Evidence For And Against Evolution

Subduction Zone · Sep 18, 2019

PruePhillip said:
None of my family were totally brain dead, but then, that's a matter of opinion.
But Fenwick speaks of people who are totally "flat lined" on brain scans, yet
recall things.
It's worth watching. We watch this video every now and then out of total
fascination. Keep an open mind - if you want to argue with a clinic psychologist
and neurologist who did some of the world's first studies into near death
experiences then go ahead - just make sure you are learned up.

Those are not "brain scans". You are talking about relatively crude instruments that only measure some of the stronger signals from the brain.

Once again, none of these people had incidents while being part of a brain study.

PruePhillip · Sep 18, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Those are not "brain scans". You are talking about relatively crude instruments that only measure some of the stronger signals from the brain.

Once again, none of these people had incidents while being part of a brain study.

Fenwick asks the question, does consciousness occur outside the brain?
I wouldn't argue with him - it's his field, not mine.
I tell people if you want to see "real" paranormal then read a book about
twins.

Subduction Zone · Sep 18, 2019

PruePhillip said:
Fenwick asks the question, does consciousness occur outside the brain?
I wouldn't argue with him - it's his field, not mine.
I tell people if you want to see "real" paranormal then read a book about
twins.

Try to find a valid source. A video can be useful for instruction, but not so much for a debate. Without his full name one cannot even search him to see if he is who he says that he is. I have seen more than enough peer reviewed science that refutes your claim, but since all you did was to handwave in an argument I can just as easily dismiss it.

Dan From Smithville · Sep 18, 2019

tas8831 said:
As an aside, I am seeing more and more anti-vaccine kooks doubting the Germ Theory of disease...

Of course, they are eminently qualified to doubt the theory. Look at all the work in science they have never done nor read about. These are kooks that think exposing children to dangerous diseases is less risky than vaccines.

SkepticThinker · Sep 18, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
And I said, you are sure there is no Creator.
Dont you call yourself an Atheist?
Or did the name Atheist have any other meaning such as the possibility of the existance of God.
Thats agnostic.

Look at you trying to tell atheists what they believe. And even after you've been corrected several times too.
It's amazing.

Dan From Smithville · Sep 18, 2019

PruePhillip said:
Fenwick asks the question, does consciousness occur outside the brain?
I wouldn't argue with him - it's his field, not mine.
I tell people if you want to see "real" paranormal then read a book about
twins.

He does not know the answer anymore than the rest of us do. He has an hypothesis and some stories. You could have an hypothesis and some stories too.

SkepticThinker · Sep 18, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Now why would you say such a bad thing about me.
I believe in every thing science observed and described from nature.
I do not believe in Evolution, because it is still an unproven theory with a lot of lies concocted by atheists purely to deny God.
This is the only difference between you an I.
I do not believe in the fairy tale of evolution.
You know, the one that teaches the frog prince.
Ha, Ha, a frog that turned into a man.
Now that is rubbish at best.
as for the age of the earth and universe, it is very old and I agree with science.
As for life, there is only concoctions by atheists to prove it older than 6 000 years.
To make it plain.
Evolution is not science and there is no evidence to support Evolution in science.

If you don't accept evolution, then you don't "believe in every thing science observed and described from nature." You just don't. Instead, you pick and choose only the science you like; the science that you think supports your religious beliefs. You discard the rest. The problem with that is that evolutionary theory is supported by evidence from multiple branches of science like chemistry, biology, paleobotany, zoology, geology, biogeography, genetics, and many others. So you are rejecting science. Lots of it.

SkepticThinker · Sep 18, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
I post it again.
Show me where I am wrong.
Pal, accept the truth.
Your Bible = On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection.
Your God = matter.
Your priest = Richard Dawkins.
Your church = the congregation of Atheists and agnostics.
Your creed = There is no God, does not matter what I see. Deny deny deny.
Your life hereafter, = fodder for plants.
your parents, = More ape than you.
Your children = more human than you.
Life, = not worth anything, we are just here.
Morals = not needed, humans are just another fungus.

This is atheism, and dont even attempt to change the meaning.

Easy. You are wrong on all counts.

Dan From Smithville · Sep 18, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Those are not "brain scans". You are talking about relatively crude instruments that only measure some of the stronger signals from the brain.

Once again, none of these people had incidents while being part of a brain study.

It is interesting to note that the people that will hop on board with a person that has an hypothesis about life after death and a handful of ambiguous observations, will reject hypotheses about the origin of life, even while the body of facts on that subject is continually growing.

viole · Sep 18, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
I post it again.
Show me where I am wrong.
Pal, accept the truth.
Your Bible = On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection.
Your God = matter.
Your priest = Richard Dawkins.
Your church = the congregation of Atheists and agnostics.
Your creed = There is no God, does not matter what I see. Deny deny deny.
Your life hereafter, = fodder for plants.
your parents, = More ape than you.
Your children = more human than you.
Life, = not worth anything, we are just here.
Morals = not needed, humans are just another fungus.

This is atheism, and dont even attempt to change the meaning.

Well, even if your caricature was right, we would still be much better off.

Look at you theists. You still have not decided yet whether God spawned a Son to take the weekend off for our sins, or if He has the head of an elephant, or similar other funny claims. Whether humans are all equal, or should be divided in castes. Whether God becomes a wafer, or the other way round, if a funny dressed male great ape whispers some latin words, or whether God can provide Heaven cab service to prophets in the form of winged horses, or allow His prophets to survive days in a big tuna. Or if He is one, three, many, all, whatever. Not to count all the differences between the various trees of all those different creeds.

Let me tell you. You look so totally confused that I would be unable to write a list like yours without writing a monster post containing a multitude of self contradicting claims.

Ciao

- viole

Dan From Smithville · Sep 18, 2019

SkepticThinker said:
Easy. You are wrong on all counts.

It is incredibly difficult to determine if the poster is for real or a Poe. I have been operating under the notion that he is a Poe, but I cannot rule out that the completely irrational view espoused is not real.

SkepticThinker · Sep 18, 2019

Dan From Smithville said:
It is incredibly difficult to determine if the poster is for real or a Poe. I have been operating under the notion that he is a Poe, but I cannot rule out that the completely irrational view espoused is not real.

I think I'm leaning that way too. It's all just a little too ... absurd.

Astrophile · Sep 18, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
as for the age of the earth and universe, it is very old and I agree with science.

Do you accept the evidence that the Chicxulub impact and the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary event happened about 65.5 million years ago?

SA Huguenot said:
As for life, there is only concoctions by atheists to prove it older than 6 000 years.

How old are the fossils (dinosaurs, Archaeopteryx, ammonites, synapsids, trilobites, etc.) that occur in rocks below the Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary layer?

Astrophile · Sep 18, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
And the only reason is that atheists scientists are indoctrinating the youth in school and universities with BS turning any normal person into an evolutionist.

I wish that were true. At my primary school religious (specifically Christian) education was the largest single subject. Hardly any science was taught, and even mathematics was only basic arithmetic. Even during my secondary school years (1959-67), I learnt most of my astronomy and geology from books that I borrowed from the public library rather than from formal teaching, and I knew very little about biology; my secondary school library didn't even have a copy of The Origin of Species.

When you were an atheist, what was the evidence that convinced you that there was no god, and why do you now think that that evidence was invalid? When you were investigating the world's religions, did you study any books or websites that took a critical view of the Bible?

Astrophile · Sep 18, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Try to find a valid source. A video can be useful for instruction, but not so much for a debate. Without his full name one cannot even search him to see if he is who he says that he is. I have seen more than enough peer reviewed science that refutes your claim, but since all you did was to handwave in an argument I can just as easily dismiss it.

According to Peter Fenwick (neuropsychologist) - Wikipedia , his full name is Peter Brooke Cadogan Fenwick, he was born on 25 May 1935, and he is 'a neuropsychiatrist and neurophysiologist who is known for his studies of epilepsy and end-of-life phenomena.'

Subduction Zone · Sep 18, 2019

Astrophile said:
According to Peter Fenwick (neuropsychologist) - Wikipedia , his full name is Peter Brooke Cadogan Fenwick, he was born on 25 May 1935, and he is 'a neuropsychiatrist and neurophysiologist who is known for his studies of epilepsy and end-of-life phenomena.'

Thank you. When it comes to any discipline there are going to be some outliers. From that article it does not appear that he is taken to seriously in the field. To quote From the article:

Robert Todd Carroll has written that Fenwick has made metaphysical assumptions and dismissed possible psychological and physiological explanations for near-death experiences.[20]

That is not a proper approach to a topic, ignoring natural explanations is almost always a fail.

YoursTrue · Sep 19, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
I don't see why you think that one species of animals sometimes prays to a made up being to be significant.

Animals usually try to stay alive when threatened. But! -- interestingly, the Bible book of Job brings out that an animal like the horse is unafraid even as it faces the sword and charges into battle.
Yet people are the only ones (known) to pray to be delivered from death, or to win a war. Or to survive a war or attack. The magnum quantity of difference between brain consciousness is vast beyond measure, between that of animal thinking and human thinking. No amount of evolution can make up for it. You can't make that up.

From the book of Job 39:19-22

Do you give strength to the horse
or adorn his neck with a mane?
Do you make him leap like a locust,
striking terror with his proud snorting?
He paws in the valley and rejoices in his strength;
he charges into battle.
He laughs at fear, frightened of nothing;
he does not turn back from the sword.

(Men may pray to be delivered from death; animals do not.)

YoursTrue · Sep 19, 2019

PruePhillip said:
Probably the only studies I know of which look at "what happens" at the time of
death (let's call it the 'pre-death experience' is by a clinical psychologist and
neurologist called Peter Fenwick)

It kind of eerie. Three of the seven members of my family have encountered
these experiences. I like what he has to say about people having experiences
or dreams or whatever WHILE THEY ARE 100% BRAIN DEAD.

Is that afterlife a "lie"
That's a big call. How do YOU know?

A recent article I read stated that the body moves after death because -- some enzymes or gasses are dissipating--decomposing . Ligaments dry out, causing bones to move. And that makes sense.
Human corpses keep moving for over a year after death, scientist says
But the Bible offers a hope of a resurrection, that is, from death to life. Eventually the body in the flesh stops moving at death -- it becomes liquid and gassy for a while. And then virtually disintegrates. As God told Adam, from dust you are, and to dust you will return.
Genesis 3:19 -
By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.

YoursTrue · Sep 19, 2019

tas8831 said:
Aside from your mere belief, what evidence do you have?

Do you think your bible-based, non-scientific belief is equivalent to evidence-backed hypotheses and such?

I am speaking of one thing -- the huge differences in cognitive ability between humans and any other form of life, especially in the thinking process about death.
Again, it's similar to the evidence that the sun is hot. Apes and dogs do not have written documentary reflecting their thoughts and history so as to transmit to others. Only humans do. And, there is evidence that humans pray and are thinking of death on a fairly regular basis. There is no evidence to prove currently or in the past that animals have that fear expressed throughout their lifetime built in on a long term basis. We know many animals have instinctive fear at the evident imminent presentation of being killed. But there is nothing whatsoever to suggest that they think about death until the spectre of sudden death may be imposed upon them in many instances. The evidence is similar to that of concluding that the sun is hot.

Subduction Zone · Sep 19, 2019

YoursTrue said:
Animals usually try to stay alive when threatened. But! -- interestingly, the Bible book of Job brings out that an animal like the horse is unafraid even as it faces the sword and charges into battle.
Yet people are the only ones (known) to pray to be delivered from death, or to win a war. Or to survive a war or attack. The magnum quantity of difference between brain consciousness is vast beyond measure, between that of animal thinking and human thinking. No amount of evolution can make up for it. You can't make that up.

From the book of Job 39:19-22

Do you give strength to the horse
or adorn his neck with a mane?
Do you make him leap like a locust,
striking terror with his proud snorting?
He paws in the valley and rejoices in his strength;
he charges into battle.
He laughs at fear, frightened of nothing;
he does not turn back from the sword.

(Men may pray to be delivered from death; animals do not.)

Why do you believe that nonsense? You are only digging the hole deeper.

Evidence For And Against Evolution

Veteran Member

Well-Known Member

Veteran Member

Recently discovered my planet of origin.

Veteran Member

Recently discovered my planet of origin.

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Recently discovered my planet of origin.

Ontological Naturalist

Recently discovered my planet of origin.

Veteran Member

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Veteran Member

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)

Veteran Member