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Contradictions in the Bible

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Right about what? I just asked you a question.

Or is this a way of you saying that the bible does NOT claim to be the word of God, but without actually saying so? Why not say it, then? There is no shame in it, surely?
I think I was clear in the OP in saying that I believe the Bible is the word of God. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I understood your reply to suggest that it is not. If that is indeed the case, I asked you where we can find the word of God. If however, I was mistaken and you do think it is the word of God, then we are in agreement.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I think I was clear in the OP in saying that I believe the Bible is the word of God. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I understood your reply to suggest that it is not. If that is indeed the case, I asked you where we can find the word of God. If however, I was mistaken and you do think it is the word of God, then we are in agreement.
Why even think that a "word of God" exists in a written form?
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
The bible is full of gross contradictions and Luke has no knowledge of the geography of Palestine.
Have you tried any of the suggestions I offered to clear up the the gross contradictions you see in the scriptures? You might be surprised how simple it can be. Not always though. Sometimes it takes a bit of work to get to the bottom of things, but, as you probably know, 2 Timothy 2:15 says we are workmen and workmen work.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I I was clear in my assertion that God's word is the truth .
I think that anyone who believes in a righteous God trusts that if and when God speaks, it is the truth. I think that you should consider what you are calling "God's truth" says, "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God." If anything written within your Bible isn't what God had said but you are calling it what God has said, beware!

23 Be careful that you do not forget the covenant of the LORD your God that He made with you; do not make an idol for yourselves in the form of anything He has forbidden you. 24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. Deuteronomy 4:23-24

So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 1 Corinthians 10:12

I do not have to believe that every word within is from The Lord God to believe that some of it is absolutely true.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
Surely you don't think Jehovah asked Satan to kill these persons in these instances... or is that your view?
(Matthew 10:28) And do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; rather, fear him who can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

(Hebrews 3:16, 17)
16 For who heard and yet provoked him to bitter anger? Was it not, in fact, all those who went out of Egypt under Moses? 17 Moreover, with whom did God become disgusted for 40 years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose dead bodies fell in the wilderness?

(Acts 5:1-11) . . .However, a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, sold some property. 2 But he secretly held back some of the price, with his wife’s knowledge, and he brought just a part of it and deposited it at the feet of the apostles. 3 But Peter said: “Ananias, why has Satan emboldened you to lie to the holy spirit and secretly hold back some of the price of the field? 4 As long as it remained with you, did it not remain yours? And after it was sold, was it not in your control? Why have you thought up such a deed as this in your heart? You have lied, not to men, but to God.” 5 On hearing these words, Ananias collapsed and died. And great fear came over all those who heard about it. 6 Then the younger men rose, wrapped him in cloths, carried him out, and buried him. 7 Now after an interval of about three hours his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 Peter said to her: “Tell me, did you two sell the field for so much?” She said: “Yes, for that amount.” 9 So Peter said to her: “Why did you two agree to make a test of the spirit of Jehovah? Look! The feet of those who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.” 10 Instantly she collapsed at his feet and died. When the young men came in, they found her dead and they carried her out and buried her alongside her husband. 11 So great fear came over the whole congregation and over all those hearing about these things.

(2 Samuel 6:6, 7) 6 But when they came to the threshing floor of Naʹcon, Uzzah thrust his hand out to the Ark of the true God and grabbed hold of it, for the cattle nearly upset it. 7 At that Jehovah’s anger blazed against Uzzah, and the true God struck him down there for his irreverent act, and he died there beside the Ark of the true God.

(Exodus 4:23) 23 I say to you, Send my son away so that he may serve me. But if you refuse to send him away, I am going to kill your son, your firstborn.”’”

(Exodus 11:4, 5) 4 Moses then said: “This is what Jehovah has said, ‘About midnight I am going out into the midst of Egypt, 5 and every firstborn in the land of Egypt will die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who is sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the slave girl who is working at the hand mill, and every firstborn of the livestock.

(Exodus 12:29, 30) 29 Then at midnight, Jehovah struck down every firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh who was sitting on his throne to the firstborn of the captive who was in the prison, and every firstborn of the animals. 30 Pharaoh got up that night along with all his servants and all the other Egyptians, and there was a great outcry among the Egyptians, because there was not a house where someone was not dead.

(Exodus 13:14-16) 14 “In case your son should ask you later on, ‘What does this mean?’ then you should say to him, ‘With a mighty hand Jehovah brought us out of Egypt, from the house of slavery. 15 When Pharaoh stubbornly refused to send us away, Jehovah killed every firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of man to the firstborn of beast. That is why I am sacrificing to Jehovah all the firstborn males, and I redeem every firstborn of my sons.’ 16 This must serve as a sign on your hand and as a headband on your forehead, for with a mighty hand Jehovah brought us out of Egypt.”

(Exodus 14:23-25) 23 The Egyptians pursued them, and all Pharaoh’s horses, his war chariots, and his cavalrymen began going after them into the midst of the sea. 24 During the morning watch, Jehovah looked at the camp of the Egyptians from within the pillar of fire and cloud, and he threw the camp of the Egyptians into confusion. 25 He kept taking wheels off their chariots so that they were driving them with difficulty, and the Egyptians were saying: “Let us flee from any contact with Israel, because Jehovah is fighting for them against the Egyptians.”

(Genesis 6:5-8) 5 Consequently, Jehovah saw that man’s wickedness was great on the earth and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only bad all the time. 6 Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened. 7 So Jehovah said: “I am going to wipe men whom I have created off the surface of the ground, man together with domestic animals, creeping animals, and flying creatures of the heavens, for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of Jehovah.

(Genesis 6:13) 13 After that God said to Noah: “I have decided to put an end to all flesh, because the earth is full of violence on account of them, so I am bringing them to ruin together with the earth.

(Genesis 7:21-24) 21 So all living creatures that were moving on the earth perished—the flying creatures, the domestic animals, the wild animals, the swarming creatures, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 So He wiped every living thing from the surface of the earth, including man, animals, creeping animals, and the flying creatures of the sky. They were all wiped off the earth; only Noah and those with him in the ark survived. 24 And the waters continued overwhelming the earth for 150 days.

(1 Samuel 6:19) 19 But God struck down the men of Beth-sheʹmesh, because they had looked upon the Ark of Jehovah. He struck down 50,070 among the people, and the people began mourning because Jehovah had struck them down with a great slaughter.

Some consider many of these accounts myths, and some feel they are far removed from a loving God, and don't belong in scripture. Are these your feelings as well?
What about when Jehovah gives an order to kill - whether he orders an angel, or men?
I guess I have trouble in clearly stating my case. What is it about the following statements makes you think I would suggest that God asked Satan to kill people?

"Hebrews says the one with the power of death is the devil. God is certainly not in the business of helping the devil exercise his power."

"Death is an enemy (1 Cor 15;26). God on the other hand is love. It was nor ever will be his desire that anybody should die."

"Death is in no way God's cup of tea."

"Could it be my free will decisions throughout life be a factor in my death? I'm thinking it does."​

What is it I said that would lead you to believe I think the scriptures are a myth?

Sometime I think that forum denizens are so keyed up for argument that they see things that simply aren't there. Or maybe, as I said, I have trouble in clearly stating my position. If that is the case, please help me understand exactly what it was that I said that led you to your conclusions. I just want to be my best in declaring God's word to the world, so I'm open to constructive criticism.
 

exchemist

Veteran Member
I think I was clear in the OP in saying that I believe the Bible is the word of God. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I understood your reply to suggest that it is not. If that is indeed the case, I asked you where we can find the word of God. If however, I was mistaken and you do think it is the word of God, then we are in agreement.
No, in the OP you stated the bible claims to be the truth, quoting the statement "thy word is truth" from St John's Gospel.

Various people, me included have pointed that statement does not say that at all. It can only be read that way if one first of all assumes that the bible is God's word. So I asked why you assume that. I don't know of anywhere in the bible that asserts or argues this, but since I am sure you know the bible better than I do, I asked you if you knew of anywhere. However apparently you don't.

From this it seems that the bible does not itself claim to be the truth. Whether it is "the truth" (whatever is meant by that) or not, then, and in what sense it, or parts of it, might be said to be, is something an individual must decide, based on factors outside scripture. I suggest to you those factors include: teaching from the church and from family and friends, reason, tradition, aesthetics and personal spiritual experience.

Many of us would say, after all this, that it seems reasonable to believe that the bible contains truth. The advantage of that approach is that it means we don't need to get hung up on particular contradictions. One can read it for the messages it contains, rather than trying to apply every word verbatim.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
I think that anyone who believes in a righteous God trusts that if and when God speaks, it is the truth. I think that you should consider what you are calling "God's truth" says, "For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God." If anything written within your Bible isn't what God had said but you are calling it what God has said, beware!

23 Be careful that you do not forget the covenant of the LORD your God that He made with you; do not make an idol for yourselves in the form of anything He has forbidden you. 24 For the LORD your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. Deuteronomy 4:23-24

So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall! 1 Corinthians 10:12

I do not have to believe that every word within is from The Lord God to believe that some of it is absolutely true.
God's covenant in Deuteronomy was with Israel. Thanks to Jesus' work, I (and you) have a much better deal with God. Just read the book of Hebrews to get the difference. In 1 Corinthians 10 Paul is clearly speaking about Israel. Read the first verses. It was not my father that did any of that. Paul is clearly talking about the Jews, and that includes verse 10. One of the things I mentioned in the OP was the importance of knowing to whom a particular scripture is written, Jew, Gentile, of Church of God. I also mentioned the importance of understanding the time period. After all, have not things changed since Jesus resurrected and ascended?

Rom 14:4,

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
This is what's happening today in this age of grace. What else do you think Jesus came for?
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Look up "hebrew idiom of permission."
I am aware that there is a difference between what can be attributed to God as direct and what God allows to happen, but that does not straighten out the contradictions that exist in the Bible. It does offer an explanation for them, though. They exist and God has allowed them to exist.
 

rrobs

Well-Known Member
No, in the OP you stated the bible claims to be the truth, quoting the statement "thy word is truth" from St John's Gospel.

Various people, me included have pointed that statement does not say that at all. It can only be read that way if one first of all assumes that the bible is God's word. So I asked why you assume that. I don't know of anywhere in the bible that asserts or argues this, but since I am sure you know the bible better than I do, I asked you if you knew of anywhere. However apparently you don't.

From this it seems that the bible does not itself claim to be the truth. Whether it is "the truth" (whatever is meant by that) or not, then, and in what sense it, or parts of it, might be said to be, is something an individual must decide, based on factors outside scripture. I suggest to you those factors include: teaching from the church and from family and friends, reason, tradition, aesthetics and personal spiritual experience.

Many of us would say, after all this, that it seems reasonable to believe that the bible contains truth. The advantage of that approach is that it means we don't need to get hung up on particular contradictions. One can read it for the messages it contains, rather than trying to apply every word verbatim.
How is my assuming the Bible is the word of God any different than assuming, "teaching from the church and from family and friends, reason, tradition, aesthetics and personal spiritual experience." is the word of God?

Ps 12:6,

The words of the LORD [are] pure words: [as] silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Seems as though God is very concerned about every word. If I see a contradiction in the scriptures it is very important I find out where the misunderstanding lies. I understand not everybody has the same respect for the integrity of God's word. As a former RC (12 years of religion classes, 5 days a week), I am fully aware of their somewhat lackadaisical attitude towards the Bible.
 
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rrobs

Well-Known Member
I am aware that there is a difference between what can be attributed to God as direct and what God allows to happen, but that does not straighten out the contradictions that exist in the Bible. It does offer an explanation for them, though. They exist and God has allowed them to exist.
Have you read the OP of this thread? I offered 5 specific ways that apparent contradictions can be eliminated. Maybe check it out. Let me know what you think.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
As a former RC (12 years of religion classes, 5 days a week), I am fully aware of their somewhat lackadaisical attitude towards the Bible.
At every mass, there are no fewer than three scripture readings, and Catholics are encouraged to read the Bible. The homily (sermon) must be a reflection on the scriptures as well. Also, in most Catholic churches there's mass said every day of the week, plus we are encouraged to pray and meditate on our own regularly.

Etc.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Have you read the OP of this thread? I offered 5 specific ways that apparent contradictions can be eliminated. Maybe check it out. Let me know what you think.

Let me fix this bit of arrogance ,,,

I offered 5 specific ways that apparent contradictions can be rationalized.

So much better. :)
 
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