• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Brexit in a nutshell

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
And the reason is because they campaign in illegal ways and employ militaristic weaponsgrade psyOps to manipulate voters by bombarding them with tailored and targetted fake news, generated specifically to exploit the psychological profile of the target.



An evil genius who's actively pursueing the destabilization of western secular democracies.



He is a criminal who belongs in jail.
I am relieved he stays in Rome, then.



"They see Putin as a Nationalist who believes in the underpinnings of the JudeoChristian WEST"

Nothing to add.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Just as the Remain campaign said prior to the Referendum - but it was called Project Fear and ridiculed

But it's true,there have been changes,from a trading block gradual changes have been made where we've had no say in any,the only way the EU is going is a federal state,this has been on british minds for years.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
But it's true,there have been changes,from a trading block gradual changes have been made where we've had no say in any,the only way the EU is going is a federal state,this has been on british minds for years.
You have a say as long as you are members.

Refusing to acknowledge the reality of trade with other countries might perhaps have an upside, but I certainly fail to see it.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
But it's true,there have been changes,from a trading block gradual changes have been made where we've had no say in any

Who's "we"? Because to my knowledge, the vast majority of such decisions in the EU is done by consensus of all members.

,the only way the EU is going is a federal state,this has been on british minds for years.

If you say so.

I'm a European first and a Belgian second. That's just how I roll, so we'll have other views right out the gates.
But I wonder: why would you consider a "united states of europe" a bad thing? And don't give me any nationalistic conceptual buzzwords filled mumbo jumbo about "patriotism" and the abstract notion of "sovereignty". I mean in a clear and practical way: what would be the problem with that?
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I'm a European first and a Belgian second. That's just how I roll, so we'll have other views right out the gates.
But I wonder: why would you consider a "united states of europe" a bad thing? And don't give me any nationalistic conceptual buzzwords filled mumbo jumbo about "patriotism" and the abstract notion of "sovereignty". I mean in a clear and practical way: what would be the problem with that?

Because we are different...and our diversity is our strength...But I am for preserving this diversity, by defending the single National identities.
I speak 5 European languages, that shows how much how I love Europe.
 
Last edited:

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Because we are different...and our diversity is our strength...But I am for preserving this diversity, by defending the single National identities.
I speak 5 European languages, that shows how much how love Europe.
National identities are fictional as well as worthless.

They neither need nor deserve protection.

Word has it that Italy, as such, has always been a very artificial construct. I am willing to bet that it still is.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
National identities are fictional as well as worthless.

They neither need nor deserve protection.

Word has it that Italy, as such, has always been a very artificial construct. I am willing to bet that it still is.
Well...from space you see a very defined boot-like peninsula. Very very natural construct.:rolleyes:;)
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Because we are different...and our diversity is our strength...

Belgium from border to border is like 250 km.
I can guarantee you that the people of the coast in West-flanders are vastly different from the people in Limburg at the other side of the country.

So different in fact that if someone from Limburg sees someone from west-flanders on TV, he won't be understanding a word he says without subtitles, while both supposedly speak dutch.

Let's also take a trip over the ocean.
Let's compare a typical citizen from mid texas with a typical citizen from mid california or new york.

I think the difference between both would be just as big, if not bigger, then the difference between an average italian and an average belgian.

Also, if our diversity is our strength.... then how is it an argument to not unite in a common entity?

But I am for preserving this diversity, by defending the single National identities.

Why do you think that Italian identiy can't be preserved in a "united states of europe"?
Would you say that there is no such thing as Texan identity as opposed to Nebraskan or Californian identity?

And those aren't even "real countries". "real" in the sense of not having a long history and all being pretty much rather artificial, as the line-out of their borders kind of illustrate. I don't think you'll find other "countries" with borders that exist out of straight lines primarily :)

I speak 5 European languages, that shows how much how love Europe.

Great.
I speak 3.

Still not clear what the practical downside would be of a "united states of europe".
 
It's not so much as what currently keeps them down as what will make them go up instead...



Not unless there are clear agreements concerning movement of people.
Otherwise, there will be extra checks and customs. These things cost money and require funding.
How is that going to be paid for, do you think?

Then there are the means to get to Italy. Most likely by plane.
You assume that airtravel from EU to the UK and back will remain unchanged after a chaotic brexit?

Here in Antwerp, there's a small airport that is already fearing for its future as it was going all-in on flights to and from the UK.

International flights are no problem if there are treaties concerning movements of goods and people with a customs union etc. No so much if there isn't.

Reciprocal travel agreements are very easy to conclude given both sides have incredibly strong incentives to reach a settlement and the settlement is not complex or open to much dispute like trade or customs deals may be.

UK travellers already need to clear customs as they aren't part of Schengen so would be practically unchanged except might need to go into the non-EU queue.

Could be sorted out in a day.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Who's "we"? Because to my knowledge, the vast majority of such decisions in the EU is done by consensus of all members.



If you say so.

I'm a European first and a Belgian second. That's just how I roll, so we'll have other views right out the gates.
But I wonder: why would you consider a "united states of europe" a bad thing? And don't give me any nationalistic conceptual buzzwords filled mumbo jumbo about "patriotism" and the abstract notion of "sovereignty". I mean in a clear and practical way: what would be the problem with that?

The problem is democracy plain and simple.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
You have a say as long as you are members.

Refusing to acknowledge the reality of trade with other countries might perhaps have an upside, but I certainly fail to see it.

For me I'd like to leave with a deal,if that should happen I'm really confident we'll be fine,without one it's going to be tough for both of us, particularly for the smaller states in the EU but we were actually ok before the EU or as it was "the common market" so we can again.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
For me I'd like to leave with a deal,if that should happen I'm really confident we'll be fine,

In the abstract that sounds fine. But you should be careful about what you wish for. There seems to be a lot of mystification about what is possible in such deals and what they would entail.

I don't think that it is just lack of luck, good will or competence that made it so difficult for such a deal to be approved this far. On the contrary, I strongly suspect that if those who voted Leave were well informed and discussed the matter among themselves they would be very much divided internally and might well settle for Remain.

Which, I suppose, is my attempt at being nice while telling you not to be too attached to unicorn hunting.

without one it's going to be tough for both of us, particularly for the smaller states in the EU but we were actually ok before the EU or as it was "the common market" so we can again.

Word has it that your economy was actually in terrible shape, and I see every indication that it is already taking a beating anew, but I suppose that it is your skin in the game. Mine is only indirectly affected.
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
In the abstract that sounds fine. But you should be careful about what you wish for. There seems to be a lot of mystification about what is possible in such deals and what they would entail.

I don't think that it is just lack of luck, good will or competence that made it so difficult for such a deal to be approved this far. On the contrary, I strongly suspect that if those who voted Leave were well informed and discussed the matter among themselves they would be very much divided internally and might well settle for Remain.

Which, I suppose, is my attempt at being nice while telling you not to be too attached to unicorn hunting.



Word has it that your economy was actually in terrible shape, and I see every indication that it is already taking a beating anew, but I suppose that it is your skin in the game. Mine is only indirectly affected.

Luis,our economy has been in bad shape since ww2,only the conservatives have made it look otherwise,boom followed by bust.
 
Top