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Did Muhammad authored the Quran?

firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

So bottomline is in your OP you said you believe Muhammed/Cave episode because Muslims believe it. But now you dont believe what Muslims believe. What kind of standard is that?
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

If you dont about this Shia/Sunni matters and their beliefs in which hadith etc etc dont make comments you dont understand. You are wrong. Its not black and white like that.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Obviously not, I don't believe Allah exists.
The whole point of this thread is believing something that no Muslims believe.
All Muslims believe in Allah and its messenger and I don't.
What we have in common is that we share the same information and scriptures.
I have to read the Quran and some Hadith in order to establish my point.
I cannot invent stories, I can read the scriptures and find curiosities that maybe other people have overlooked and wonder about it.
My point is based on facts that can be proven by reading the scriptures (Quran and Hadith).
No I didn't say you are a Shia.
I said that the majority of Sunni Muslims trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith but IF YOU ARE A SHIA (which I don't know if you are) then you maybe don't trust Sahih Bukhari Hadith like them.
The question is (since you insist on that hadith).
What reason do you have to believe that hadith is not authentic or the story in it is not true?
How about being 700 years old?
Click to expand...

Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
 
W

Wasp

Active Member
Bob Jones said:
I learned alot. Just about every other page was a reference to one of his wives or girlfriend having their monthly period. Due to political/fascist correctness,that is all I will say.
Click to expand...
Maybe you really did fall asleep and dreamt that you read the book? Whose translation was it? I should read it. I didn't learn much about menses yet from the Quran.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
firedragon said:
If you dont about this Shia/Sunni matters and their beliefs in which hadith etc etc dont make comments you dont understand.
Click to expand...
I do understand whether you believe it or not.
Don't need to be a genius to figure out the distance between Shias and Sunnies. They kill each other sometimes just because they are on the other side of the fence.
How about answering the questions you are asked?
Is it difficult to answer when your answer can only be an admission that you're wrong?
sooda said:
Most hadiths cannot be authenticated.. and most of them show up 200 years after the death of Muhammed.
Click to expand...
I have news for you. Not even the existence of Allah nor the prophethood of Muhammad can be authenticated.
What do you expect about authenticating the Hadith?
How do you authenticate something that cannot be proven?
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
I do understand whether you believe it or not.
Don't need to be a genius to figure out the distance between Shias and Sunnies. They kill each other sometimes just because they are on the other side of the fence.
How about answering the questions you are asked?
Is it difficult to answer when your answer can only be an admission that you're wrong?

I have news for you. Not even the existence of Allah nor the prophethood of Muhammad can be authenticated.
What do you expect about authenticating the Hadith?
How do you authenticate something that cannot be proven?
Click to expand...

You can't anymore than you can prove the Bible.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
sooda said:
You can't anymore than you can prove the Bible.
Click to expand...
The difference is that the Bible doesn't presume it is the direct word of God.
It is, for the most part, a collection of historical facts.
The Quran, on the other hand, is said to be the word of Allah and only one man claims to have received its words without any witnesses nor any way that can be corroborated.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
firedragon said:
Then why do "YOU" believe a hadith?
Click to expand...
A belief by definition is an act of faith, you cannot prove it one way or the other.
You just use common sense, logic or any other way you consider appropriate to determine if you trust it or not.

Are you ready to answer why you don't trust the Hadith in question?
Any reasons or just don't like the implications of it?
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
The difference is that the Bible doesn't presume it is the direct word of God.
It is, for the most part, a collection of historical facts.
The Quran, on the other hand, is said to be the word of Allah and only one man claims to have received its words without any witnesses nor any way that can be corroborated.
Click to expand...

There are very few historical facts in the Bible... Very few beyond yes there was an Egypt and Babylon.
 
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