I believe Adam and Eve were real people.
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Were Adam and Eve real people?
- Thread starter Katieb123
- Start date
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
How do you deal with the evidence to the contrary?
What evidence?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Oh, that's right. You won't let yourself understand the concept of evidence.
Let's first to over the concept of evidence then I will gladly start to spoon feed you some. Okay?
Ohhh.... you don't have any! OK.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Now please. Even you know that you just broke the Ninth Commandment.Ohhh.... you don't have any! OK.
You may think that you understand what evidence is, but I am very sure that you don't. Why are you afraid to learn? If you do understand by some wild fluke our discussion will not take very long.
Once you demonstrate an understanding of what is and what is not evidence then we can move on.
Etritonakin
Well-Known Member
The fruit literally eaten was "good for food" -and "to make one wise" -but the tree of life is obedience to God alone -whereas the tree of the knowledge of good and evil makes us wise by experiencing both good and evil. Eating the perfectly good literal fruit was not the issue -it was that God said not to do so. Their sin was the beginning of God showing them he was who he said he was -by all of human experience (after Adam). Before that Adam and Eve didn't know God from Adam
.Those who wrote scripture -especially the "begat"s -definitely believed they were real.
I think it "historically" likely that Adam and Eve were real people -but what is commonly believed about them -and Genesis -isn't actually biblical.
Adam is called "the first man" elsewhere in scripture -and Eve "the mother of all the living" -HOWEVER, the word "MAN" used in Genesis is not necessarily the same as the word "MAN" we now use.
Adam was the first like Adam. Scripture DOES NOT state that their were no other "humanoids" -or even "people" -at the time Adam was directly created -and it is also interesting to note that Eve was made FROM ADAM'S MATERIAL.
What is stated in the bible is that Cain went out of Eden -to Nod -and found a wife. He was also worried that anyone else who found him would kill him. All of that requires that other "people" existed outside of Eden -but they were not of Adam's line. Some believe the "Nephilim" (giants/tyrants) were the offspring of humans and angels, but scripture indicates that angels are not "given in marriage" -which equates to simply becoming "one flesh"/having sex in the bible.
That is likely the differentiation between "sons of God" (Adam's line) and "daughters of men" (other lines).
Adam was the first TO BE MADE IN THE IMAGE AND LIKENESS OF GOD -with the potential to live forever -and was the beginning of God making "man" into the children of God -eventually to be made spirits. Eve was the mother "of all the living".
We may similarly use the word "man" -and it can refer even to different species. Early man, modern man, etc.
"Let us make man in our image" can also mean... 'let us make man' -already living and breeding -'in our image' -by building in the the character necessary to become immortal without making a mess of eternity.
Though Adam was directly created, it does not mean God did not have a reference in/from previous creative activity and/or "humanoids" reproducing "after their kind" -which means lack of direct lineage could be the ONLY difference in his DNA vs other "humanoids" -unless there was some specific design tweak which made Adam's line better prepared to be affected by what God had planned for them -and to eventually become the children of God. If God were able to design humans who reproduced after their kind, he would also be able to create on directly -or tweak the design in any way at any time.
What the bible does say is that their was some sort of thing similar to an extinction event which required the RENEWAL of the earth as described in Genesis.
Again -God would have had reference for creating those animals IN THE PAST.
"In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth" -a very vague statement -and no time reference or frame is given.
The next line should read (check the definition of the word usually translated "was") "and the earth HAD BECOME formless and void" -or "waste and ruin" TO AN UNSPECIFIED DEGREE -except where few specifics are given.
A general time reference IS given by the fact that Lucifer -who was perfect when created and eventually rebelled -had ALREADY rebelled by the time he interacted with Adam and Eve -which means he had already "ascend"ed "above the heights of the clouds" -and had already been cast back down to Earth.
The sinning angels "kept not their former estate" -which is likely how the earth became waste and ruin (at least that time) -and needed to be renewed in preparation for Adam, etc.
Notice that when the "spirit of God" (the Word creating by such) moved upon the face of the waters, the waters WERE ALREADY THERE.
What is described next is not the initial creation of the earth -or celestial bodies.
The water and land had to be separated (reversal of ice melt?) -Light had to be provided for some unspecified reason (atmosphere blocking light or a dimmed sun?).
The JUXTAPOSITION of various celestial bodies in relation to the earth are then corrected.
“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night.
That does not say it was their initial creation -and is similar to saying "I made the candle to shine its light upon mine desk" -which could be by taking an already-burning candle and moving it, etc.
Anyway -we tend to read scripture and get from it what we have heard already -rather than really studying it -and what the definitions of the words allow.
In summary -I believe Adam and Eve were real -but that has nothing to do with the age of the Earth, evolution, humans/humanoids on earth previously, etc.
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Skwim
Veteran Member
MikeDwight
Well-Known Member
Well what an enthusiastic cartoon strip. Well wouldn't it hurt everybody's most basic view throughout not to accept the premise. This is throughout the Bible, it would be reading something 1,000 years old when they Wrote Solomon 2, it would be 1,400 years old tradition when Jesus Christ said, in the Beginning, they were made, Male and Female, for God is forgiving of Sin, and Original Sin that we are all fallen without Jesus, and God made them as Adam and Eve in the Garden is the only way to "Marriage" from Jesus Christ. You'd be lost to how the Tree of Knowledge has been tossed into the lake of Fire in Revelation 200 years older so 1,600 years old, when Jesus Christ brings the Tree of Life upon the Church of God with a river of life down the center of the City. This Tree of Life that Could be eaten from at the very first story in Genesis.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, but the problem is that you have disqualified yourself for asking for evidence. I need to remind you that you are afraid to even learn what is and what is not evidence. When you do not understand a concept you are in no position to make demands regarding it when you yourself refuse to learn.Let me see... you said
And then you don't offer any...
Once again, why are you afraid to learn what is and what is not evidence? Is it because you are trying to maintain a plausible deniability? If you knew what was evidence then many of your claims would be lies if you made them with that knowledge.
The ostrich defense does not really work.
MJFlores
Well-Known Member
Adam and Eve in Paradise is literal.
It is not allegorical or symbolic
The Book of Genesis does not mention it was an apple - it was the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.
However, apple is mentioned first in:
Deuteronomy 32:10 New International Version (NIV)
In a desert land he found him,
in a barren and howling waste.
He shielded him and cared for him;
he guarded him as the apple of his eye,
And that apple is allegorical, a figure of speech.
This is what the Bible says:
Ecclesiastes 7:20 New International Version (NIV)
Indeed, there is no one on earth who is righteous,
no one who does what is right and never sins.
And what does it mean to sin? From the Bible not from our opinions.
1 John 3:4 New International Version (NIV)
Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.
Now why do humans sin? The bible again has the answer and this time it was spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ.
John 8:34 New International Version (NIV)
Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Breaking free from being a slave to sin is another topic.
God made Adam from the dust (elements) of the earth, but he made Eve from the rib of Adam. (using his DNA)
Being made in God's image and likeness means that we possess God's moral qualities, which are lacking in the animal kingdom. Because we were created to be caretakers of God's earth and its creatures, we were given God's attributes so as to be worthy custodians of God's creation. But in our sinful state, we have made a right hash of things.
Hebrews 2:9....
"But we do see Jesus, who was made a little lower than angels, now crowned with glory and honor for having suffered death, so that by God’s undeserved kindness he might taste death for everyone."
If the perfect man Jesus was "made lower than the angels" when in human form, then where does that leave us?
The only ones we were to have dominion over were the creatures that would share our planet.....we did not even have dominion over other humans.
Dell
Asteroid insurance?
If there is a human adam and eve in our dna it wouldn't have been from a couple just 6000 Years ago but further back. Homo sapiens past 200,000+ years ago. But with Neanderthals mixed in some of our DNA it pushes the idea even further back to 800,000+ years ago. The first conception by male and female in our dna would have been far from human... so what really is adam and eve?
Adam and eve would have to be the last couple who's dna survived to produce all humans today, where others died out. It wouldn't have made them the first humans. If you go further back then adam and eves parents they could have been related back to another couple and so on and so on until the first reproducing life.
The bibles story of adam and eve is an obvious bronze age attempt to explain first man as created by the God they invented or believed in by predecessors.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why did you run away again? Is learning what is and what is not evidence that threatening to you? I promise to be exceedingly polite if we discuss it
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
It's both. It's literal, and there is allegory.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
How is it literal? What parts are true?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I don't quite understand. There is no time in human history that there were only two people. So did the "garden" involve all people?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So it did not involve the countless other people alive at that time? What did they do wrong?