Did Muhammad authored the Quran?

firedragon said:

2. How do you make the claim that Gabriel didnt identify himself and explain that it was a revelation from God? Have you read the ahadith (?) you are speaking about or you heard them from someone who didnt give you the full narration?

Click to expand...

Quran (96:1) Recite1 in the name of your Lord2 Who created,3 (96:2) created man from a clot of congealed blood.4 (96:3) Recite: and your Lord is Most Generous, (96:4) Who taught by the pen,5 (96:5) taught man what he did not know.6

You can see it by yourself, Angel Gabriel never identified himself and although it clearly mentions what appears to be a divine being, it doesn't identify who this God is?
The rest I explained in the OP.

loverofhumanity said:

I think the real answer to this question if anyone sincerely seeks it is that if it was fabricated then it can be reproduced & replicated very easily.

Click to expand...

I do believe it is all fabricated but I also understand that it took a unique person with the right personality, at the right time and in the right place to accomplish it.
Islam, its expansion and durability is nothing short than incredible but that doesn't prove the existense of a real God behind it.
The fact that something like this happened 1400 years ago responds by itself to your claim that it could be easily replicated.
No, it cannot be easily replicated, time has proven that it cannot.
Why the success of Islam?
The aggressive nature at the beginning, expanding and holding grounds and the aggressive nature in holding its members.
Islam recruits members in a much more aggressive manner than any other religion in our times and maybe in history.
The population of every new territory conquered is immediately put under tremendous pressure to convert to the religion.
"Fight them until they convert or pay the jizya "
Look at the Muslim territories today. There were no Muslims in Africa and the Middle East before Islam began their expansion.
Egypt Copts Christians are having a hard time surviving under the pressure from Muslims.
The same happens in every single Muslim country, there is always the pressure to convert you to the religion.
A lot of people choose to leave when Muslims are the majority, it happens everywhere, even in some neighborhoods in western countries now.
The claim that there is freedom of religion in Islam is absolutely false.
If you leave Islam, you have abandoned your immediate family and social friends and you could end up risking your life. That's how it works, Islam is very jealous of its members. it is going to do what it can to retain them more than any other religion.
That's how Islam has been so successful in a nutshell.

Raymann said:

Quran (96:1) Recite1 in the name of your Lord2 Who created,3 (96:2) created man from a clot of congealed blood.4 (96:3) Recite: and your Lord is Most Generous, (96:4) Who taught by the pen,5 (96:5) taught man what he did not know.6

You can see it by yourself, Angel Gabriel never identified himself and although it clearly mentions what appears to be a divine being, it doesn't identify who this God is?
The rest I explained in the OP.

Click to expand...

You left out a part of my question. Maybe you didnt see that. Let me cut and paste that. Try and not missout this time.

2. How do you make the claim that Gabriel didnt identify himself and explain that it was a revelation from God? Have you read the ahadith (?) you are speaking about or you heard them from someone who didnt give you the full narration?

You answered by quoting one verse from theQUran but your story is not from the Quran and your answer does not answer the question.

Also, you left out the second question. And you have not explained it in the OP.

Thanks anyway.

I have read an official English translation from Saudi Arabia and an annotated version. In both cases I could only read about 10 pages a day before falling asleep.

Bob Jones said:

I have read an official English translation from Saudi Arabia and an annotated version. In both cases I could only read about 10 pages a day before falling asleep.

Click to expand...

Thus?

I learned many things and then the Hadith.

firedragon said:

You answered by quoting one verse from theQUran but your story is not from the Quran and your answer does not answer the question.

Click to expand...

My story is based on the Quran, but also on many other readings I made but I cannot point to a specific one at this point.
See Waraka ibn Nawfal to see about the encounter of Kadihah's cousin with Muhammad.
Maybe you'd like to leave a link to the Hadith you say has the full narration.
I don't know the answer to your first question:
"Why was Muhammad in the cave?"
Some say he was meditating but I didn't focus on the reason.

If it was Allah His plan that the Koran was given, then if Muhammad was in the cave was also Allah's plan

Muffled said:

I believe if you really believe He is a prophet then you should believe Him when He says He is God.

Click to expand...

But not that some says he says. Or that someone said someone else said that it was said that he had dinner at a certain time with certain people for certain reasons.

Really if someone is God and educated he might take the time to write it down.

Raymann said:

My story is based on the Quran, but also on many other readings I made but I cannot point to a specific one at this point.
See Waraka ibn Nawfal to see about the encounter of Kadihah's cousin with Muhammad.
Maybe you'd like to leave a link to the Hadith you say has the full narration.
I don't know the answer to your first question:
"Why was Muhammad in the cave?"
Some say he was meditating but I didn't focus on the reason.

Click to expand...

No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran. But the story is in the Hadith.

Anyway, the hadith quotes the Quranic verse that explicitly says in the name of God, the generous, the one taught by noon, the pen etc etc. So you said why didnt Gabriel say its from God, but he did. So you have not understood this hadith.

My question is this, let me ask you for the third time. At least now maybe you could give an answer. Please try and not avoid this.

You said that you believe Muhammed was in the cave. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH SO MUCH? DO YOU BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH OR JUST THIS ONE? IF YOU BELIEVE THIS WHY NOT BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH?

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH?

Wasp said:

But not that some says he says. Or that someone said someone else said that it was said that he had dinner at a certain time with certain people for certain reasons.

Really if someone is God and educated he might take the time to write it down.

Click to expand...

Like so many other religions..Confucius,Tao,Buddha, Shiva, Hesus..etc..all of them are based on an oral tradition. In those days only the super elite had an education. Mistakes, embellishments,interlopers and forgeries was very common before the printing press.

1213 said:

So, are you saying they believe what God’s prophet Jesus says?

Click to expand...

They believe in all the prophets.

Bob Jones said:

Like so many other religions..Confucius,Tao,Buddha, Shiva, Hesus..etc..all of them are based on an oral tradition. In those days only the super elite had an education. Mistakes, embellishments,interlopers and forgeries was very common before the printing press.

Click to expand...

But not in Quran. Quran is same word for word and letter for letter is was in Muhammad's time because of the system of memorization by heart from generations to generation till our times. And that system is lacking in others. Right, please?

Regards

paarsurrey said:

But not in Quran. Quran is same word for word and letter for letter is was in Muhammad's time because of the system of memorization by heart from generations to generation till our times. And that system is lacking in others. Right, please?

Regards

Click to expand...

says who? The Quran did not appear until scores of years had past after his death. What is the name of the scribe who wrote all of this down? If god knew that the prophet could not read or write, why did Gabriela ask him?.Like the bible the Quran cannot be substantiated by any evidence. It is an oral recitation subject to errors, interlopers and forgeries. Now there is a push in the Western world to white wash the original text to please liberal bleeding hearts. That is a mortal sin under Shari law to alter the Quran!

74x12 said:

Yes, he obviously did give commands based on his own desires. Also Muhammad changes his mind on some things he claimed earlier on. That's why Muslims believe the writings that come last supersede the earlier ones. But honestly the earlier ones were usually the better ones. So we have a real problem.

Click to expand...

What do supersede the earlier ones?

firedragon said:

You think. Brother, "I think" means "I assume". So you have made assumptions.

Click to expand...

i assume based on my thinking, Brother.

paarsurrey said:

But not in Quran. Quran is same word for word and letter for letter is was in Muhammad's time because of the system of memorization by heart from generations to generation till our times. And that system is lacking in others. Right, please?

Regards

Click to expand...

Here is a fairly informative tutorial..check out.

firedragon said:

No. Your story is not based on the Quran. Its based on the Hadith. That hadith speaks of the first verse that was supposedly revealed to Muhammed. That verse is in the Quran. But the story is in the Hadith.

Click to expand...

Now you are getting paranoid. For the last time let me explain.
I did my research based PRIMARILY ON THE QURAN. The Quran is first for me, then the hadith if I need further information but I don't go for the hadith first.
When I realized Angel Gabriel didn't introduce himself I went straight to the Quran, at that point I don't care what any hadith says, all I care is what the Quran says. The Quran confirms Angel Gabriel didn't introduce himself and according to the translation of the Quran I read, it never says the messages are from Allah or any specific God.
It refers to God as "Lord", that to me is not very specific.
My next step is to figure out why Muhammad thinks Angel Gabriel was the one communicating the messages and that the messages were from God?
That's where the Hadith explains the rest of the story.
Did Waraqa Ibn Nawfal Teach The Prophet?
Notice that in that Hadith there is no mention of the Quran.
Now again, why do I believe Muhammad was in the cave and why I believe in the hadith?
Just because it is the overwhelming consensus that that is how it happened, no other reason.
There is no conspiracy theory here.

leov said:

it took a few hundred years to complete Koran. I think that "the Cow" was original part. I think the situation was similar to what happened to Abraham and Paul - a revelation. That area was where many Christian heretics, Gnostics of all colors , e.t.c. escaped Roman persecutions.

Click to expand...

No. There is no evidence to say that it took a few hundred years to complete the Quran. There are a few evangelists who make this allusion online but that's because they lack knowledge in any aspect of the subject they speak of. But they speak a lot because its appealing and obviously you have heard this because its quite frequently repeated. First, their manuscript evidence is presented in a rhetorical fashion. For example, the Bible canon (New Testament) has Gospel of John. This book is deemed by scholars to have been written around 100-120 A.D. But the manuscript evidence will show you that the earliest manuscript is a small fragment called P52. 2 inches maybe. A small fragment written in papyrus. This is the oldest dated New Testament manuscript ever found. Just because the manuscript is that small doesn't mean those few sentences found in it were the only words written at the time. Thats a childish assessment to make and bible scholars dont make that kind of assumptions. Though the fragment of the manuscript is small, the gospel was written much earlier and definitely had more words than that fragment. But the double standards set by these evangelists is that 16 folios dated mid 7th century lets say means thats it. Its only 16 folios. So the Quran evolved through time. Wrong assessment. Not worthy.

You thought the Cow was the original part??? Thats wrong and has no basis. So you thought wrong. Next time, find out. Do research.

Peace.

Raymann said:

Now you are getting paranoid. For the last time let me explain.
I did my research based PRIMARILY ON THE QURAN. The Quran is first for me, then the hadith if I need further information but I don't go for the hadith first.
When I realized Angel Gabriel didn't introduce himself I went straight to the Quran, at that point I don't care what any hadith says, all I care is what the Quran says. The Quran confirms Angel Gabriel didn't introduce himself and according to the translation of the Quran I read, it never says the messages are from Allah or any specific God.
It refers to God as "Lord", that to me is not very specific.
My next step is to figure out why Muhammad thinks Angel Gabriel was the one communicating the messages and that the messages were from God?
That's where the Hadith explains the rest of the story.
Did Waraqa Ibn Nawfal Teach The Prophet?
Notice that in that Hadith there is no mention of the Quran.
Now again, why do I believe Muhammad was in the cave and why I believe in the hadith?
Just because it is the overwhelming consensus that that is how it happened, no other reason.
There is no conspiracy theory here.

Click to expand...

Alright. Forget the Quran.

Why not answer this question? Is this the third time I ask this? Lets see if you ignore this again. But I presume that you will ignore this question because you have several times. Well, one could hope not. So here goes.

You said that you believe Muhammed was in the cave. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH SO MUCH? DO YOU BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH OR JUST THIS ONE? IF YOU BELIEVE THIS WHY NOT BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH?

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH? This Hadith is found in a book dated 700 years after Muhammed died. 700 years. So again, why would you believe this hadith? Do you really really believe this story? Why?

firedragon said:

Alright. Forget the Quran.

Why not answer this question? Is this the third time I ask this? Lets see if you ignore this again. But I presume that you will ignore this question because you have several times. Well, one could hope not. So here goes.

You said that you believe Muhammed was in the cave. WHY DO YOU BELIEVE IT? WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH SO MUCH? DO YOU BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH OR JUST THIS ONE? IF YOU BELIEVE THIS WHY NOT BELIEVE ALL THE HADITH?

WHY DO YOU BELIEVE THIS HADITH? This Hadith is found in a book dated 700 years after Muhammed died. 700 years. So again, why would you believe this hadith? Do you really really believe this story? Why?

Click to expand...

Where there any witnesses who saw him in the cave at his first revelation?