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Contradictions in the Bible

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Now I remember. Yes, Paul was the only one who said about 500 people saw Jesus. Given that Paul said he was an apostle of Jesus Christ, that all scripture was given by inspiration of God, that Paul said he did not lie, I accept what he said.

The 1st century accepted Paul to be no less of an authority than Moses. Paul said he was sent by God and that he spoke what God told him to speak. Having some understanding of Paul's gospel, I have no trouble whatsoever seeing how it fits perfectly with the rest of scriptures.

Paul revealed the mystery (1 Cor 2:7, Eph 1:9, Eph 3:3, et. al.) that God had kept to himself until He told Paul. Jesus didn't even know about the mystery ("secret" is a better word). That is why he told his disciples that some of them would live to see his return. The only scriptures Jesus had were Genesis to Malachi. According to them (Daniel specifically) there would be 7 years between his first coming as a lamb led to slaughter and his second coming as King of Kings. He had no idea about God's secret plan to create a new assembly (church) composed of born again believers who were neither Jew nor Gentile. Of course all of that apparently takes some time, 2,000+ years so far. Jesus was correct with the information he had available.

We don't know how much longer this present age will last, but eventually Jesus will return and finish the work God promised Israel. To see God's complete dealing with Israel (and Gentiles who converted), just read Genesis through John, and then go to Revelation. Everything between John and Revelation is God's dealing with the assembly of the body of Christ. Israel is the bride, Christians are the body. The books of Romans through Thessalonians form the Magna Carta of Christianity. They represent the first comma in Isaiah 61:2,

To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;​

You might notice that in Luke 4:19 Jesus stopped in the middle of this verse when reading Isaiah 61:2. Why? He could make the claim that he represented the acceptable year of the Lord, but the day of vengeance was yet in the future, i.e. his second coming. Between those two advents we have the mystery (secret), the age of grace in which we currently live.

All of the above is why Paul is so misunderstood and why so many think he is a fraud. But when properly understood, Paul's revelation of the mystery, that God would make a new creation out of both Jew and Gentile, is the epitome of scripture as far as I can tell.

Have you ever heard of that mystery in the church? Maybe, but odds are that you didn't. Despite the fact that it is "what's happening" today, the churches are by and large silent. For now, score one for Satan I guess. But it'll all come out in the wash!



It is not a good thing to say that Paul was accepted as well as Moses since Moses is a fictional character of the Bible. And I love it how Christians will reinterpret the Bible after the fact when shown to be wrong.

Think about it, why accept Paul as a voice of God? What evidence is there for that? An amazing amount of the Bible relies upon circular reasoning which puts it on the same level as any other holy book.

Lastly if God does not lie, then certain parts of the Old Testament are clearly not to be taken literally. Genesis and Exodus just for a beginning.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
It is not a good thing to say that Paul was accepted as well as Moses since Moses is a fictional character of the Bible. And I love it how Christians will reinterpret the Bible after the fact when shown to be wrong.
I'm not sure what you mean by interpreting the Bible after the fact. Ditto with having shown me to be wrong. I don't feel like you've shown me or any other Christian to be wrong. It seems more like an opinion than fact.

Think about it, why accept Paul as a voice of God? What evidence is there for that? An amazing amount of the Bible relies upon circular reasoning which puts it on the same level as any other holy book.

Rom 12:2,

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
It is possible for every individual to prove the scriptures. Problem is, many folks want to stay conformed to this world, along with the deception of their five senses.

Lastly if God does not lie, then certain parts of the Old Testament are clearly not to be taken literally. Genesis and Exodus just for a beginning.
Well, God does use figures of speech in the Bible which should not be taken literally, but to summarily dismiss all of Genesis and Exodus seems a bit presumptuous, certainly no less so than is usually leveled at those who choose to believe.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
I'm not sure what you mean by interpreting the Bible after the fact. Ditto with having shown me to be wrong. I don't feel like you've shown me or any other Christian to be wrong. It seems more like an opinion than fact.



Rom 12:2,

And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
It is possible for every individual to prove the scriptures. Problem is, many folks want to stay conformed to this world, along with the deception of their five senses.


Well, God does use figures of speech in the Bible which should not be taken literally, but to summarily dismiss all of Genesis and Exodus seems a bit presumptuous, certainly no less so than is usually leveled at those who choose to believe.

Genesis and Exodus were borrowed from the Babylonians, Egyptians and North coast Canaanites.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I can't say I agree with the origin of Genesis
It's been proven. Sorry.

Our brains are effectively contrast registering machines. In white out snow conditions we can not see. The same for pitch darkness. We need contrast to make sense of the world around us. The Tao, on the other hand, is said to be unfathomable. It is described as an undifferentiated whole. As such we are not equipped to register it's existence.
Hindu has a concept kind of like this, but it comes to a different conclusion. It refers to "sun vision" and "moon vision." In sun vision, everything is contrasted with everything else. We need that kind of vision. In moon vision, everything sinks into sameness with everything else. We need that kind of vision too. We need to be able to see subtle differences that make for uniqueness. We also need to be able to see the inherent unity of all things. Wisdom is knowing the difference and what one needs when.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If that is true, then, according to Gen 3:4-5, we are gods and none of us die. Is that really the truth. If so, then I can just zap anybody who doesn't believe just like me? :)
You are misunderstanding Genesis. It cannot be taken literally. You are not reasoning logically.
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
The stories are didactic literature not history. When the Hebrews were exposed to the cultural richness of Babylon they realized they needed laws and rituals and a history and identity of their own.

Some things Jesus said were in parables, but not all. The Old Testament is history. It is all the Word of God. Even the movements of Israel in history are a revelation from God.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
There are better translations that take advantage of older source texts.


It doesn’t, actually.

Though older has it's value, it doesn't mean it's the best or most accurate. Comparison is made of many manuscripts. The more manuscripts you have to compare to, the better.

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Some things Jesus said were in parables, but not all. The Old Testament is history. It is all the Word of God. Even the movements of Israel in history are a revelation from God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

There was no global flood and there was no Exodus.. Joshua never defeated the Canaanites not did he ever have a big army. The population of Palestine was quite small.. Jerusalem was less than 10 acres and a thousand people. What the OT is really good at is delusional exaggerations.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · The result is what he calls a “minimalist view.” 1 But whether you accept Geva’s population estimates or those of various other scholars he cites, to the modern observer the ancient city of Jerusalem can only be described as “tiny”—with population estimates at thousands and tens of thousands during many periods of the city’s ...
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Some things Jesus said were in parables, but not all. The Old Testament is history. It is all the Word of God. Even the movements of Israel in history are a revelation from God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

There was no global flood and there was no Exodus.. Joshua never defeated the Canaanites nor did he ever have a big army. The population of Palestine was quite small.. Jerusalem was less than 10 acres and a thousand people. What the OT is really good at is delusional exaggerations.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · The result is what he calls a “minimalist view.” 1 But whether you accept Geva’s population estimates or those of various other scholars he cites, to the modern observer the ancient city of Jerusalem can only be described as “tiny”—with population estimates at thousands and tens of thousands during many periods of the city’s ...
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Some things Jesus said were in parables, but not all. The Old Testament is history. It is all the Word of God. Even the movements of Israel in history are a revelation from God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

There was no global flood and there was no Exodus.. Joshua never defeated the Canaanites nor did he ever have a big army. The population of Palestine was quite small.. Jerusalem was less than 10 acres and a thousand people. What the OT is really good at is delusional exaggerations.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · The result is what he calls a “minimalist view.” 1 But whether you accept Geva’s population estimates or those of various other scholars he cites, to the modern observer the ancient city of Jerusalem can only be described as “tiny”—with population estimates at thousands and tens of thousands during many periods of the city’s ...
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Some things Jesus said were in parables, but not all. The Old Testament is history. It is all the Word of God. Even the movements of Israel in history are a revelation from God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

There was no global flood and there was no Exodus.. Joshua never defeated the Canaanites nor did he ever have a big army. The population of Palestine was quite small.. Jerusalem was less than 10 acres and a thousand people. What the OT is really good at is delusional exaggerations.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · The result is what he calls a “minimalist view.” 1 But whether you accept Geva’s population estimates or those of various other scholars he cites, to the modern observer the ancient city of Jerusalem can only be described as “tiny”—with population estimates at thousands and tens of thousands during many periods of the city’s ...
 

Good-Ole-Rebel

Well-Known Member
There was no global flood and there was no Exodus.. Joshua never defeated the Canaanites not did he ever have a big army. The population of Palestine was quite small.. Jerusalem was less than 10 acres and a thousand people. What the OT is really good at is delusional exaggerations.

Ancient Jerusalem: The Village, the Town, the City ...
https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-sites-places/jerusalem/ancient...
Jan 11, 2019 · The result is what he calls a “minimalist view.” 1 But whether you accept Geva’s population estimates or those of various other scholars he cites, to the modern observer the ancient city of Jerusalem can only be described as “tiny”—with population estimates at thousands and tens of thousands during many periods of the city’s ...

How about Jesus? Was there a Jesus? Or is He more delusional exaggeration?

Good-Ole-Rebel
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Though older has it's value, it doesn't mean it's the best or most accurate. Comparison is made of many manuscripts. The more manuscripts you have to compare to, the better.

Good-Ole-Rebel
There are not that many old "manuscripts" . This is a term that some ignorant believers get bamboozled by. Biblical manuscripts are any writings of the Bible or on the Bible by hand. The number of them per year keeps increasing until the fifteenth century. It is not hard to figure out why. Of the New Testament the earliest even partial gospel is from the second century CE. Comparing manuscripts does not appear to be very reliable since even the oldest were generations after the event. More than time enough for a full fledged mythology to take root and flourish.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Though older has it's value, it doesn't mean it's the best or most accurate. Comparison is made of many manuscripts. The more manuscripts you have to compare to, the better.

Good-Ole-Rebel
"Most accurate" isn't really the aim. "Most authentic" is the goal. You see, we're digging through layers of redaction and translation -- and retranslation. The less layers, the more authentic the product.

The KJV is a wonderful translation -- especially for its time. But there are a few translations that are better. I like the NRSV, generally.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Some things Jesus said were in parables, but not all. The Old Testament is history. It is all the Word of God. Even the movements of Israel in history are a revelation from God.

Good-Ole-Rebel
History, yes, but not in terms of factual reporting. This history is mythic history, by and large. I still say a class in hermeneutics would be of help to you.
 
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