wandering peacefully
Which way to the woods?
I've read enough of them to understand you don't understand it. But you keep trying to posit you do. It's clear enough to see it.
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Is atheism a belief?
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
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- atheism
PureX
Veteran Member
Well, when you can formulate a reasoned rebuttal, we'll chat.
wandering peacefully
Which way to the woods?
Sounds like a plan.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Below are my personal thoughts about your questions:1: So can a belief be an established fact as well as something we believe on faith?
2: If not, what level of evidence is required before a belief becomes fact?
3: FWIW I understand belief to broadly encompass what we believe to know with certainty as opposed to what we consider to be true regardless.
4: But I could be wrong!
1: Belief can be anything:
Belief "your mother is your mother (not the hot babe next door)". For me it is hear-say. For my father it might be a fact
Belief "E=mc2 is true or not". For me it is a belief, as I can not prove it to be true. For Einstein it is might have been an established fact
Belief "I believe that God exists". Spirituality, that means it's above the mind. So not an established fact IMO (fact is below mind)
2: Science is below the mind. Spirituality is above the mind (Wisdom from Sai Baba).
Evidence is below the mind. So never belief becomes fact by using evidence IMO. Wisdom is needed. Not knowledge.
I see it as a personal journey, because it's about "wisdom". Science and Spirituality can work together, but both keep their own place IMO.
And even when you are Self Realized (have the Wisdom), then the Saints/Wise say that "only in Silence the Truth can be conveyed"
3: FWIW I understand belief to broadly encompass what we believe to know with certainty as opposed to what we consider to be true regardless.
I remember that in the Church they also had something similar (from a Bible verse I think).
I make it a bit more simple:
Belief: Things that I do not know (not willing to bet my head on it)
Fact: Things that I do know (willing to bet my head on it)
I think the word "certainty" is misleading (if I am certain I am willing to bet my head on it). Better might be "To know with uncertainty"; don't you think?
I get the feeling, that religious people rather have more certainty, because with uncertainty you get into problems when debating
The Saints got the perfect solution = Silence (spiritual truth is beyond words)
But when you are enlightened you might "know with certainty", but we will never know as those who know keep silent
And when you are not enlightened I think it is not proper to say "know with certainty"; keep "certainty" for when you are enlightened
4: Sai Baba said "Come here, stay till you are enlightened, then you are useful for society" .... needless to say, not many stayed that long
Makes sense, don't you think? At least when we want to give others the correct answers to questions like "Does God exist"?
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JChnsc19
Member
Self Confidence is essential on the Spiritual Path
If I feel good, then it's good for me
But I don't impose my definition on Atheists
When imposing starts, things tend to get difficult
This is fabulous, I love this! And I won’t impose my theism definition on you nor will I demand you state anything or take any positions. You & I, we could actually have a good conversation. What a mature attitude
The chart is useful. Two criticisms though. As stated by another the word gnostic is strongly associated with an heretical sect of early Christianity. So even if I considered myself gnostic by the definition offered I wouldn’t identify as being gnostic. Second, many theists would consider its not possible to be 100% certain about the existence of God or gods. I’m not, but I wouldn’t consider myself agnostic.
It sounds as if you don’t like let alone love atheists. Your definition has a few technical difficulties too. I’ll leave that to others to bring you to account.
It's not difficult....... atheism is 'without' theism, or without a belief in a god. Humans have created gods since the beginning of our thousands of years of evolution, and a study of anthropology explains why. Each group of humans creates a unique 'god', and instills that idea in each newborns mind from the day it is born. Only members of the group can really 'know' about their 'god'......
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Thank you for the hint.
Indeed english is my second language, and I did not know the term "scare quotes"
Coincidentally when I was putting the quotes, my intention matched the term "scare quotes"
But as I did not understand the term, I wrongly said "scare tactics" in another reply
So thanks for pointing this out to me, because I have been using quotes many times before, which did not match "scare quotes" definition
I will do my best, to not make mistakes with scare quotes again.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No problem, and as I said, I do not expect a non-English speaker to understand all of our idioms. I know that I would be lost in whatever country you call home. Even with the best translating dictionary available. Idioms are often missed in those works.
And scare quotes can be handy when one wants to emphasize a quoted point. I myself do not know how they got that name. I do not think that it has to much to do with fear.
I acknowledged the error earlier.
I have my reasons.
That sounds like a combination of strong atheism and anti-theism.
Its useful to understand the different composition of religious adherents in a country such as the UAE (? Your country) and a Western country such as New Zealand (my country).
Religion in the United Arab Emirates (2005 census)
Islam (72%)
Christianity (12.6%)
Hinduism (6.6%)
Buddhism (2%)
Other religions (2.8%)
No religion (4%)
Religion in the United Arab Emirates - Wikipedia
Major religions in New Zealand, 2013 Census
Catholicism (12.61%)
Anglicanism (11.79%)
Presbyterianism (8.47%)
Other Christianity (15.14%)
Hinduism (2.11%)
Buddhism (1.50%)
Islam (1.18%)
Other religions (1.53%)
Undeclared (4.44%)
No religion (41.92%)
Religion in New Zealand - Wikipedia
We have 10 x the number no religion compared to the UAE and the UAE has 60 x the number of Muslims compared to NZ.
Your response reflects a cultural perspective that’s quite different from Westerners. Just something to think about.
As for polytheism, it involves believing in God Almighty and acknowledging it, but it also includes believing in a partner of God in his creation, creating, or providing, benefiting, or harming, and this is a decoy of Godhead, or a partner who is given some love and exalted worship, as God Almighty acted. (This is a worship trap).
The question of polytheism and the Christian view of God isn’t the topic of this thread but an important discussion to have elsewhere.
Reflecting on these two deviations, we find that in each of the sin and bad, which shows us their bad condition
with respect
As above, a response that reflects living in a predominantly Muslim country.
Thanks for your response
lukethethird
unknown member
Is atheism a belief?
I would say that atheism is more of a relief than a belief.
I would say that atheism is more of a relief than a belief.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is certainly true that almost every civilisation from early in human history until modern times has had some degree of theism. Therefore the argument that atheism is a negative response to theistic claims, has merit.
Whether or not each group of humans creates a unique god is debatable but off topic.
Thanks for your response.
I wonder if belief is being conflated with religion? Belief and religion are very different.
A Christian may attend church, have beliefs and practices in regards an historical Jesus but see God and other supernatural claims as being largely symbolic.
Christian atheism - Wikipedia
I know atheist Christians.
I suspect because Christian theology revolves around positive claims its difficult for Christians to engage constructively with negative non-theological counter claims.
Abstinence is an (a)sexual position. Thanks for affirming my beliefs about (a)theism.