Muslim views on Jesus

exchemist · Sep 17, 2019

Jollybear said:
This means Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. It means he claimed to give his life as a ransome for our sins. He claimwd to resurrect. Muslims reject his claims.

Jesus claimed to be more then a prophet. Mathew 16:13-19

"When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”

They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven".

Muslims REJECT Jesus claim here. This isnt hard prometheus.

Yes, muslims DO reject the bible. What is the Muslim View of the Bible?

Muslims do not believe Jesus claim to be the Son of God, or the ransome for sin and the resurrection.

Jesus made it very clear that those who did not believe his claims, not muslims version of who jesus was, would be condemned.

John 3:18

"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

John 6:40

"For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

John 3:16

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Mark 10:45

"For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."

John 11:25-27

"Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die; and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. Do you believe this?”

“Yes, Lord,” she replied, “I believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

And theres more! But, i regress!

This seems to be just a long-winded way of saying that, unlike Jews and Muslims, Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. I think we all knew that.

Why is it so important you to be able to say they "reject" Jesus?

Pastek · Sep 17, 2019

exchemist said:
This seems to be just a long-winded way of saying that, unlike Jews and Muslims, Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. I think we all knew that.

But muslims too believe that Jesus was the Messiah

Wasp · Sep 17, 2019

Pastek said:
He didn't say he wanted to convert or have a profound analysis, we are not in the "Scriptural Debates" section.
He just asked for few passages to compare quickly with the Bible.

I had not idea he was in a hurry, sorry.

But you made it so complicated that he even didn't want to search for more.

Go ahead blame me for nothing.

What you are doing is the opposite of Islam :

The Prophet (pbuh) said:

“Religion is easy, and no one overburdens himself in his religion but he will be unable to continue in that way. So do not be extremists, but try to be near perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded. Gain strength by worshipping in the mornings and afternoons and during the last hours of the night.”

“The best of your religion is that which is easiest, the best of your religion is that which is easiest.”

Commentary on the hadeeth “No one overburdens himself in his religion but he will be unable to continue in that way” - Islam Question & Answer

"Facilitate religious matters to people and do not make things difficult."
(Bukhari)

And from Quran :

3.159 It is part of the mercy of Allah that you* deal gently with them. If you were severe or hardhearted, they would have broken away from you.
*Muhammad

These are not about studying the Quran.

I don't understand those muslims in forums who ask people to learn arabic, to read many times the Quran when they ask simple questions.
Islam is not a complicated religion.

I didn't ask him to do it. Obviously he isn't interested. I'm saying you can't understand the quran when you haven't read it.

The quran is a complicated book.

exchemist · Sep 17, 2019

Pastek said:
But muslims too believe that Jesus was the Messiah

Thank you for that: something I was not aware of. I don't think this is widely appreciated.

Pastek · Sep 17, 2019

Wasp said:
The quran is a complicated book.

Why is the Quran a complicated Book ? Can you explain me ?

Wasp · Sep 17, 2019

Pastek said:
Why is the Quran a complicated Book ? Can you explain me ?

Because it has content that one can go on studying all one's life and one will not understand everything they could with more time - and one cannot understand everything there is regardless of the time available.

Pastek · Sep 17, 2019

Wasp said:
Because it has content that one can go on studying all one's life and one will not understand everything they could with more time - and one cannot understand everything there is regardless of the time available.

Of course we can spend a lifetime studying a religion.

Still, if someone ask a simple question, don't tell him he has to study for ever.

Wasp · Sep 17, 2019

Pastek said:
Of course we can spend a lifetime studying a religion.

Still, if someone ask a simple question, don't tell him he has to study for ever.

It wasn't a question he asked that I responded to. He said he's collecting information. He should be collecting it from the quran. He probably isn't. That is a problem if he intends to learn the truth of things.

Muslims do spend a lifetime doing just that.

Terry Sampson · Sep 17, 2019

Wasp said:
He probably isn't.

And you'd probably be wrong. But, please, don't let your ignorance prevent you from making great leaps of imagination.

I have a pdf version [in English] of the Qur'an. And I have the epub version of Nasr's "The Study Qur'an":

Both have search engines. When I want to know where I can find the name of "Jesus" or the term "Holy Spirt" or just "Spirit", I plug in the word and voilà! those terms are highlighted for me and I can quickly go to each instance of their occurrence to find what the Qur'an itself says. The problem I had--which evoked my initial inquiry--was that I couldn't figure out what word to plug in in order find every instance in which Allah speaks to a person and uses the word "I". I could have entered "I" in the search engine, but that would have taken me to every "i" in the Qur'an, and that's the last route to answering my question that I wanted to take.

I have tools, on-line and off-line, and resources (digital and written) for finding any word I want in the Bible, in English, Hebrew, or Greek. And I have access to concordances which enable me to find those portions of the Bible which a common theme runs through. What I don't have is a tool, written or digital, off-line or on-line, that enables me to find all instances in the Qur'an in which Allah speaks to a human using the first pronoun singular: "I". Ergo, my question, which you were either unable or unwilling to answer, but which Pastek was kindly gave me something to at least start with. You could have easily, if you knew it to begin with, have said: The Qur'an records Allah's words directly to Moses and ... whoever else is similarly addressed in the Qur'an. So, either you knew it and were either withholding the information or you didn't know it. In either case, you were a useless resource to me.

TrueBeliever37 · Sep 17, 2019

Prometheus85 said:
Islam and Christianity are apart of the Abrahamic religions. All Abrahamic religions worship a single god

Just because you believe in one God, doesn't mean it is the same God. The name of the God they believe in is different. The instructions given in the religious books are different. Etc.

paarsurrey · Sep 17, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
Calm down. To compare the Qur'an's Allah and the Yahweh who spoke with Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah, somebody's going to have to look in the Bible someday, as well as in the Qur'an. I figured you wouldn't, so I looked for you. And I invited you to see if a Muslim would look in the Qur'an. You don't have to, of course. But until you know how the Qur'an describes Allah's interactions with humans and how the Bible describes Yahweh's interactions with humans, your claim that "A Muslim worships the same abrahamic god as hebrew and christian." is wishful thinking.

We Muslims don't believe that Issa son of Maryam (Mary) whom Christians say Jesus, he was a god or a son of god or his father was G-d, in physical and material sense. We don't believe:

in Trinity
or "original sin"
or that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross
or that Jesus atoned the sins of Christian
or that Gospels has been written by Issa (Jesus)
or that that he came alive from the physical dead
or that he ascended to heaven
or he sat on the right hand of G-d.

We Muslims believe Jesus was a human being and was a Messenger/Prophet of G-d.
Right, please?

Regards
_________________
[112:1]بِسۡمِ اللّٰہِ الرَّحۡمٰنِ الرَّحِیۡمِ﴿۱﴾
In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2]قُلۡ ہُوَ اللّٰہُ اَحَدٌ ۚ﴿۲﴾
Say, ‘He is Allah, the One;
[112:3]اَللّٰہُ الصَّمَدُ ۚ﴿۳﴾
‘Allah, the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4]لَمۡ یَلِدۡ ۬ۙ وَ لَمۡ یُوۡلَدۡ ۙ﴿۴﴾
‘He begets not, nor is He begotten;
[112:5]وَ لَمۡ یَکُنۡ لَّہٗ کُفُوًا اَحَدٌ ٪﴿۵﴾
‘And there is none like unto Him.’
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 112: Al-Ikhlas
The above is a whole chapter of Quran.

paarsurrey · Sep 17, 2019

ChristineM said:
A Muslim worships the same abrahamic god as hebrew and christian.

Jesus was a holy prophet/ messenger of god

G-d is only ONE,Moses and Jesus believed in ONENESS of G-d, the Judaism people are very close to Islam in the concept of G-d, the Christians concept is not based on Jesus belief of G-d. Modern Christianity has Pauline-Pagan-Christ concepts therefore they are far-off to Muslims.
Right, please?

Regards
________________
[5:74]لَقَدۡ کَفَرَ الَّذِیۡنَ قَالُوۡۤا اِنَّ اللّٰہَ ثَالِثُ ثَلٰثَۃٍ ۘ وَ مَا مِنۡ اِلٰہٍ اِلَّاۤ اِلٰہٌ وَّاحِدٌ ؕ وَ اِنۡ لَّمۡ یَنۡتَہُوۡا عَمَّا یَقُوۡلُوۡنَ لَیَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِیۡنَ کَفَرُوۡا مِنۡہُمۡ عَذَابٌ اَلِیۡمٌ ﴿۷۴﴾
They are surely disbelievers who say, ‘Allah is the third of three;’ there is no God but the One God. And if they do not desist from what they say, a grievous punishment shall surely befall those of them that disbelieve.
[5:75]اَفَلَا یَتُوۡبُوۡنَ اِلَی اللّٰہِ وَ یَسۡتَغۡفِرُوۡنَہٗ ؕ وَ اللّٰہُ غَفُوۡرٌ رَّحِیۡمٌ ﴿۷۵﴾
Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?
[5:75]اَفَلَا یَتُوۡبُوۡنَ اِلَی اللّٰہِ وَ یَسۡتَغۡفِرُوۡنَہٗ ؕ وَ اللّٰہُ غَفُوۡرٌ رَّحِیۡمٌ ﴿۷۵﴾
Will they not then turn to Allah and beg His forgiveness, while Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful?
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 5: Al-Ma'idah
If the Christians leave Trinity only then they can come near to the concept of G-d of Islam/Quran/Muhammad.

paarsurrey · Sep 17, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
Calm down. To compare the Qur'an's Allah and the Yahweh who spoke with Adam and Eve, Abraham, Moses, and Isaiah, somebody's going to have to look in the Bible someday, as well as in the Qur'an. I figured you wouldn't, so I looked for you. And I invited you to see if a Muslim would look in the Qur'an. You don't have to, of course. But until you know how the Qur'an describes Allah's interactions with humans and how the Bible describes Yahweh's interactions with humans, your claim that "A Muslim worships the same abrahamic god as hebrew and christian." is wishful thinking.

We believe Injeel the Word of G-d given to Issa which he did not record in writing or dictate it verbally.
The NT Gospels records only some sentences from Issa, not much from him.
Right, please?

Regards

paarsurrey · Sep 17, 2019

MikeDwight said:
Its only fair to this thread to make the arguments a Muslim makes. There's only One god, not a Triune, and if you think there's three pieces of a God, then you're one of those ancient polytheists, you're still a Roman/Greek Pagan, or even the Zoroastrians I guess. All those quotes of Jesus in the Quran must be a 1/4th sample, of course such fundamental difference must be some total misquote of Jesus in support of Mohammad 600 years later. All I ever look at is the Zoroastrian Persians and Byzantines had led an exhausting war with each other and the Mohammad followers out of Mecca took an opportunity in the 600's for the equal power of the middle-eastern persons whom felt oppressed by the Christian empire. Egypt, Armenia, Ethiopians, already weren't listening to the Creeds, Nicene, Apostle's, Chalcedonian, or the Emperor's announcements, so no telling how that would have panned out otherwise.

"There's only One god, not a Triune, and if you think there's three pieces of a God, then you're one of those ancient polytheists, you're still a Roman/Greek Pagan,"

I get from our friend @MikeDwight (who is a Presbyterian) that he does not believe in Trinity, so he comes very close to the concept of G-d of Islam/Quran/Muhammad. Likewise all such Christians denomination who don't believe in Trinity they become very close to the concept of G-d of Islam/Quran/Muhammad like the Judaism people or Jews are. Right, please?

Regards

paarsurrey · Sep 17, 2019

MikeDwight said:
Its only fair to this thread to make the arguments a Muslim makes. There's only One god, not a Triune, and if you think there's three pieces of a God, then you're one of those ancient polytheists, you're still a Roman/Greek Pagan, or even the Zoroastrians I guess. All those quotes of Jesus in the Quran must be a 1/4th sample, of course such fundamental difference must be some total misquote of Jesus in support of Mohammad 600 years later. All I ever look at is the Zoroastrian Persians and Byzantines had led an exhausting war with each other and the Mohammad followers out of Mecca took an opportunity in the 600's for the equal power of the middle-eastern persons whom felt oppressed by the Christian empire. Egypt, Armenia, Ethiopians, already weren't listening to the Creeds, Nicene, Apostle's, Chalcedonian, or the Emperor's announcements, so no telling how that would have panned out otherwise.

"Its only fair to this thread to make the arguments a Muslim makes. There's only One god, not a Triune, and if you think there's three pieces of a God, then you're one of those ancient polytheists, you're still a Roman/Greek Pagan"

I agree with the above that I have colored in magenta.

Regards

Jollybear · Sep 17, 2019

exchemist said:
This seems to be just a long-winded way of saying that, unlike Jews and Muslims, Christians believe Jesus was the Messiah. I think we all knew that.

Why is it so important you to be able to say they "reject" Jesus?

Because Prometheus is trying to say Jesus does not require our faith in him.

paarsurrey · Sep 17, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
Aye, .. My brother and I were talking about that the other day, in the context of our mutual conversation about nephew and nieces. [Note: our father was, for close to 60 years, a Missouri Synod Lutheran-ordained minister]. My brother and I reflected on "the essentials of our mutual notions of the nature of Jesus". My brother calls it: "the acid test", Jesus - crucified, entombed, resurrected, and ascended.

I give one a "litmus test" perhaps it is the same as "the acid test" to know a Christian from a Muslim or a Muslim from a Christian:

"There is not a single Muslim in the world who believes:

that Jesus died on Cross, it is so clearly mentioned in Quran.
So, according to Muslims Jesus never needed to be resurrected from the dead as he never died on Cross in the first place.
Hence Jesus was never God as per Quran/Islam/Muhammad.

There is not a single Christian, in my knowledge, who does not believe:

that Jesus died a cursed death on Cross
for the sinful Christians;
later as per the Christian faith Jesus got resurrected to life from the dead,
and hence he was God
and he sat on the right hand of God, assuming all-power.

This is, to me, the superstitious building blocks of Christian faith which the Christians have been made to believe by Paul in Rome." and never believed by Issa/Jesus as he was not a Christian but a Jew.
Right, please?

Regards

Terry Sampson · Sep 17, 2019

paarsurrey said:
We Muslims don't believe that Issa son of Maryam (Mary) whom Christians say Jesus, he was a god or a son of god or his father was G-d, in physical and material sense. We don't believe:

in Trinity

or "original sin"

or that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross

or that Gospels has been written by Issa (Jesus)

or that that he came alive from the physical dead

or that he ascended to heaven

or he sat on the right hand of G-d.

We Muslims believe Jesus was a human being and was a Messenger/Prophet of G-d.

Ahhh, ... you forgot that the Qur'an also says that Jesus whom Muslims call Issa,:

Was born of the Virgin Mary and no father, similar to what what Christians believe;
Spoke when he was in the crib, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;
Made a bird out of clay and breathed into it, and--by Allah's leave--the bird flew away, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;
Healed the blind and lepers--by Allah's leave--and Jesus revived the dead--by Allah's leave, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;
Predicted a messenger who would come after him, called Ahmad, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;
Was promised by Allah that Allah would terminate Jesus' life and take Jesus to Himself, although there appears to be some disagreement among Muslim commentators regarding whether Allah took Jesus to Himself before Jesus died or after Jesus died, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel which says that;
And some commentators seem to believe that Jesus will return before the end of time, fight the Dajjāl (“Antichrist”), and "rule according to the Law of Muhammad until the world comes to an end." But Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel which says that.

By the way,

You don't believe that all Christian's actually believe that a belief in the Trinity or in "originial sin" is necessary to obtain God's favor and to enter into Heaven, do you? Because if you do, you're wrong. We Christians use those doctrines to sort ourselves into categories.
What Christian have you met who believes that Jesus wrote the Gospels or even one Gospel? Point me to him and I will arm-wrestle him personally.
As for Jesus' ascension to heaven, if he didn't ascend where do suppose Allah took him as Allah says he will do in Sura 3:55 "when He said, “O Jesus, I shall take thee and raise thee unto Me" See Endnote i in the attachment to this message.
As for whether Jesus died before Allah took him or never died, Nasr's commentary on 3:55 indicates that opinions among Muslims can and do differ. Too bad Muslims don't have a non-apocryphal Christian Scripture to help them come to agreement among themselves.

firedragon · Sep 17, 2019

Pastek said:
Why is the Quran a complicated Book ? Can you explain me ?

What do you mean "complicated book"?

Can you explain?

firedragon · Sep 17, 2019

Terry Sampson said:
Ahhh, ... you forgot that the Qur'an also says that Jesus whom Muslims call Issa,:

Was born of the Virgin Mary and no father, similar to what what Christians believe;

Spoke when he was in the crib, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;

Made a bird out of clay and breathed into it, and--by Allah's leave--the bird flew away, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;

Healed the blind and lepers--by Allah's leave--and Jesus revived the dead--by Allah's leave, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;

Predicted a messenger who would come after him, called Ahmad, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel that says that;

Was promised by Allah that Allah would terminate Jesus' life and take Jesus to Himself, although there appears to be some disagreement among Muslim commentators regarding whether Allah took Jesus to Himself before Jesus died or after Jesus died, but Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel which says that;

And some commentators seem to believe that Jesus will return before the end of time, fight the Dajjāl (“Antichrist”), and "rule according to the Law of Muhammad until the world comes to an end." But Muslims cannot point to any non-apocryphal gospel which says that.

By the way,

You don't believe that all Christian's actually believe that a belief in the Trinity or in "originial sin" is necessary to obtain God's favor and to enter into Heaven, do you? Because if you do, you're wrong. We Christians use those doctrines to sort ourselves into categories.

What Christian have you met who believes that Jesus wrote the Gospels or even one Gospel? Point me to him and I will arm-wrestle him personally.

As for Jesus' ascension to heaven, if he didn't ascend where do suppose Allah took him as Allah says he will do in Sura 3:55 "when He said, “O Jesus, I shall take thee and raise thee unto Me" See Endnote i in the attachment to this message.

As for whether Jesus died before Allah took him or never died, Nasr's commentary on 3:55 indicates that opinions among Muslims can and do differ. Too bad Muslims don't have a non-apocryphal Christian Scripture to help them come to agreement among themselves.

Why would a Muslim require a canonical scripture (or as you say non-apocryphal) when they believe the Quran is the revelation that God intended?

Do you understand the Question?

Muslim views on Jesus

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