God and Evolution

j1i said:

The most stupid theory of human despair is the theory of evolution
The Qur'an rejects the theory of evolution for Charles Robert Darwin at all
read this verse in quran
His command is only when He intends a thing that He says to it, "Be," and it is.

First, it shows God's inability to create according to His will and how He wants it

It shows that God was all he could start without a sensible motivation

we as a human being, if you are hungry, do not eat food evolutionarily
Eat meat, chicken and your stomach like a blender

We make tools from wood from feathers from bones

But it does not mean that wood is automatically transformed into a chair with four legs because of evolution, but because of innovation

There are two reasons
Either Intentional gameplay in Terminology to suit our desires or we are stupid

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Some here sure are.

Subduction Zone said:

The "blind chance" demonstrates that you do not understand a very simple concept of evolution:

Populations evolve, not individual organisms. That means that when there is a population there will be a range of traits. As the environment changes different subsets of the population will thrive though natural selection. That takes away a huge part of the randomness that evolution is accused of having.

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I understand the concept that populations evolve, not individual organisms. But essentially I am speaking of the beginning of life, please -- not abiogenesis which seems to be such a sticking point, but rather, evolution insofar as the first living organisms. These organisms did not consciously decide to become what they would become. I haven't got to the point of paleontology yet in reference to dating fossils, but, as you probably figured out, I don't believe in what is said to be the "new earth" idea. Nevertheless, I haven't yet researched in depth the dating of fossils.

YoursTrue said:

I understand the concept that populations evolve, not individual organisms. But essentially I am speaking of the beginning of life, please -- not abiogenesis which seems to be such a sticking point, but rather, evolution insofar as the first living organisms. These organisms did not consciously decide to become what they would become. I haven't got to the point of paleontology yet in reference to dating fossils, but, as you probably figured out, I don't believe in what is said to be the "new earth" idea. Nevertheless, I haven't yet researched in depth the dating of fossils.

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The development of the first living organisms is abiogenesis. You appear to be contradicting yourself.

As to dating fossils there are two sorts of dates. There are relative dates. We can tell which fossils are older than others and that was first recognized by a Christian. Steno's Law of Superposition tells you that in undisturbed strata that the oldest layers are those on the bottom. That should be rather obvious. The older material had to be laid down first and then those above that would be younger. The exceptions can be seen in areas of strong folding and thrusting. But these events leave evidence too. For the most part older material is towards the lower levels younger material is towards the top. And the fossils tell us that this is consistent all around the world:

Law of superposition - Wikipedia

Cambrian fossils are older than Ordovician fossils because when the two occur at the same site the Ordovician fossils are on top. This dating system existed long before radiometric dating.


And that brings us to radiometric dating. Radiometric dating gives us absolute dates. The problem is that most sedimentary rocks cannot be dated with this method. But occasionally around the world we will find a layer of volcanic ash or other igneous rock that allows a specific stratum that can be dated. By looking at the fossil assemblage of that layer we can tell where it would lie in the geologic column. It gives us one data point. All around the world this has happened thousands and thousands of times so that working along with relative dates we can now look at a series of fossils and get a very close date without radiometric dating.

ecco said:

You are probably right to state that the Quran rejects evolution.
That proves that the Quran is not the divine revelation of a God.
That proves that the Quran is nothing more than the ramblings of an ignorant 7th Century camel rider.

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As usual
A provocative response that does not reflect a person's desire to learn

I speak logic and scientific evidence
Being it's a theory
Science cannot provide a single proof that organisms evolve
Only a random linking process between creatures is called a theory
Place a thousand lines under the theoretical word
The theory implies true and false probability
What was my fault that I denied the theory
Do not attack the Koran, he did not harm you

camel rides are usually popular habits
Like riding a cow in America (cowboy)
Or ruthless bullfighting in Spain, which is the Vatican side

j1i said:

Science cannot provide a single proof that organisms evolve

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Here is where you failed.

Subduction Zone said:

Here is where you failed.

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Science cannot transform an organism by proving that it is a development theory
You just change God's creation

There is a difference between evolution and change or change in creation

We mess with terms

Subduction Zone said:

No, the claim was not that you lie to Allah. By claiming that the myths of the Bible, or in your case the Quran are true you in effect call your version of god a liar. You may not realize this. You would need some education in the sciences to understand it. But the evidence for evolution is so strong that it appears the only way that the myths of Genesis could be true is if God planted almost endless false evidence leading away from the Genesis myths. Now why would he do that?

And oh my! Not Ray Comfort. You could not have relied on a more idiotic source. You make yourself look like a poe by doing so. Not only idiotic but dishonest as well. Surely you can do better than that.

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I am not here to convince you of the Koran or to teach Islam
I am here to introduce the understanding of the existence of the Creator
religious books may be mutilated agreed with you


And the non-living material from where it came ?
Life came from nothing
Life came from inanimate substances and chemical reactions

I try to understand the way atheists think and agnosticism
And how to defend their ideas and try to market it
There must be an exquisite maker

It does not mean people differ in understanding God because of the absence of truth this means a marketer to deny it

We try to decipher the gas pyramids and every scientist puts his imagination, but does not mean to deny the pyramids

What evidence there is no maker

There is no evidence that all of these objects came from scratch
And if it came from scratch, who Find it is or who the created

It is not fair to deny the powerful force that brought about existence

This superpower brought existence
the superpower who created water
And from the water that is like a painting, he draw any object he want and make it alive

j1i said:

Science cannot transform an organism by proving that it is a development theory
You just change God's creation

There is a difference between evolution and change or change in creation

We mess with terms

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You keep repeating your errors. Why not try to learn?

j1i said:

I speak logic and scientific evidence
Being it's a theory
Science cannot provide a single proof that organisms evolve

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We've directly observed it happening. It's as proven as the existence of gravity.

j1i said:

I am not here to convince you of the Koran or to teach Islam
I am here to introduce the understanding of the existence of the Creator
religious books may be mutilated agreed with you

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The problem is that no reliable evidence for a creator can be found. And since the Koran has quite a few errors in it not trying to convert others is a good thing.

And the non-living material from where it came ?
Life came from nothing
Life came from inanimate substances and chemical reactions

I try to understand the way atheists think and agnosticism
And how to defend their ideas and try to market it
There must be an exquisite maker

Click to expand...

Why must there be a maker? No hand waving please. A sound and rational argument must be made.

It does not mean people differ in understanding God because of the absence of truth this means a marketer to deny it

We try to decipher the gas pyramids and every scientist puts his imagination, but does not mean to deny the pyramids

What evidence there is no maker

There is no evidence that all of these objects came from scratch
And if it came from scratch, who Find it is or who the created

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You are quite mistaken.. There is evidence. It appears that you may not understand the concept of evidence. Christian creationists have to keep themselves ignorant of that concept. It looks as if that is the case for Islam as well.

A!so you are making a gross error in assuming that if one accepts reality that one has to be an atheist. That is not the case. There are countless Christians and even Muslims that accept the theory of evolution. You should not be so quick to insult others of your own faith.

It is not fair to deny the powerful force that brought about existence

This superpower brought existence
the superpower who created water
And from the water that is like a painting, he draw any object he want and make it alive

Click to expand...

Again, simply claiming that there had to be a creator is not very convincing.

The fact that all of the scientific evidence out there tells us that we are apes does not deny the existence of a God. It only tells us how that God, if he exists, created the universe that we live in.

Subduction Zone said:

Here is where you failed.

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I am not sure if it is funny or sad, but no religious person--even me--has ever demonstrated objectively, any assertion about their religion.

It is obvious that since they cannot defeat science on a level playing field, they must create a straw man of science and make it a religion so that they can beat it down.

j1i said:

As usual
A provocative response that does not reflect a person's desire to learn

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I have no desire to learn more about your religious beliefs from you.

j1i said:

I speak logic and scientific evidence
Being it's a theory
Science cannot provide a single proof that organisms evolve
Only a random linking process between creatures is called a theory

Click to expand...

Your above comment proves that you do not understand the basics of science.

I believe you are old enough to have been exposed to science. Therefore, you should consider the true meaning of your comment: "a person's desire to learn". You obviously have no desire to learn.

j1i said:

What was my fault that I denied the theory
Do not attack the Koran, he did not harm you

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I'll repeat, your fault was that you don't even understand basic science.
People's reliance on and belief in religions causes scientific ignorance. Ignorance of science is harmful to civilization.


Ignorance!

Subduction Zone said:

The problem is that no reliable evidence for a creator can be found. And since the Koran has quite a few errors in it not trying to convert others is a good thing.



Why must there be a maker? No hand waving please. A sound and rational argument must be made.



You are quite mistaken.. There is evidence. It appears that you may not understand the concept of evidence. Christian creationists have to keep themselves ignorant of that concept. It looks as if that is the case for Islam as well.

A!so you are making a gross error in assuming that if one accepts reality that one has to be an atheist. That is not the case. There are countless Christians and even Muslims that accept the theory of evolution. You should not be so quick to insult others of your own faith.



Again, simply claiming that there had to be a creator is not very convincing.

The fact that all of the scientific evidence out there tells us that we are apes does not deny the existence of a God. It only tells us how that God, if he exists, created the universe that we live in.

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Evolution is behavior after experiments creatures, as if they were living primitive and then making houses and then buildings and cars

The evolution that happens to human bodies is called adaptation
Organisms adapt to the environment in which they live and is not called evolution


about GOD
I see stars, dynamic movement, rain, mountains and things that have been arranged for the twins of humanity and their needs

This is for me a proof of a maker

There is nothing before the first manufacturer (the greater)

we start from scratch (zero) as human beings in search of gold or anything we need because there are others in beings with us that we benefit from.

But all existence is impossible to start zero, from where will the exist will begging

j1i said:

Evolution is something about creatures, as if they were living primitive and then making houses and then buildings and cars

The evolution that happens to human bodies is called adaptation
Organisms adapt to the environment in which they live and is not called evolution

I see stars, dynamic movement, rain, mountains and things that have been arranged for the twins of humanity and their needs

This is for me a proof of a maker

There is nothing before the first manufacturer (the greater)

we start from scratch (zero) as human beings in search of gold or anything we need because there are others in beings with us that we benefit from.

But all existence is impossible to start zero, from where will the exist will begging

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Sorry, all you have is an ad hoc explanation that "proves" nothing. You should try to learn what is and what is not evidence. In the sciences there is a very clear definition of evidence. It was made partially because people tend to be irrational at times and deny evidence. Once you understand it you will see that there is only scientific evidence for evolution and none for a creator or creationism.

Would you care to learn?

Right now you have no clue as to what evolution is. But until you learn the basics your religious beliefs will get in the way of knowledge.

j1i said:

Evolution is behavior after experiments creatures, as if they were living primitive and then making houses and then buildings and cars

The evolution that happens to human bodies is called adaptation
Organisms adapt to the environment in which they live and is not called evolution

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Why are you talking about something you quite obviously know nothing about?

j1i said:

about GOD
I see stars, dynamic movement, rain, mountains and things that have been arranged for the twins of humanity and their needs

This is for me a proof of a maker

Click to expand...

Reminds me of this:

ecco said:

I have no desire to learn more about your religious beliefs from you.

Your above comment proves that you do not understand the basics of science.

I believe you are old enough to have been exposed to science. Therefore, you should consider the true meaning of your comment: "a person's desire to learn". You obviously have no desire to learn.

I'll repeat, your fault was that you don't even understand basic science.
People's reliance on and belief in religions causes scientific ignorance. Ignorance of science is harmful to civilization.

Case in point:
The World's First Anti-Vax Fatwa Has Been Issued. Here's What It Did
For the 225 million Muslims who call Indonesia’s 17,500 islands home, the supreme authority on religious affairs is the Indonesian Ulama Council, or the MUI. So when the central MUI issued a fatwa last August backing up a regional council’s decision that the measles and rubella (MR) vaccine was considered haram, or forbidden, many conservative families across the archipelago refused to vaccinate.

The reason was that the innoculation contained elements derived from pigs, and the fatwa — a ruling on a point of Islamic law — earned the dubious accolade of being the first known in the world to be issued against a vaccine.​

Ignorance!

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If I am I carry a Muslim faith
What is my fault with the behaviour of a stupid Muslims
You are actually treating people according to their religious affiliation and this is wrong
and this is what quran said
173 He has forbidden you carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and what was dedicated to other than Allah. But if anyone is compelled, without desiring or exceeding, he commits no sin. Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
It also shows your lack of knowledge

Science is incapable of proving the theory of evolution and currency has two sides (between scientists who deny it and scientists who believe in it) and they all have degrees.

This is the last response with you and thank you
I want to talk to other people
With sincere respect and appreciation

j1i said:

Evolution is behavior after experiments creatures, as if they were living primitive and then making houses and then buildings and cars

The evolution that happens to human bodies is called adaptation
Organisms adapt to the environment in which they live and is not called evolution


about GOD
I see stars, dynamic movement, rain, mountains and things that have been arranged for the twins of humanity and their needs

This is for me a proof of a maker

There is nothing before the first manufacturer (the greater)

we start from scratch (zero) as human beings in search of gold or anything we need because there are others in beings with us that we benefit from.

But all existence is impossible to start zero, from where will the exist will begging

Click to expand...

I am not sure what this is. It is not science, biology or evolution.

The adaptation that is evolution does not occur within an individual. It is change over generations. What you are calling adaptation in an individual is physiological versatility like acclimating to a new climate. That former is the result in a change in the genes. The latter does not result from a change in genes that can be passed on, but is the plasticity of the physiology.

The rest of your post is just argument from incredulity. You see things, but those things you see are the result of what you want to see and not something that another might independently see. They are subjective to you.

j1i said:

If I am I carry a Muslim faith
What is my fault with the behaviour of a stupid Muslims
You are actually treating people according to their religious affiliation and this is wrong
and this is what quran said
173 He has forbidden you carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and what was dedicated to other than Allah. But if anyone is compelled, without desiring or exceeding, he commits no sin. Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
It also shows your lack of knowledge

Science is incapable of proving the theory of evolution and currency has two sides (between scientists who deny it and scientists who believe in it) and they all have degrees.

This is the last response with you and thank you
I want to talk to other people
With sincere respect and appreciation

Click to expand...

Science is incapable of proving any theory. Science cannot prove what gravity is. But evolution, gravity, germ theory all are the best explanations for the evidence. They are contingent on new evidence that might improve the explanation or lead to the rejection of the old explanation.

Religion does not have that flexibility, tolerance or wisdom.

j1i said:

If I am I carry a Muslim faith
What is my fault with the behaviour of a stupid Muslims
You are actually treating people according to their religious affiliation and this is wrong
and this is what quran said
173 He has forbidden you carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and what was dedicated to other than Allah. But if anyone is compelled, without desiring or exceeding, he commits no sin. Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
It also shows your lack of knowledge

Science is incapable of proving the theory of evolution and currency has two sides (between scientists who deny it and scientists who believe in it) and they all have degrees.

This is the last response with you and thank you
I want to talk to other people
With sincere respect and appreciation

Click to expand...

Not all Muslims make the same errors that you do. One can accept the sciences and still be a Muslim. People realize that Mohammad did not know everything. I don't know everything, you don't know everything, but one thing we do know is that knowledge accumulates over time. As a result all of us can know some things that were not known in the past.

j1i said:

Science is incapable of proving the theory of evolution

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In science, we use the term "theory" in a different way than what's typically found in informal discussion, namely that it is a collection of hypotheses, theorems, and axioms that all relate to one subject, such as "gravitational theory" and "continental drift theory", which have been well established as real events that are still happening as we converse. Thus, the same is true with "evolutionary theory".