَآءَ بَنَیۡنٰہَا بِاَیۡٮدٍ وَّ اِنَّا لَمُوۡسِعُوۡنَ ﴿۴۸﴾
And We have built the heaven with Our own hands, and verily We have vast powers.*
[51:49]وَ الۡاَرۡضَ فَرَشۡنٰہَا فَنِعۡمَ الۡمٰہِدُوۡنَ ﴿۴۹﴾
And the earth We have spread out, and how excellently do We prepare things!
[51:50]وَ مِنۡ کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ خَلَقۡنَا زَوۡجَیۡنِ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَذَکَّرُوۡنَ ﴿۵۰﴾
And of everything have We created pairs, that you may reflect.
[51:51]فَفِرُّوۡۤا اِلَی اللّٰہِ ؕ اِنِّیۡ لَکُمۡ مِّنۡہُ نَذِیۡرٌ مُّبِیۡنٌ ﴿ۚ۵۱﴾
Flee ye therefore unto Allah. Surely, I am a plain Warner unto you from Him.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 51: Adh-Dhariyat
*The Arabic word mooseuoon could be translated "and we are expanding it"

Does it help?

Regards
 
Last edited:

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
The phenomena is mentioned in Quran thus:

[21:31]اَوَ لَمۡ یَرَ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡۤا اَنَّ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَ الۡاَرۡضَ کَانَتَا رَتۡقًا فَفَتَقۡنٰہُمَا ؕ وَ جَعَلۡنَا مِنَ الۡمَآءِ کُلَّ شَیۡءٍ حَیٍّ ؕ اَفَلَا یُؤۡمِنُوۡنَ ﴿۳۱﴾
Do not the disbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were a closed-up mass, then We opened them out? And We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 21: Al-Anbiya'

[51:48]وَ السَّمَآءَ بَنَیۡنٰہَا بِاَیۡٮدٍ وَّ اِنَّا لَمُوۡسِعُوۡنَ ﴿۴۸﴾
And We have built the heaven with Our own hands, and verily We have vast powers.*
[51:49]وَ الۡاَرۡضَ فَرَشۡنٰہَا فَنِعۡمَ الۡمٰہِدُوۡنَ ﴿۴۹﴾
And the earth We have spread out, and how excellently do We prepare things!
[51:50]وَ مِنۡ کُلِّ شَیۡءٍ خَلَقۡنَا زَوۡجَیۡنِ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَذَکَّرُوۡنَ ﴿۵۰﴾
And of everything have We created pairs, that you may reflect.
[51:51]فَفِرُّوۡۤا اِلَی اللّٰہِ ؕ اِنِّیۡ لَکُمۡ مِّنۡہُ نَذِیۡرٌ مُّبِیۡنٌ ﴿ۚ۵۱﴾
Flee ye therefore unto Allah. Surely, I am a plain Warner unto you from Him.
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 51: Adh-Dhariyat
*The Arabic word mooseuoon could be translated "and we are expanding it"

Does it help?

Regards
Yes, the verses from the Quran is somewhat similar to my own understanding even i follow Buddhism and its teachings :)
Thank you for all the links you added :)
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
The foundation of the theory is the observed cosmological redshift (see the graph from Hubble of his early work, posted by CM).

If you can come up with a different explanation of redshift please msg me. I would love to share the Nobel with you. :)

Seriously, I have lost count of the number of proposed alternatives (going back to Hubble; he hard a hard time with the notion of an expanding universe too BTW, always called it 'apparent expansion') I have read over the years (I was an astronomer). The greatest minds of the 20th century all failed in the effort. That does mean that there is not some some crazy new physics involved that we don't know about but that looks rather unlikely. By the way, this is a bit of a moot point until we figure out what dark matter and energy are.

So what is causing the acceleration?

It seems to me that if the "big bang" fails to address the facts AND is counterintuitive it might be time to jettison it.

This isn't to say it didn't exist (perhaps all the missing matter is beyond the universe) merely that the hypothesis does a poor job of addressing the facts.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
I could agree something happened but this hardly means the universe popped out of a point.


Maybe there is something less than a "dimension" but more than a "point". Perhaps we see "dimensions" because of the way we think rather than there is anything "real" about them. Perhaps "dimensions" don't exist at all in the real world so it just seems like everything came from nothing at all. There was a time I was pretty good at math and mightta been able to define all these terms so they could be manipulated logically (assuming it's even possible).

I, too, have seen some really interesting hypotheses to explain the reality and why we are at this juncture. Some are pure genius but my favorite are those that suggest a tie between time and energy and those that suggest that "space" doesn't exist and we are merely separated by the speed of light (ie-time).

Everything is impossibly complex. Maybe the rules for it are just as complex.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
How did the universe become low entropy to begin with?

The speculation is that existence is eternally cyclical. From time to time it fluctuates into a low entropy state?
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
So what is causing the acceleration?

It seems to me that if the "big bang" fails to address the facts AND is counterintuitive it might be time to jettison it.

This isn't to say it didn't exist (perhaps all the missing matter is beyond the universe) merely that the hypothesis does a poor job of addressing the facts.


The expansion is from the initial event. For a long time we did not know if the expansion would slow and then reverse (Big Crunch) or not. But since the late 90s we have known that the expansion is accelerating and will continue. The cause of expansion is attributed to dark energy, whatever it is.

Anyway, the fact is that the BB does explain all of what observe. Almost all legit work on alternate cosmologies these days is on how things started and the early evolution of the cosmos, especially inflation.

So the BB (in one form or another) is still king. Our universe had a beginning. It has a history. We are the universe made conscious, a bit of cosmic navel-gazing.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
The expansion is from the initial event. For a long time we did not know if the expansion would slow and then reverse (Big Crunch) or not. But since the late 90s we have known that the expansion is accelerating and will continue. The cause of expansion is attributed to dark energy, whatever it is.

Anyway, the fact is that the BB does explain all of what observe. Almost all legit work on alternate cosmologies these days is on how things started and the early evolution of the cosmos, especially inflation.

So the BB (in one form or another) is still king. Our universe had a beginning. It has a history. We are the universe made conscious, a bit of cosmic navel-gazing.

If you throw something upward it slows and then falls.

How might dark energy cause it to accelerate?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Yes, the verses from the Quran is somewhat similar to my own understanding even i follow Buddhism and its teachings :)
Thank you for all the links you added :)
I also accept Buddha as a Messenger/Prophet of G-d.

Regards
_____________
[38:49]وَ اذۡکُرۡ اِسۡمٰعِیۡلَ وَ الۡیَسَعَ وَ ذَاالۡکِفۡلِ ؕ وَ کُلٌّ مِّنَ الۡاَخۡیَارِ ﴿ؕ۴۹﴾
And remember Ishmael and Elisha and Dhu’l-Kifl*; and all were of the best.
[38:50]ہٰذَا ذِکۡرٌ ؕ وَ اِنَّ لِلۡمُتَّقِیۡنَ لَحُسۡنَ مَاٰبٍ ﴿ۙ۵۰﴾
This is a reminder. And the righteous will surely have excellent retreat:
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 38: Sad

* "Dhu’l-Kifl" There is no "p" in Arabic so it changes to "f" therefore it may mean from "Kipl" or "Kapil" and or Kapilvastu:
The Buddha was born into a noble family of the kshatriya varna(Hinduism) in Kapilvastu district of Lumbini zone, Nepal in 563 BCE.. He was called Siddhartha Gautama in his childhood. His father was king Suddhodana, leader of the Shakya clan in what was the growing state of Kosala, and his mother was queen Maya Devi.
Family of Gautama Buddha - Wikipedia
Slight changes do occur when a word/noun travels to other regions of the word.
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
Pretty darn interesting video dealing with entropy, the arrow of time, and the origin and future of the universe....



Comments?
I was thinking the other day that if we are experiencing complexity, it must be by arrangement of the most simple states possible.
I think the binary nature of virtual reality (two states and something dynamic to cause different arrangements) is far more telling than we understand.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
Pretty darn interesting video dealing with entropy, the arrow of time, and the origin and future of the universe....



Comments?
According to my understanding of the theory time itself started at the Big Bang, so it is meaningless to enquire about anything "before" it. In that theory, at least.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Will We Know What Came Before the Big Bang Within the Next 50 Years?

Well the eulogizers of Science and the Science itself are not on one page, it seems. Right?

Regards
______________
"It is a common misconception that the Big Bang was the origin of the universe. In reality, the Big Bang scenario is completely silent about how the universe came into existence in the first place. In fact, the closer we look to time "zero," the less certain we are about what actually happened, because our current description of physical laws do not yet apply to such extremes of nature.

The Big Bang scenario simply assumes that space, time, and energy already existed. But it tells us nothing about where they came from - or why the universe was born hot and dense to begin with."
www.cfa.harvard.edu/
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
Pretty darn interesting video dealing with entropy, the arrow of time, and the origin and future of the universe....
Comments?

Nature turns out to always be stranger than anything we could have possibly imagined. We do NOT live in a clockwork Universe. God is the force in the Universe that keeps our full understanding of nature's behavior just one step beyond our full comprehension.

So we might as well go for the strange whenever we can. I believe our Big Bang was the result of a star collapsing to black hole in a previously existing space-time dimension. Zero=Infinity kind of thing. The Big Bang is also known as a White Hole. Here's a article on it:

https://phys.org/news/2015-10-white-holes.html

There are plenty of stars in our Universe capable of collapsing to black holes to keep the whole thing going.

Just remember the amount of energy going into the acceleration of the Universe far exceeds the amount of energy we have detected so far in the known Universe.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
The laws that govern our universe did not exist so pre big bang may be beyond human conception

I think explaining every laws origin as a requirement to a full understanding of the creation of our Universe is an assumption the will loose ground as we know more. Sort of like coming to understand that the Newtonian view of physical reality is immensely practical but still true within limits within an Einsteinian-relativistic view.

We may come to have cause to see the Universe as a flower which has emerged from a partially visible stalk of some sort rather than a fully self-created eruption of everything out of nothing.

In my own meditations I have found no ground for believing that Nothing is a more likely reality than Something and as such no miracle is required for the case of Something.
 

Phaedrus

Active Member
Who knows really. The thing about science is that its reliance on truth is not in how we want the answers now but instead in how the answers are sought. Reliably, science does the accurate thing by taking things slowly instead of simply presuming an answer without evidence.
 
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