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Did Muhammad authored the Quran?

Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
When you read about the history of Muhammad and Islam inevitably you are going to stop at certain points, scratch your head and think, wait a minute, that doesn't seem right.
That doesn't seem, right? or should I have said that doesn't seem convincing?
It is my understanding that Muhammad received the revelations from an unidentified voice while in the cave.
Muhammad didn't know who was the one giving him the revelations and the voice giving the revelations didn't identify himself.
Muhammad told Khadijah about it and both told what had happened to Khadijah's cousin Wahraka ibn Nawfaal.
Wahraka ibn Nawfaal was a converted Christian so obviously he knew a lot about Christianity and the Gospels. He knew about the Christian "Angel Gabriel".
Basically Wahraka ibn Nawfaal put in Muhammad's head that he was a prophet, that the one giving him the revelations was Angel Gabriel and that the revelations were from Allah.
Is it possible that Muhammad took advantage of the situation and ran with it?
Is it possible that Muhammad is the real author of the Quran?
There are many revelations that are very suspicious and seem to be addressed with the sole purpose of benefitting Muhammad.
Why didn't Angel Gabriel identified himself and explained the revelations were from Allah?
Anyway, this is all my personal thinking and my personal reasons why I have a problem believing in Islam.
 
leov

leov

Well-Known Member
Raymann said:
When you read about the history of Muhammad and Islam inevitably you are going to stop at certain points, scratch your head and think, wait a minute, that doesn't seem right.
That doesn't seem, right? or should I have said that doesn't seem convincing?
It is my understanding that Muhammad received the revelations from an unidentified voice while in the cave.
Muhammad didn't know who was the one giving him the revelations and the voice giving the revelations didn't identify himself.
Muhammad told Khadijah about it and both told what had happened to Khadijah's cousin Wahraka ibn Nawfaal.
Wahraka ibn Nawfaal was a converted Christian so obviously he knew a lot about Christianity and the Gospels. He knew about the Christian "Angel Gabriel".
Basically Wahraka ibn Nawfaal put in Muhammad's head that he was a prophet, that the one giving him the revelations was Angel Gabriel and that the revelations were from Allah.
Is it possible that Muhammad took advantage of the situation and ran with it?
Is it possible that Muhammad is the real author of the Quran?
There are many revelations that are very suspicious and seem to be addressed with the sole purpose of benefitting Muhammad.
Why didn't Angel Gabriel identified himself and explained the revelations were from Allah?
Anyway, this is all my personal thinking and my personal reasons why I have a problem believing in Islam.
Click to expand...
it took a few hundred years to complete Koran. I think that "the Cow" was original part. I think the situation was similar to what happened to Abraham and Paul - a revelation. That area was where many Christian heretics, Gnostics of all colors , e.t.c. escaped Roman persecutions.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
Wasp said:
No. He could not have known the facts in the Qur'an.
Click to expand...
He didn't need to know everything, he was a merchant, warlord, prophet and was always on the move so he could easily collect information on the run and then release it as revelations.
The Bible was written 600 years before the Quran and of course, was entirely written by men and it is very impressive as well. I don't see anything in the Quran than men couldn't have known.
 
1

1213

Well-Known Member
Raymann said:
…
Wahraka ibn Nawfaal was a converted Christian so obviously he knew a lot about Christianity and the Gospels. He knew about the Christian "Angel Gabriel"....
Click to expand...

That would explain why Quran says we should believe what Jesus says:

…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah … …believe in Allah and His messengers...
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
Surah An-Nisa [4:171]

Only thing I wonder is, why don’t Muslims believe Jesus, even though that is what Quran says they should.
 
W

Wasp

Active Member
1213 said:
That would explain why Quran says we should believe what Jesus says:

…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah … …believe in Allah and His messengers...
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
Surah An-Nisa [4:171]

Only thing I wonder is, why don’t Muslims believe Jesus, even though that is what Quran says they should.
Click to expand...
:confused:, we believe in Jesus as a prophet.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
paarsurrey said:
No, it is impossible for a human being to Author Quran.
Click to expand...
Why?
I haven't found a single paragraph that couldn't have been thought by a human.
I have found many passages that many humans would have had written a lot better.
I have read many inconsistencies, many incorrect facts and as I mentioned before, there are many revelations that have the only purpose of helping Muhammad.
It's almost like Muhammad had a personal God.
Example:
The following revelation was released at a time when the prophet was a bit annoyed at the fact that people would come to his house unannounced to have some food and would stay long after the meals for some conversations.

Quran 33:53 O you who believe! (Do) not enter (the) houses (of) the Prophet except when permission is given to you for a meal, without awaiting its preparation. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, then disperse and not seeking to remain for a conversation. Indeed, that was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of (dismissing) you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask them (for) anything then ask them from behind a screen. That (is) purer for your hearts and their hearts. And not is for you that you trouble (the) Messenger (of) Allah and not that you should marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that is near Allah an enormity.

Why would Allah dedicate a revelation to solve one of Muhammad's personal problems?
Shouldn't the revelations be reserved for more important matters?
 
stvdv

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Raymann said:
Is it possible that Muhammad took advantage of the situation and ran with it?
Is it possible that Muhammad is the real author of the Quran?
There are many revelations that are very suspicious and seem to be addressed with the sole purpose of benefitting Muhammad.
Click to expand...
Spot on
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
1213 said:
That would explain why Quran says we should believe what Jesus says:

…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah … …believe in Allah and His messengers...
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
Surah An-Nisa [4:171]

Only thing I wonder is, why don’t Muslims believe Jesus, even though that is what Quran says they should.
Click to expand...

All the Muslims I have ever talked with believed in Jesus they just don't believe God had a human child... and they don't believe in original sin or blood sacrifice.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
Why?
I haven't found a single paragraph that couldn't have been thought by a human.
I have found many passages that many humans would have had written a lot better.
I have read many inconsistencies, many incorrect facts and as I mentioned before, there are many revelations that have the only purpose of helping Muhammad.
It's almost like Muhammad had a personal God.
Example:
The following revelation was released at a time when the prophet was a bit annoyed at the fact that people would come to his house unannounced to have some food and would stay long after the meals for some conversations.

Quran 33:53 O you who believe! (Do) not enter (the) houses (of) the Prophet except when permission is given to you for a meal, without awaiting its preparation. But when you are invited, then enter; and when you have eaten, then disperse and not seeking to remain for a conversation. Indeed, that was troubling the Prophet, and he is shy of (dismissing) you. But Allah is not shy of the truth. And when you ask them (for) anything then ask them from behind a screen. That (is) purer for your hearts and their hearts. And not is for you that you trouble (the) Messenger (of) Allah and not that you should marry his wives after him, ever. Indeed, that is near Allah an enormity.

Why would Allah dedicate a revelation to solve one of Muhammad's personal problems?
Shouldn't the revelations be reserved for more important matters?
Click to expand...

A simple question:
Has one tried to read Quran from cover to cover to form one's own experience with Quran*, please?

Regards
_________
*as envisaged in Posts #116 paarsurrey, Post #1219 paarsurrey
 
England my lionheart

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Raymann said:
When you read about the history of Muhammad and Islam inevitably you are going to stop at certain points, scratch your head and think, wait a minute, that doesn't seem right.
That doesn't seem, right? or should I have said that doesn't seem convincing?
It is my understanding that Muhammad received the revelations from an unidentified voice while in the cave.
Muhammad didn't know who was the one giving him the revelations and the voice giving the revelations didn't identify himself.
Muhammad told Khadijah about it and both told what had happened to Khadijah's cousin Wahraka ibn Nawfaal.
Wahraka ibn Nawfaal was a converted Christian so obviously he knew a lot about Christianity and the Gospels. He knew about the Christian "Angel Gabriel".
Basically Wahraka ibn Nawfaal put in Muhammad's head that he was a prophet, that the one giving him the revelations was Angel Gabriel and that the revelations were from Allah.
Is it possible that Muhammad took advantage of the situation and ran with it?
Is it possible that Muhammad is the real author of the Quran?
There are many revelations that are very suspicious and seem to be addressed with the sole purpose of benefitting Muhammad.
Why didn't Angel Gabriel identified himself and explained the revelations were from Allah?
Anyway, this is all my personal thinking and my personal reasons why I have a problem believing in Islam.
Click to expand...

Personally I think muhammed and the companions rode a gravy train,what a winner,war booty,slaves and land,what's not to like,who cares what he heard.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
sooda said:
Muhammed couldn't read and write.
Click to expand...
By saying he is the author I'm not saying he wrote it.
We know he didn't write it.
The Quran is a collection of revelations from Allah communicated through Angel Gabriel to Muhammad.
They were all transmitted orally.
For many years they continued to be transmitted along orally.
At one point they were collected and put together in what today we call the Quran.
All the verses in it are still attributed to Allah but the one who revealed them was Muhammad.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Raymann said:
By saying he is the author I'm not saying he wrote it.
We know he didn't write it.
The Quran is a collection of revelations from Allah communicated through Angel Gabriel to Muhammad.
They were all transmitted orally.
For many years they continued to be transmitted along orally.
At one point they were collected and put together in what today we call the Quran.
All the verses in it are still attributed to Allah but the one who revealed them was Muhammad.
Click to expand...

What's the problem? Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Saul etc all claimed revelations from God.
 
W

Wasp

Active Member
Raymann said:
By saying he is the author I'm not saying he wrote it.
We know he didn't write it.
The Quran is a collection of revelations from Allah communicated through Angel Gabriel to Muhammad.
They were all transmitted orally.
For many years they continued to be transmitted along orally.
At one point they were collected and put together in what today we call the Quran.
All the verses in it are still attributed to Allah but the one who revealed them was Muhammad.
Click to expand...
Allah revealed them.
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
Wasp said:
Allah revealed them.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough or you're just trying to be difficult?
They are attributed to Allah, communicated by Angel Gabriel to Muhammad and revealed to the humans around him by Muhammad.
Is that clear enough?
 
Raymann

Raymann

Active Member
sooda said:
What's the problem? Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, Saul etc all claimed revelations from God.
Click to expand...
None of them are part of this discussion.
We are challenging Muhammad on this thread.
Did you read post #8
What do you think about it?
 
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