• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus' Divinity and the Literalist Dilemma

Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
Brother. No science has proven that the first man predated Adam like you portray.
Click to expand...

If you want to be pedantic, I was not referring to 'the first man' in a literal sense. I was trying to point out, using simple terms that creationists might understand, that modern humans predate the literalist Adam by millenia.
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
If you want to be pedantic, I was not referring to 'the first man' in a literal sense. I was trying to point out, using simple terms that creationists might understand, that modern humans predate the literalist Adam by millenia.
Click to expand...

Well. What if this Adam character was not a man the way he is portrayed in the books but the first human or the first human society of what ever number of people?

Like the genetic Adam? After all, Adam means earth or red.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
firedragon said:
Well. What if this Adam character was not a man the way he is portrayed in the books but the first human or the first human society of what ever number of people?

Like the genetic Adam? After all, Adam means earth or red.
Click to expand...

Jesus believed he was a real man and that is the point of this thread. If you want to argue hypotheticals, start another thread.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
Jesus believed he was a real man and that is the point of this thread. If you want to argue hypotheticals, start another thread.
Click to expand...
Why don't you show that humans predated adam, then give your definition of human.

Then, give the verses where Jesus talks about adam, then, correlate them.
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Desert Snake said:
Why don't you show that humans predated adam, then give your definition of human.

Then, give the verses where Jesus talks about adam, then, correlate them.
Click to expand...

My definition is that human = homo-sapien. About 300,000 years old. Homo sapiens

Matthew 19:44 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
 
Spartan

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Wandering Monk said:
Christians believe that Jesus is God and that God knows all.
Since Jesus believed that Adam was the first man, Adam was truly the first man.
​
Now evolutionary biology and genetics show that the first man predated Adam by hundreds of thousands of years, the implications for the belief that Jesus is God are:

God doesn't really know all, or
Jesus was not God because he erred about Adam. His belief in Adam as the first man WOULD however be perfectly in line with first century Jewish beliefs.​
Click to expand...

Have you ever read the Bible?

The Deity of Jesus Christ in Scripture

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).
 
Wandering Monk

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Spartan said:
Have you ever read the Bible?

The Deity of Jesus Christ in Scripture

1. Jesus existed in the beginning (John 1:1; Philip 2:6; Rev. 19:13; Micah 5:2).
2. He was with God (John 1:1).
3. He is God, the Son (John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Heb. 1:8, 10; I John 5:20).
4. He is God manifest in the flesh (John 20:28; I Tim. 3:16; Col. 2:9; Acts 20:28; Heb. 1:8).
5. He is God foretold (Isaiah 9:6; Psalm 45:6).
6. He is Immanuel, God with us (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23).
7. He is the true God (I John 5:20 with Titus 2:13; Romans 9:5).
8. He is the great God (Titus 2:13).
9. He is God our Savior (II Peter 1:1).
10. He existed in the form of God before His incarnation and was equal with God the Father (Philippians 2:5-7)
11. He is the only wise God (Jude 25).
12. He is omnipotent over disease. (Matthew 8:1-4; Luke 4:39)
13. He is omnipotent over demons. (Matthew 8:16-17; Luke 4:35)
14. He is omnipotent over nature. ((Matthew 8:26)
15. He is omnipotent over death. (Luke 7:14-15; John 11:25)
16. He is omniscient, knowing the hearts of the Pharisees. (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:22; 6:8; 7:39-40)
17. He knew the thoughts of the scribes. (Matthew 9:3-4)
18. He knew the history of the Samaritan woman. (John 4:24)
19. He is omnipresent. (Matthew 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; 14:20)
20. He was worshiped as God by the angels (Hebrews 1:6); worshiped as God by the wise men (Matthew 2:2); worshiped as God by the shepherds (Luke 2:15); worshiped as God by a ruler (Matthew 9:18); worshiped as God by Thomas (John 20:28); worshiped as God by the apostles (Matthew 14:33;28:9)
21. He forgives sins. (Mark 2:5)
22. He saves (only God saves). Matthew 18:11; John 10:28).
23. He judges. (John 5:22)
24. Paul, Peter, Jude, James, and John called Him God. (Galatians 2:20; 1 Peter 3:22; Jude 25; James 2:1; I John 5:20; Revelation 1:18; 19:16)
25. He is God’s Son, who was sent to bring us eternal life. (John 3:16)
26. He arose from death in the flesh (John 20:26-28; Luke 24:39-43; I John 4:2-3).
27. One with the Father (John 10:30).
Click to expand...

Genetics demonstrates that there was no first man 6000 years ago. Jesus was wrong. Now what?
 
firedragon

firedragon

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
Jesus believed he was a real man and that is the point of this thread. If you want to argue hypotheticals, start another thread.
Click to expand...

Like the genetic Adam? After all, Adam means earth or red.[/QUOTE]

I thought the point of the opening post was about Adam mainly.

Alright. No problem.
 
Spartan

Spartan

Well-Known Member
Wandering Monk said:
It's nice being able to invoke magic isn't it? No burden of proof.
Click to expand...

Well, the magic is yours being supposedly all-knowing and sapient to the point you're able to discern it isn't true.

The point is, according to Genesis, man was to be made in God's likeness and image, so the first man could well have been Adam with an eternal spirit.

Get a new dog.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Wandering Monk said:
My definition is that human = homo-sapien. About 300,000 years old. Homo sapiens

Matthew 19:44 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Click to expand...
Going by 'complete innerancy' of the greek language to english, you have a wacky rabbi who contradicts himself, and doesn't make any sense, in some verses. So, I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you don't want to consider more than one yeshuah, added verses, so forth, then your premise might be fine, it's just sort of an obscure argument. It isn't very literalistic, as the premise does allow even outside belief, adamu to mean first human,
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top